• Carsonic

    So I accidentally found out the score last night, (I watch games on GamePass early Monday mornings) which meant that I got to sleep in a bit. But I did skim through until Simmons’ pick-six and then knowing it was going to get uglier from then on out, turned it off. Did McKenzie have another muff or fumble after that? Reddit seemed unhappy with him. I believe he has the skills to succeed in this league, despite his rookie troubles. I hope he is able to work through this and reach his potential.

    Also, just so sad about Trevor. Those long throws were frightfully long and even the short ones that were technically drops looked off-target. I’m fully reconciled to the need for a new QB. I don’t even know which guy I want as our backup next year.

    It just feels like this team is that game show about guys trying to climb slippery stairs. So much struggle, and every bit of success is met with catastrophe. Even a winning play like the D making a pick-six leaves you feeling exhausted and questioning whether it’s really worth it. I’ll still keep watching, though. There’s always Shelby Harris! (Plus other talented guys playing for the future, of course.)

    • Nick

      McKenzie retreated to the end zone and got safetied. This was insult to injury after the Broncos got a 3 and out after Adam Gase went full bushleague in calling for an onside kick while up by 24. I lost a lot of respect for him when he did that.

      • Brian

        McKenzie successfully, if not wisely, fielded a couple of punts for fair catches inside the 10. He later let one go, that one was also downed inside the ten. On the safety he fielded at about the 4, made an initial few steps to the right, then retreated and reversed field to the left, was stripped at the 1 for his 6th fumble/muff, which he managed to recover for the safety. For those efforts, he was still on the field for a punt return after the safety blunder. The special teams also committed penalties on a couple of fair catches, allowed several big punt returns, had a gunner go out of bounds for a penalty, had a Riley Dixon punt blocked after earlier narrowly avoiding another block. Given the gift of the Simmons INT and the penalty on stills, the special teams managed a delay of game on the kickoff from the 50 before an unsuccessful ‘surprise’ onsides kick was recovered by miami’s hands team. Gase then later showed how to execute a truly surprising onside kick!

        • Steven Searls

          In short, what we have come to expect from an Olivio coached unit.

      • Retreated and FUMBLED into the endzone, which he was lucky to recover for a safety instead of TD for Miami.

  • Nick

    Just crunched Sunday’s snaps and Leary’s percentage fell to 84.7%. He also fell from 101st to 108th leaguewide, and I think the 3rd/4th cutoff will be a little less than the top 100. He even got passed by another relevant CFA, Tony Jefferson (ARI->BAL). Looking better than the Broncos are going to get that 3rd round comp pick.

    • Royalwithcheese

      If Leary needs another week, that’s fine with me!

  • Forrest Trump

    At least up to the point of exhaustion, the defense has rallied, hung tough and largely played spirited and well of late. Should VJ get some points and credit for that?

    • Nick

      I don’t know how much credit Joseph should get, but anyone who thinks the Broncos are in some sort of guaranteed decline needs to acknowledge how well the defense is playing even while given ridiculously short fields to defend thanks to offense and special teams blunders.

  • The Color Orange

    I couldn’t believe it last week when people were arguing that the Broncos were going to win the next three because of the cupcakes on the schedule. It should be apparent to everyone by now that the Broncos ARE the cupcakes on the schedule.

    • People believed they were going to beat the Patriots.

      • T. Jensen

        We destroyed the cowboys who are a decent team. I think it took quite a while for me to come down off that high.

        • Steven Searls

          True. That was an outlier, though, as we now know. Also we played the Boys when they were missing Sean Lee.

          • T. Jensen

            Oh I know it was an outlier but it still set my expectations high and it’s taken awhile for me to lower then again.

            I know Lee played but I don’t remember him leaving. When did he leave the game?

  • Nick

    If there was ever a “good” time for a suspension…

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937681882875092992

    • gobroncos

      So he won’t go on IR? That’s a sneaky way to do it. It wastes a roster spot, but probably worth it at this point.

  • QDoc

    Broncos Wire kind of sums up how I feel at the moment…
    http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/12/03/denver-broncos-should-fire-vance-joseph/

    • RSH

      And replace him with who? That’s the problem. We are churning through head coaches faster than most people go through smartphones. Joseph still has three years remaining on his contract. If there was an experienced, disciplinarian in the mold of Bill Parcells available to hire, moving on from Joseph would make more sense.

      Changes in the front office are also needed before we see marked improvement from any coach we bring in here. Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave are both excellent offensive minds, but even they could not/cannot get results based on the limited quarterbacks, offensive line, and in some respects the skill positions, that they had/have to work with.

      • ohiobronco

        I can take or leave Joseph but changing coaching alone will not significantly change the situation. The offense needs to add 4-5 starting quality players.

      • Sparks

        By FO overhaul, are you calling for heads or a change in philosophies? If heads, who are you suggesting we fire?

        • RSH

          I think that John Elway will and should remain for a variety of reasons. He needs to make significant professional improvements, however. I think that Matt Russell (Director of Player Personnel), Tom Heckert (Senior Personnel Advisor), A.J. Durso (Director of Pro Personnel), Brian Stark (Director of College Scouting), and Jordan Dizon (Pro Scout) should all be dismissed. We need fresh ideas and a new philosophy in evaluating both free agent players and college prospects.

          • Nick

            I’m fine with smaller changes here and there, and Heckert is likely being phased into retirement at least partly on his volition. Can’t agree with canning Russell at this point though, that’s too big for my taste.

          • Sparks

            OK, so a total clearing out below Elway. I think it comes back to what you said above about replacing VJ. With who? Who are we replacing Russell et al with? I’m not saying there aren’t any people out there because there very well may be, but I’m wondering who. I agree that some new ideas/philosophies would be welcome. I think, as a group, we are naïve to think that we will build some offensive juggernaut without it coming at the expense of the defense, though. The goal, of course, is to strike that delicate balance to have both units operating efficiently and successfully. While we’re overhauling, they should start at ST’s.

            Kubiak is on that scouting department as well, isn’t he? I wonder if he could replace Russell and build a competent staff. If not, I’d have to seriously consider keeping Russell and moving on from the rest, unless there is a competent person able to move in and take his place. Unfortunately, I do not know FO staff near as well as players so I don’t know who that could be.

          • Royalwithcheese

            Not many options out there. Wade, Harbaugh, Pat Schurmur, Hue Jackson (if he’s canned), Ken Whisenhunt.

          • Yahmule

            I could see taking a broom to the personnel department. I think the lack of cohesiveness between them and the coaching staff should be examined at the very least. Using the 51st pick on a square peg like DeMarcus Walker when there were so many areas of need is inexcusable and a much bigger concern than the coach getting mixed up about the nine millionth lack of execution in a press conference.

  • Nick
  • CFD1983

    So what happened from last year till now on the offense, 2016, Okung, Garcia, Paridis, Schofield, Stephenson… Okung-Schofield to first place Chargers.. Bolles-Garcia-Paridis-Leary-Watson the new improved oline, we all knew Watson’s struggles before he came to the Broncos, Ty, needed more time and we should have continued to develope him, Schofield went from a stuggling Tackle to a first to first time Right Guard and played well with giving up the fewest sacks of any of our lineman in 2016
    Sambrelio to Atlanta we do not take time to develope players….hind sight is 20/20…

    • RSH

      Okung and Schofield are also playing for a much better quarterback this season. I am on record in opposition to cutting Schofield, but we cannot discount the fact that he and Okung are made much better with Phillip Rivers behind them than the quarterbacks the Broncos have been cycling through this season.

      • Nick

        The Broncos are also better off for letting Okung walk for the ridiculous type of contract that the Chargers gave him. And it’s not just for the 3rd round comp pick they could get*. Bolles is far from a finished product at this moment but he’s doing a decent enough job for a much cheaper price.

        (*I still also want the Chargers punished for tampering with Okung even if the Broncos were never going to re-sign him.)

    • Laces Out

      Just fyi chargers are 6-6 with a qb

    • cjfarls

      Letting Scho go was a dumb move IMO. Apparently they thought Barber/Stephenson were better, but I don’t know what film they were watching.

      Letting Sambrailo go for draft pick was fine IMO. He physically projects as a LT, and Bolles took his spot.

      I have no problem with letting Okung go for that contract either, though that is iffier (depends on who we think we would’ve drafted instead of Bolles – Engram maybe?). Short-term Okung, Engram and TS probably are better than Bolles, TS and 10million in cap space… but TS probably would make Okung look worse, and long-term, not sure if Okung/Engram justifies that money (even though I love Engram).

  • Nick

    Trump’s going to lose his shit and unleash another heavy Twitter rant if anyone on this list but himself is named. That’s like an all-star cast of people that piss him off.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937703363721998339

  • Royalwithcheese
    • Nick

      Fuck. They really need to kick the asses of IND and/or NYJ, I do not want to see this hold.

      • Yahmule

        Nah, just lose out and draft Darnold. I think Cleveland might draft Barkley number one and use Houston’s top five pick on a quarterback.

      • Royalwithcheese

        True incompetence. I don’t want to see them at the bottom, but I do like that no. 4 pick.

        • Sparks

          Last I saw they are in the #6 slot. Is it the #4 now?

          • Royalwithcheese

            That’s what Shefter said, but I’m pretty sure he was wrong. The ESPN model is based on what record they expect teams to have at the end of the season. Here’s the current order.

            http://www.tankathon.com/nfl

          • Sparks

            Thanks. Other than a select handful of players, the Broncos should be in line to get whomever they want. Hopefully, that pick will have an impact like #58 has. Fortunately, I think the only team a head of us who may on a QB watch is the Giants, if we end up going that route.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I have to believe the Browns will take a QB, though it’s possible they’ll go with Barkley (as Yahmule suggests). If they do that and Darnold and/or Rosen turn in to top-tier QBs, they will be skewered, and rightly so.

          • Sparks

            They’re getting beaten up everytime Wentz and/or Goff leads their team to another win now so you may be right. Moving on from Kizer so early seems a little premature but if they feel the right guy is there, I can see them doing that.

      • G Mik

        Winning does us no good. As much as I want this time to fight and end the embarrassing losing streak, it can only hurt us. I see no benefit in winning another game and would love to see some young guys get more playing time.

        • RSH

          Providing the death knell to Kansas City’s season in Week 17 will be tempting.

          • Nick

            But that would result in resurrecting the season of either the Raiders or Chargers. I’d much rather have the Chiefs make the playoffs (though of course I will root for the Broncos even if it wreck’s KC’s playoff hopes).

          • RSH

            I want to see Domata Peko throw a touchdown pass in that game.

          • G Mik

            oooooh, that is tempting. If it were between the 2nd overall pick and a win v KC, I might take #2 overall. Either way that is suuuuuper tempting. Chargers might run away with the thing though. I feel bad for McCoy.

  • RSH
    • Yahmule

      The last starting caliber quarterback the Broncos have been connected to was Kaepernick two summers ago and Elway expected him to play for half price.

      • G Mik

        Not true and misleading. Kaep was guaranteed the money. He was getting it one way or the other. Elway just didn’t want to pay what the Niners were already on the hook for at the time and wanted the burden to be shared. Let’s not act like shrewd cap management is unimportant.

        • Yahmule

          Kaepernick would have cost $15 million in 2015, which was less than Elway was ready to cough up for Osweiler. I’m not sure what’s all that shrewd about being willing to pay a vastly inferior quarterback more money.

    • Sparks

      He may have done well here, or he may have spent some time in the trainer’s room like all 3 of our QB’s have this year with our OL. My guess is he would have done well enough for us to compete for a playoff spot, especially in our surprisingly weak division and would have only kicked the can down the road another year on our QB problem. The guy is 38 so he certainly wouldn’t have been a long term option but merely a stopgap and some might still be under the delusion that PL can play but McCown being successfully has kept him on the bench.

      So, it may be a blessing that we were able to properly identify our QB’s issues this year as we roll into an offseason rife with quality FA starters (Cousins) or many quality prospects.

    • ohiobronco

      I would be ok with clearing out the QB room except for Kelly then bringing in a McCown/Keenum type and a high draft pick.

    • cjfarls

      I just really don’t have a problem with Elway’s QB moves this past year.
      We had 2 young kids both with potential… yes, they both ended up sucking. but throwing 5+million at a journeyman that we hoped would be worse than the 2 young kids seems like a questionable move.
      TS and PL didn’t work out. Doesn’t mean rolling the dice with them for pennies was the wrong call.

  • RSH
  • RSH

    This mock draft has the Broncos selecting Quenton Nelson with the fifth overall selection. http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/list/nfl-mock-draft-2018-giants-49ers-cowboys-packers-browns-broncos/8s93u7s2uace15atx0v9thfpk/slide/5

    In a weak top of the draft, offensive lineman always rise. Taking a guard in the top five looks crazy, but the Redskins don’t seem to regret Brandon Scherff. The Broncos will likely look to free agency to find their quarterback.

    • Sparks

      RWC was the first one to throw out the Cousins-Nelson combo. There’s a lot to like there. Talk about plugging two holes with that 1-2 punch. How much better would Bolles be after a year in the league and having a stud LG next to him?

      • Hank Mardukis

        How much is Cousins going to cost? Do you pay elite money to a good, but certainly not elite quarterback?

        • Sparks

          As with all things FA related, cost will be a factor. I think he could be had for $25M APY and that’s what you pay for good QB’s these days. Amirite Carr? If they got him on some kind of 5 year deal at that $25M APY, this year it would look high. In 3 year’s time, it would look much sweeter.

          • Hank Mardukis

            After the contract Stafford just signed I would think Cousins can ask for closer to $30 million a year and probably get it.

          • Sparks

            Maybe. Do you think Cousins is in Stafford’s league? If so, then maybe he’s worth $30M.

          • Hank Mardukis

            Cousins is already making $24 million this year (granted on a franchise tag) and he’s the number one quarterback in free agency. He’s going to cash in.

          • Sparks

            He’s certainly in an enviable position. Do you think he’s worth $25-30M? Would you like him as a target for the Broncos?

        • ohiobronco

          Considering that the odds even at the top of the draft are 50/50, a guy with three solid seasons of sample size is worth the investment if he is available.

        • Nick

          To me, the far bigger question for Cousins is the kind of guarantees he’s going to get. APY is meaningless if you can’t back it up with guarantees, as Osweiler learned the good way and Mike Glennon is going to learn the hard way. Cousins is going to want to get at least the first two years fully guaranteed, and to get a favorable cash structure in the first 3 years. A contract that gives a team an out after year 1 is very favorable to the team even if the APY goes nuts.

          • ohiobronco

            I think he is going to command a 3 year effective commitment. From the team perspective I don’t think that’s nearly the risk as the 2 year effective commitment Osweiler received. The worst case scenario is that you get Flacco’d and his play declines to a below average level while you are committed to paying him high end money. Even that is better than having nothing at all at QB.

        • Royalwithcheese

          Taking a look at the numbers, Cousins has been as good or better than Stafford the last three years. Rarely does a QB that good hit the market. Elway should be all in.

      • Sparks

        Also, I know G isn’t exactly a sexy pick, but at that high of a pick, you’d want to select a player that you insert into your lineup and forget about him for 10+ years. Nelson is one of those guys.

        • BlackKnigh

          This is slightly off topic – but the one huge hit on Siemian was one up the middle by a Charger DE. I am surprised he got up after that one. Having a top flight G might have made a difference on that play.

      • ohiobronco

        Barring the 34M third year franchise (a possibility), Cousins will chose where he plays. If he were to chose Denver I doubt they would/should turn him away. It would sure stabilize things and open some doors in the draft. Assuming he goes in a different direction, they are moving closer to a top 5 overall rookie every week.

    • Russ

      Elway seems incredibly averse to signing anyone for that kind of money. His history of signing FAs is to submit lowball offers with a hard sell that you take a discount if you want to play for one of the premier franchises in football. It seems against his MO to sign someone short of a healthy Andrew Luck for north of $25M. If the market is really $30M for Cousins I can’t see the Broncos outbid anyone. Not to mention they don’t have the cap space anyway.

      • RSH

        Good points, but Elway may have to radically change his mindset and modus operandi this offseason.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          I agree. I don’t expect he’ll just keep doing what he’s always done with the way this season has turned out. I could see him spending a little money to fix the QB and OL situation(s), considering he hasn’t had much luck in the bargain bin at those positions.

      • SteveS

        Well, except for that “premier franchises in football” phrase. Used to be, sure. Now, the talent cupboard is iffy at best, the GM would appear to be playing a bigger and bigger role in coaching decisions within an environment in which he’s a local hero; he’s also called his team “soft”. Ownership is an enormous question at this point. If I’m a coach or sought-after free agent, I’m not sure Denver is on the top of my list – and I say this with much regret and hang-wringing.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        OTC has them at an estimated $32.19M in space for 2018. They could add $11M to that number by cutting Talib; $4.5M by cutting CJ Anderson; and $4.8 by cutting Menelik Watson. That could bring them to as much as $52.5M in cap space.

        • Royalwithcheese

          And it’s all in how the contract is structured (as Nick has pointed out). Just looking at Stafford’s deal, his cap number in the first year was only $16.5M.

  • Nick

    I may reply in this subthread with more substantial news as it comes in.

    https://twitter.com/brettsmiley/status/937717366749913088

  • Nick
  • RSH
  • RSH
    • Nick

      Upon seeing the word “Unreal” at the end, John Fox recites Inigo Montoya’s response to the word inconceivable to Ian.

      • Russ

        ‘Unreal’ huh? I can’t imagine a scenario where he would have kept his job after this year. This should surprise no one.

  • Nick

    Smart to get rid of both now to give them a head start, as there’s extra time between hiring the GM and coach.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/937723072580345856

    • Yahmule

      The true villain.

      • Nick

        It would be interesting to find out how many of the 2011 Giants were brought in by Accorsi.

      • G Mik

        The decision to bench Eli came from Mara. Which is nuts as he made them take the fall. Anyway, if that is what you were thinking?

        • Yahmule

          I just think Reese has done a pretty mediocre job of drafting. The offensive line has been horrible forever and I laughed hard when he took Ereck Flowers in the top ten.

          • G Mik

            Got it and agree 100%. I was thinking the villain comment came from the decision to bench Eli for Geno Smith… which was truly a horse shit thing to do.

  • RSH
    • Jeremy

      So I’ll just throw it out, is McAadoo an upgrade over Joseph?

      • RSH

        To me, no.

      • Andrew

        probably would be VJ is in so far over his head I can’t imagine many being worse.

        • G Mik

          Really? The 1-whatever Giants with a HoF QB. You don’t think that is worse. Well… it is. Besides, we need some consistency as well as you don’t look to replace the worst with the 2nd worse or vice-versa. The 8-game slide has you guys taking crazy pills.

          • Laces Out

            For real

          • Andrew

            Don’t worry VJ will get 2 years on Elways ego alone.

          • RSH

            Who would you hire this offseason? Are you concerned with how many head coaches the Broncos are churning through? What about paying Joseph for three more seasons if he is let go this season or after the season?

          • Andrew

            I’m sure there’s a d-coordinator of a bottom defense available just like last year. I don’t know who you hire I just don’t imagine him turning this ship around. I guess if we have to suffer through 2 years of his ineptitude, so be it, but he’s been terrible in games and in personnel decisions not much to be optimistic about. I honestly didn’t think I would miss Kubiak this much.

          • G Mik

            We have one really shitty season and all of a sudden a guy that has brought us numerous SB visits and rings is the bad guy. I am willing to bet that 90% of GMs have huge egos. Coaches included. It comes with the territory. At least Elway has the justification to have one. That said, Elway is looking at himself in the mirror and understands exactly what his role is in this mess. I have no doubts about that – he is the ultimate say-so and is not the guy to pass the buck.

            On to your point – Do you really think a Coaching change (again) is what we need now? (and if you would consider McAdoo, like Jeremy, you might lose all credibility – Ha). I do believe strongly in expediting the inevitable so if you feel that way I would understand. I think the guy had a DC in over his head (1st year as well) and was also in over his head and now the thing has snowballed. But he has no QB, no offense to speak of, and that has directly contributed to our shitty season. I say give him another year and see what happens. But any team without a serviceable QB will suck. And my boy T Sizzle was not serviceable this year.

    • Bad idea to promote b/c other teams are chasing the guy, Bucs fell for it twice with Morris and now Koetter.

      • RSH

        And if you don’t get promoted by that team, you hold and a grudge and end up elsewhere calling onside kicks and a deep pass with a 33-9 lead late in the fourth quarter against the team that did not promote you.

  • The Color Orange
    • Steven Searls

      Why? Someone hurt? We going to release Oz or Siemian?

      • RSH

        Pure conjecture, but Paxton Lynch may be headed to IR.

        • The Color Orange

          Or they’re just starting to look at guys for offseason futures contracts.

          • RSH

            Good point.

        • ohiobronco

          Even if he isn’t, they would be in a bind if they suffered an injury in the next week or two.

        • So they can use next yr. to evaluate him…

      • Nick

        As the article says, it’s likely an audition for a possible future contract.

    • Is Leidner the guy Vikes cut for Sloter?

  • Steven Searls

    Just for the record, I was impressed by CJ and his effort yesterday. At times it seemed like he was the only offensive player who gave a damn.

  • The Color Orange
    • Nick

      “at this time”.

    • Steven Searls

      No, until we pass the Giants in lowest draft position, we should stay the course.

    • Andrew

      The mouthpiece has spoken…

  • RSH
  • RSH
    • Nick

      Ereck Flowers isn’t as bad as 2015 Michael Schofield, but he’s close.

      • Royalwithcheese

        It wasn’t even Flowers. Mack was going against Chad Wheeler. Trust me, he’s way worse than Ty/Watson/Stephenson.

        • Nick

          Well, it looks like the Raiders teed off on both sides. Or was Flowers hurt/benched? I was in no mood to watch even a second of that game.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I think it was Flowers on one side and Wheeler on the other.

      • Yahmule

        The Giants showed up that year and just said, “Do you have any really big guys?” when their pick came up.

    • Laces Out

      Projection, Lawrence is number one next week!?

  • Laces Out

    Serves them right in New York. Watch spagnolo get a beast performance out of that team next week. Dallas is a little overrated in my opinion.

  • Nick

    I’m still incredibly pissed that two teams gifted the Chargers and Raiders a W each for being stupid with QB changes.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/937742991967563777

    • RSH

      The Raiders will lose out. @Kansas City, Dallas, @Philadelphia, and @Chargers.

      • Nick

        One can only hope. The Eagles losing last night makes it much more unlikely that they be able to sit starters in Week 16.

        • RSH

          The Raiders are not good. The Chiefs are not much better, but all of the Raiders’ remaining opponents will expose Oakland’s awful defense.

    • Royalwithcheese

      No kidding. At least with Manning back, they have a chance to win a game or two.

    • Tyler

      Wow, benched him just long enough to ruin his starting streak.

      • Sparks

        I wouldn’t blame him for telling them “nah, I’m good bro” and just wait out the season.

  • RSH
  • RSH
    • Nick

      I swear, it just seems like PFF has no context for who these pass rushers are going up against. No one gets as lucky as Clayborn did when he went up against the woefully unprepared backup to Tyron Smith.

      • Nick

        I’ll mostly retract that, didn’t see this was by game until I saw Von Miller show up twice.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    3 of our 4 coaches had never done their job before. And the fourth still thought he had Rivers at QB. Recipe for disaster.

    • Rob Rooney

      Isn’t this also a reason to exercise patience? If you hire a young, first-time head coach and new coordinators shouldn’t you expect to have problems? And by making that choice, aren’t you accepting there will be growing pains?
      I think you need to allow for that when you make that choice. Maybe you can tell in a year, maybe you can’t. I don’t know if you can expect a jump from year 1 to year 2 or not.
      The other side is to only hire ‘experienced’ coaches, which basically means they have been fired before.

      • BlackKnigh

        I hate to say I told you so – but when they hired Joseph and let Wade go – I was seeing the handwriting on the wall. I did not think it would be this bad though. Had they kept Wade – they might have lost Woods. However – Wade has been a HC 3 times or so. He could have been a steady hand to advise Joseph from time to time. Woods has done a good job as DC however.

  • JMac

    If this is true at all, it doesn’t bode well for having Elway as a boss:
    https://twitter.com/ArmandoSalguero/status/937721291200659456

    • RSH
      • Laces Out

        Source monger…dont tell Nicki..

        Clown shoes… I agree with most of the others on here anyways who cares they beat us we are a bad team I’m not sure why that’s a major accomplishment. It is definitely chickenshit kicking an onside kick in the fourth quarter when you’re up big there’s no doubt about it

      • The Color Orange

        Klis is becoming the most insufferable little wiener. Does he really think anyone gives two shits what he reported first?

    • Not only did he kick it onside, he inserted his 3rd string QB, David Fales, ahead of Matt Moore and had Fales throw deep on 3rd and 1. He wanted to shove it up Elway’s ass clearly. Gase better have this accusation confirmed otherwise he comes off as a complete d bag and Elway is probably not the enemy a coach wants in the league circles.

      • RSH

        Great. His bad team beat a worse team. Never burn bridges in your profession or tarnish your reputation. IMHO, that was not a wise move by Gase.

        • Rob Rooney

          Not to mention what did he accomplish? He made our bad team look bad and all Elway did after letting him go was win a Superbowl. Those sound about even!

          • RSH
          • BlackKnigh

            He had an opportunity in 2014 to put a Broncos team missing 5 defensive starters and their starting LT in a better position to win by preparing to run, run and run against the seaturkeys.
            After seeing him trade his best RB to the Eagles for a 4th round pick – I don’t think he understands all the facets of this game yet.

        • Sparks

          It’s not like Gase is Belichick and has his 5 rings to fall back on if he does burn a bridge. Yay, he ran up the score against a 3-8 team. Congrats! Something to put on the old resume there.

          • I have to say, that really pissed me off a lot more than I thought it would or I would’ve liked it to. Just seemed like petty unsportsmanlike garbage, even at the moment I assumed it had something to do with past “beefs.” Just like, rise above it, Gase, be a man, take your win and move on, don’t need to rub all the players and fans’ noses in whatever your deal is.

          • Sparks

            Yep. Shit like that has a funny way of coming back to you. He ran up the score in what was basically a non-meaningful game. What I did like is that within a few mins of that onsides kick, they were showing highlights of the 38-3 massacre of Denver beating Miami in the playoffs. You know, a meaningful game. And they didn’t have to resort to bushleague onsides kicks BS either. TD was 1 yard short of 200 in that game. That was a game that they still show highlights. Most people won’t even care enough to wipe their ass with yesterday’s footage by the end of this season.

            For those interested, here’s the boxscore of that game they kept showing the highlights of.

            https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/199901090den.htm

        • Jeremy

          The whole thing has been blown out of proportion. After everything that’s happened this year, is this really
          that embarrassing? We were already down 33-9. Is losing 40-9 any different?

          If the Broncos don’t like it step up and make a play so you aren’t losing by 24 in the 4th quarter

          • RSH

            I agree. The Broncos should have recovered the onside kick, but why did Gase call the onside kick in the first place? To get some in-game, surprise onside kick experience? Why don’t more coaches up 33-9 late in the fourth quarter call onside kicks?

          • Sparks

            I like how his explanation was “We play for 60 minutes”. I’d love to be the guy to ask him about that next time he kneels on the ball in a victory formation.

          • Jeremy

            I agree it was dumb for Gase to do, but my point is more, so what?

            Broncos have much bigger things to be concerned about and greater reasons to feel embarrassed.

          • Of course they do. They embarrassed themselves plenty enough on their own. And improving has to be their focus.
            None of that changes the fact that it was unnecessary and shitty sportsmanship, though, imho.

      • Laces Out

        Moore was inactive

    • G Mik

      Interesting. It’s certainly possible (likely) that Elway said something to Baalke that made him change his mind but I doubt he straight badmouthed Gase. I mean what would you have to say about a guy to make the other team hire Jim freaking Tomsula? I mean, really. It would have had to be some nuclear type sh!t. And that I doubt is the case but who knows. Thanks for posting I asked this yesterday and at least have an idea now.

      • Jeremy

        Yeah I am a little skeptical too. Would the 49ers really buy everything Elway was saying when the broncos likely had a head coaching vacancy and would be competing for Gase?

    • Clockwork Orange
      • BlackKnigh

        Wishful thinking on his part. Kubiak pulled this team together utilizing its strengths and he made it work. he generated an offense where there was little spark. Gase couldn’t have done that in a million years.

      • Yahmule

        The players don’t study hard enough. John didn’t pimp me hard enough. Same old shit from this guy all the time.

  • Nick
  • ohiobronco

    My office mate is going to the game tonight and we were discussing the possibility of a meltdown on the field and/or in the stands ala the 2015 playoff game. It’s a super nice day and pre-gaming is probably well underway at this hour. If the Steelers start running up the score and/or Burfict starts acting out there could be some ugliness.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Bullshit tackling. Plain and simple.

    “Drake was incredible producing yards beyond the scope of what his blockers created for him. 106 of his 120 yards came after contact on the day.”

    • JMac

      Maybe, but I think he also just had a great day. Watching the game I was more impressed with his effort than disgusted by our tackling. Dude was balling.

    • Royalwithcheese

      Brandon Marshall is just atrocious. That contract is looking worse and worse.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        That’s been a big surprise. Why the huge dropoff for him this year?

        • Royalwithcheese

          Wish I knew. Yahmule says he’s playing with a seriously injured shoulder. That could have something to do with it. They need a big bounce-back year from him in 2018.

          • RSH

            The same was said for 2017.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I remember the same thing, but PFF graded him very highly in 2016 — same as in 2015, in fact. Makes me think they missed something there.

      • masonjar

        Eh, not that bad of a contract. OverTheCap says they’ve essential been paying $4.5 million this year and last. They can cut bait with him post-June 1 2018 and only have $2 million in dead money.

        • Royalwithcheese

          Wow. How did I not realize that. Is there a reason they wouldn’t do that with him and, let’s say, Watson, for example? Would that cap space go for 2018 or 2019?

    • while overall none of us have the same concerns for the defense in near future that we do for the offense, it’s clear that next to OL and a QB in the draft next year they have to also prioritize ILB (LB in general). And there are some good ones in the draft.

      • Like Roquon Smith in round 2 perhaps? Or Oren Burks in round 3?

        • Yahmule

          If Roquan fell into the 20’s, I would consider moving up for him. Difference maker.

          • That’s kind of my hope with this draft. Broncos need at least two blue chip players for OL, QB and ILB. Which could happen with a very top of 2nd round pick, but trading up to snag two in the first, for a 2nd and lower pick, would make a lot of sense. And yeah absolutely if he’s there for the taking, do it.

      • RSH

        I would love for us to take an inside linebacker this draft.

        • Oh I will be very upset if they don’t take one at SOME point. Just wondering how high they will take one. Seems like some solid prospects could be available in rounds 3-5.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I take one earlier than round 3 unless some extraordinary talent plummets for some reason.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          I’ve been banging that drum for a few years now.

          • RSH

            It is definitely time with Todd Davis and Corey Nelson unrestricted free agents, two subpar seasons from Brandon Marshall, and no inside linebackers drafted since 2014.

  • Jeremy
    • BlackKnigh

      Thanks for posting this! I was not able to see the game. What a catch!! Amazing reflexes and presence of mind!

      • Jeremy

        Just watching how tightly he blankets receivers is something

  • The Color Orange

    Good lord. Oh well, it’s all about the draft pick now, anyway.

    https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/937771134396727296

    • Jeremy

      There’s really no difference between playing Brock and Siemian. Siemian is under contract for cheap next year so I guess roll with him.

      • The Color Orange

        That will be some inspirational locker room speech.

        • Jeremy

          “Everyone. This is Trevor fucking siemian. He was the second best qb on his team in college, ranked 11 in qb rating in the big 10, and now he’s here. Somehow, some way, he made it onto this roster and earned a starting job.

          He almost gave up football for a real estate career, and if you fuckers don’t block for him he’ll be selling houses come June.

          Now let’s go out, and win a mother fucking football game. ”

          How’s that?

      • Laces Out

        Nailed it

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I guess it’s “the end of day” for Osweiler.

    • gobroncos

      Welp, All this means is Brock is going to feel snubbed at the end of the year and go elsewhere. Way to go Elway!

      • Laces Out

        Im sorry but that’s a good thing

        • gobroncos

          I know, that’s why I did the sarcastic text. Maybe it didn’t come across that way. I think it’s pretty funny. Here we are snubbing him again. I wonder if it’s Elway decision or just VJ’s or a joint decision.

          • Laces Out

            For sure my man I didnt like Brock coming back anyhow and he proved it quickly so that’s a plus

  • The Color Orange
    • Jeremy

      It doesn’t really matter, but Hasn’t Osweiler faced much worse defences?

      • The Color Orange

        No. Philadelphia is no. 4 in total defense and Cincinnati is No. 7.

        • Jeremy

          FO gives Siemian a DVOA of -16.5% and a VOA of -14.3% (VOA is DVOA but not adjusted for opponent. Higher is better).
          They give Osweiler a DVOA of -22% and a VOA of -23.5%.

          So DVOA rankings suggest that Siemian has played better, but that Osweiler has played slightly tougher competition. I’m guessing if you took out Weeks 1 & 2 for Siemian, he would look much worse.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Yeah, I’d be curious to watch VJ sell starting Siemian to the rest of the team by saying “he gives us the best chance to win.”

      • Laces Out

        Think he did just that

    • Laces Out

      Spliting hairs much? Theyre both c teamers…Os is good as gone

  • Nick

    This doesn’t sound like a man confident in his job security.

    https://twitter.com/DickersonESPN/status/937771968455237632

    • DragonPie

      I wouldn’t mind bringing him back.

  • Royalwithcheese

    Flip a fifth for Cordy Glenn, sign the top OG available, sign Avery Williamson, draft Lamar Jackson.

    There, I fixed it.

    • Sparks

      Ta da!! Honestly, though, I don’t know if I’d be very happy with Jackson in the 4 hole. Maybe work in a trade back, acquire more picks and then draft Jackson and I’d be more on board.

      • Royalwithcheese

        I’d like that, too, but the truth is that if you’re will to take him at 10 or 12, you should be willing to take him at 4. Too risky to trade back, if that’s your guy.

        • Sparks

          True, if that’s your guy. I was more thinking taking best available QB at a particular draft spot. If you’re at 4, then Darnold (or Rosen if he inexplicably slips) makes sense. If you drop, then someone else (Jackson for you, Mayfield for me) or maybe even go OL in the first and hold out for one of the other guys in Rd. 2.

          • Royalwithcheese

            It all depends on free agency (obviously). Either they spend big there to fix the OL, or they spend big on a QB. I’d rather take one of the top 4 QBs than wait until the second round. And I’m betting Elway has the same mindset.

          • Sparks

            Yes, waiting does add some inherent risk that they might not be in a position to take on. It’ll be interesting to see how the offseason unfolds and if the big 4 remain that way going into April.

          • ohiobronco

            If you feel strongly about a guy don’t fuck around. If you don’t feel strongly about him don’t take him in the first. Standing pat at 4 or so and getting your guy is a lot better than giving up an extra first to move up like a lot of teams have been doing.

          • Sparks

            If they end up anywhere in the 4-6 pick range, I absolutely would not advocate for trading up from there. I think there will plenty of good players left after the first 3-5 come off the board. Plenty of good players that so happen to play at our positions of need – QB, OL etc.

        • Yahmule

          I agree. It would take a ton to get me to move out of the top five.

    • Laces Out

      Any effort in that category would be fantastic

  • NorBronco

    Saw it discussed here in the comments section earlier and whoever said it was right. Looks like spring cleaning is coming to Denver this off-season

    https://scout.com/nfl/denver-broncos/Article/Report-Changes-To-The-Denver-Broncos-Coaching-Personnel-Staff-Expected-At-Seasons-End-111727790

  • Sparks

    Mock Drafts can be quite funny at this time of year. This one has the Broncos taking a S in the 4 spot. You know, because the difference between the 3-9 team before us and a championship caliber team is we’re lacking good safety play.

    http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2747404-2018-nfl-mock-draft-post-week-13-breakdown

    • Oof that’s … silly.
      I will say if the Broncos are going to draft BPA from an area that is not the most pressing need, I wouldn’t argue taking Saquon Barkley 😉 But again… have to fix that OL.

  • RSH
    • Royalwithcheese

      I can’t believe he’s still on the team.

      • Sparks

        Agreed. I said that 6 weeks ago. At the most, he should be on the PS. The most.

        • Nick

          There’s no point in cutting him now and exposing him to waivers. Give him another training camp with competition first.

          • Nick

            Which is what RSH basically said downthread. Should have read everything first.

          • Laces Out

            Are you for real? These losses are affecting you huh

          • Sparks

            I can concede there’s no point….now. They should have made the move weeks ago. At this point, who are we going to sign to fill that spot that would help turn the season around…no one. The fact that this guy gets shot after shot and DHenderson gets shit is frustrating to me though. Hopefully they give DH his active slot this weekend.

      • RSH

        He has talent and ability. He just needs to learn how to secure the ball. I am willing to give him another offseason and preseason.

        • Royalwithcheese

          The fact that he brings no value on offense is the deciding factor to me. He’s taking the roster spot of someone who can contribute in other ways.

          • RSH

            I may be in the minority here, but I don’t think that McKenzie would make it through waivers.

          • Carsonic

            I with you all the way. I think he will eventually get his head on straight and become a real threat, at the very least on special teams if not consistently on offense.

          • Sparks

            I thought the same thing about Trindon Holliday, who was out of the league by age 28. TH had 10 (3 lost) fumbles for us. OTOH, he also at least scored on 6 returns while he was with us so at least we had some reward to go with our risk. I hope you’re right, though. It’d be nice to have a threat at PR.

          • Carsonic

            I’m not sure why, but Holliday seemed to me to be lacking upstairs somewhat. Again, not sure where I got the impression, but what little I’ve seen of McKenzie gives me the impression that he’s no dummy, just trying too hard under the rookie-starter pressure. I could just be living in my own little fantasy world, though.

          • Sparks

            This isn’t necessarily towards you RSH, but during TC, everyone thought there would be no problem moving an undrafted QB to the PS that happened to have played very well in the preseason. They said he’s undrafted and will clear waivers easily. Now we have a guy that has shown nothing in the NFL but the propensity to drop/muff kicks and he’ll have troubles getting through waivers? Why the disparity? Is it draft status?

            And, for the record, I recognize at this point of the season that making any moves like that is not really warranted as they can just make him one of the inactives down the stretch and hope he invests in a JUGGS machine in the offseason. I’m just curious why the differing thought processes on two players getting to the PS.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Kyle Sloter did make it through waivers, chose to sign with the Vikings practice squad, and was only activated after Bradford’s injury. As a much higher rated prospect who is exceptionally athletic and has issues that can possibly be coached out of him, like RSH I’m not certain McKenzie would make it through waivers.

          • Sparks

            That’s fair. I was thinking that they claimed him off of waivers, but your right. They just offered to pay him more.

          • Cmon.m, for real? No one is claiming him. Little value as a WR and a turnover machine as a PR.

          • Laces Out

            Nope so lets allow him to go cost some other team. Risk reward no where near worth it…what he returns 2 tds but gave up 5 fumbles!?

            PS never returmed any..

            BYE

    • Jeremy

      There is some truth to putting a high risk high reward player back to return punts on this team. Even if we put a sure handed guy back who gets 5 yards every time we still lose. If Mckenzie springs one for a TD early that could have been enough to change the game in our favor.

      Of course, after 6 fumbles it’s much harder for that logic to hold

  • RSH

    ***TRIGGER WARNING FOR THE COLOR ORANGE AND UNCLE RICO***

    https://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/937783386550157312

    I did listen to the presser, and I was impressed with Joseph’s composure answering tough questions today.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Maybe the team doesn’t respond well to calm, and whatever confidence he has appears to be spurious.

      • RSH

        Unless Bill Parcells from a decade ago is coming through the door, which would never happen with John Elway here, I think that Vance Joseph remains the head coach.

        • And I think he should. To get one more year, as he’s learned on the job this year and been given a crap hand with terrible QB play, bad OL and some players just in a bad head space. Maybe some of that is on him, too, but there’s no way you can prove your future merit as a HC when your present deck of cards is 2 of spades, 5 of diamonds and 9 of clubs.

        • He will not be the coach next yr. There’s no point firing him now, but come Black Monday he’ll be on the street. He’s not a jerk like McDaniels but he’s in over his head just the same.

          • RSH

            To be replaced by who? Joseph also has three years remaining on his contract.

          • RagnarRagnarsson

            By whomever wins the HC interview process of course. VJ seems like a good solid dude, but you can’t lose 8 straight in crap fashion and keep the HC job in Denver. Can you?

          • RSH

            If the Broncos make a change, it needs to be with an experienced head coach. Have you seen the list of previous head coaches currently available? I am not sure that there is a clear cut upgrade. We are churning through head coaches far too often.

        • Forrest Trump

          I tend to agree. I think Dove Valley is probably at least as concerned about Elway”s alledged waning prestige in league circles. He’s run off two highly respected coaches already, and firing a third despite serious personnel issues could make the Denver job toxic.

    • The Color Orange
      • Nick

        For those unfamiliar with “The Ratio” on Twitter, it’s an informal rule that suggests that if your tweet has more replies than retweets and likes combined, it’s likely a very bad tweet.

    • OMFG, at this point it has be a joke… otherwise there’s no way Klis can sit in the same room as the other reporters. Maybe he watches from behind glass. At this point I don’t care how well he handles press conferences… to be “surprised” by team’s continued poor play means he’s got no answers and isn’t ready to be a HC.

  • RSH
  • RSH
    • The leader of men, coaching up “real guys.”

  • Yahmule
    • RSH

      One of my favorite letters of all-time.

      • Yahmule

        I just get such a kick that he cc’ed Modell.

    • Hank Mardukis

      Pardon my ignorance, but is there a website that collects these letters? This one and the one you posted yesterday were pretty funny.

    • Sparks

      This is the kind of stuff we’ve lost in today’s PC driven world. If that happened today, it would be sent out on social media and all the outlets within minutes. There would be a call for a hearing that Cleveland Stadium doesn’t care about the safety of the fans while Cleveland Stadium would be sending out a press release that Mr. Bailey has been removed from all duties while an investigation is allowed to take place, all the while assuring that the fans safety is their number one priority. Dale Cox would sue for mental distress for rightly being called out as an asshole and Cleveland Stadium would settle out-of-court for some undisclosed sum of money. The left would mark this as another example of Trump’s trickle down emboldened affect, while the right would call it fake news and act like it didn’t happen. An organization, PAM (Paper Airplanes Matter) would start to gel as protesters took the streets both for and against paper airplanes. Little skinny dudes dressed in black with handkerchiefs covering their faces and trash cans sawed in half as shields would sucker punch people because their cause is ‘right’. Every side would point fingers saying “they made paper airplanes first” and we would all devolve as a society, in some small fashion.

      Thank goodness the 70’s happened in the 70’s. When you could call an asshole an asshole and a bush was a bush.

  • Nick

    I didn’t watch any of this game, but it sounds like we have a new chapter to the growing (but soon to be complete?) book of Foxball.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/12/04/bears-should-have-let-49ers-score-john-fox-defends-decision-not-to/

    • Brian

      To be fair, this is an oft-correct but rarely used strategy. For instance, on the key 3rd down pickup by the raiders up 21-14 when cordarelke Patterson passed the 1st down marker and broke free, the broncos should have let him score. 3 kneeldowns later, the game was over

  • Royalwithcheese

    Nick, do you see any possibility for the Broncos to use the post-June 1 designation on anyone? Marshall, Stewart and maybe one of the WRs seem like they could be options. (I know it’s limited to two players.)

    • Nick

      Need to study more but I’d say highly unlikely. One point I am likely to make is that the Broncos should not be hemorrhaging proven talent.

    • Forrest Trump

      I think he”s gonna be good straight out of the gate. Like Elway, he is a baller who happens to play QB. He is just an outstanding, instinctual, competitive football player.

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        If we don’t sign Cousins, my gut tells me this kid is the way to go.

        • Forrest Trump

          Whoever gets him will be happy, I think.

      • FarAwayBroncoFan

        I agree. So that means we likely pass on him…

        • Forrest Trump

          I’m avoiding hoping for Mayfield. My getting my hopes up will doom his chance at landing in Denver.

    • Sparks

      This has been my guy for awhile now. He’s a gamer. Hope we get him if we don’t go the established FA route.

    • BlackKnigh

      Me too! Were he in Denver – the issues the team are facing would be less – I think.

  • Yahmule
  • Jeremy

    I just realized Paxton has a DVOA of -197.6%.
    Nathan Peterman and his 5 interceptions has a DVOA of -97.9%

  • Laces Out

    Outstanding pro football hame tonight…LBs are fun to watch but Burfict just caught a taste of his own medicine from juju….he was laying down a night night up to that.