• The Color Orange
  • The Color Orange
    • Russ

      😳 More evidence that he’s a football genius. I wonder if the team meeting went something like, “Ok guys, run down and tackle him. Unless he fumbles the ball, then recover it.”

      • The Color Orange

        But Joseph apparently doesn’t know that, so what does that make him?

        • Given Mackenzie’s ball security issues and the Patriots known attention to detail in all phases incl. ST, plus the fact they have a lefty punter (different rotation on ball), VJ and Olivo clearly missed the mark in having MacKenzie on the field. Poor coaching.

          • Brian

            the lefty punter factor is pure bs manufactured by collinsworth during the broadcast. I’m not sure who should be returning punts, but I’ve seen enough from mac.

          • Cmon. I’ve heard it multiple times from different sources. Not that it’s an excuse for MacKenzie or shouldn’t be handled cleanly by a pro PR, just another factor why he shouldn’t have been on the field with better coaching judgment.

          • Brian
          • Yahmule

            It’s a common fallacy. We had Mike Horan here for seven years and we weren’t seeing punt returners becoming confused. The spin on the ball isn’t different coming from a left footed punter. The spin is determined by how indirectly the foot contacts the ball. This doesn’t take someone from NASA.

    • Kndh19

      5 muffed punts through 9 games. That’s pathetic.

      • Carsonic

        If you work hard and practice well, that’s bound to transfer to the field. Except for some people, I guess.

  • ohiobronco
  • RSH

    The Broncos are now dead last in turnover margin at -14. http://www.espn.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/givetake. No team can consistently win football games under such circumstances.

  • Forrest Trump

    https://syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/2743888-2018-nfl-mock-draft-breaking-down-post-week-10-predictions.amp.html

    I still find it hard to believe that Denver would move on without giving Lynch some starts. With Joseph’s “favorite” QB from the 2017 draft on the roster, a first round QB seems even less likely.

    Anyway, let Mayfield hysteria begin…at least until Elway gets hopelessly mezmermized by Ryan Allen.

    • That “favorite QB” seems like non-sense. It’s more like favorite QB of those expected to be around when considered picking a QB… rounds 6 and 7. Did he really prefer Kelly to Trubisky, Mahomes, Watson, Webb, Peterman?

      • Forrest Trump

        A lot of people liked Kelly the athlete. It’s Kelly the douchbag that earned the draft slight.

        I’m not counting on it, but people grow up sometimes.

    • JMac

      Can you check the link? gives a 404 for me.

      • JMac

        And now it works…

      • Forrest Trump

        Well, shit!!!

        It worked just moments ago and now I get the 404, too.

        I don’t know what happened.

  • Sparks

    Marquise Goodwin’s story sure puts the state of the Broncos into perspective. I can’t even imagine.

    http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21394528/marquise-goodwin-san-francisco-49ers-stars-death-baby

    • Steven_Searls

      My heart goes out to him.

  • Nick

    So, so perspective: the last four games were always going to be a tough stretch once the schedule was released, and it was not out of the pale that they could lose all four. What was real surprising was the home loss to NYG, that gets more inexcusable this week.

    But what’s done is done, and the remaining 7 games are more winnable than the last 4 were. Time for the Broncos to put the past behind and focus on ending the season on a high note, even if it’s not enough to get as high as is typically demanded in Denver.

    (And yes, I’m fully aware of double entendre opportunities after that last comma before I hit submit on this post.)

    • Forrest Trump

      I’m sure they’ll rally and do enough to avoid the meat of the draft. That way we can chose out of a pool of 50 epic projects in the first round. You know, a guy the coaches will fix.

      It’s working so awesome and all.

      • Like last year, just had to win in week 17 to drop down a couple draft places since 9-7 looks a lot better than 8-8.

        • Nick

          But that win was against the Raiders. I’ll take that any day over a few draft spots.

          • Yahmule

            And we would have drafted Bolles anyway.

    • The Color Orange

      Unfortunately, we’ve reached the point where we’re better off losing.

    • Yahmule

      Perspective. Good one, Nick.

    • ohiobronco

      What’s really shocking is not the losses but the manner of the losses. Five straight games that have been over at some point in the third quarter most of them by half time.

      • Sparks

        Back-up QB’s are looking forward to getting some playing time when they face us. When it’s been almost 30 years since you gave up as many points in back-to-back games as they have, that’s just bad, all the way around. I do agree with Nick that they should look forward. Maybe wreck some team’s playoff plans.

        • RSH

          I am all for keeping Kansas City from being higher than a 3 seed and for beating Oakland in two weeks.

      • Steven_Searls

        Agreed, D comes out last night, gets 3 and out and that was our big highlight. After that we were behind 14 – 3 with a great deal of the first quarter still to play. We scored FGs at least, but had to abandon any game plan we might have had by halftime when we were down 27-9. I never felt we were in the game after the KO return for a TD.

  • The Color Orange

    So, let’s talk about John Elway. This offseason, Elway decided that he deserved to be the highest paid GM in the league, but that Wade Phillips did not deserve to be the highest paid defensive coordinator in the league. Can anyone make the case that Elway is the best GM in the league? Yes, he brought a Super Bowl victory to Denver, but was that because he’s a great GM? Let’s look at his greatest hits. 1. He brought Peyton Manning to Denver, and this had a ripple effect through the franchise. But do you need to be a great GM to conclude that Peyton Manning is a better choice to quarterback your team than Tim Tebow? Moreover, Manning made clear that he was most comfortable dealing with Elway because he was a Hall of Fame QB. Elway was able to land Manning not so much by what he did as by who he was. And let’s not forget who Elway had identified as Plan B if he couldn’t get Manning: Brandon Weeden. And getting Manning “raised all boats,” and caused players such as Ware and Sanders to want to sign here. Moreover, it led to players like Wolfe and Harris taking below market contracts to stay here. (I wonder how they feel now about taking below market contracts to be a part of this shit show.) 2. When he had the second pick in the draft, he did not screw it up. He landed Von Miller. So he landed an elite player with the second pick in the draft, identified Peyton Manning as a better QB than Tim Tebow, landed Manning largely because he was a fellow elite QB, and then was able to be able to reap the benefits of having a Peyton Manning led team. There’s the good. But how much of that involved elite GM skill? On the other side of the ledger, we have his disastrous coaching decisions, disastrous QB decisions, mediocre draft after mediocre draft, and a repeated failure to fix the offensive line, including repeatedly overpaying for mediocre talent. So someone make the case for how John Elway is a great GM.

    • Forrest Trump

      I tend to believe that if people need a head for their stick, Elway should be first in line.

    • Nick

      I could write an article on this if I had the time and desire, but there’s a lot of comparison between Elway and Ozzie Newsome, also seen as a consensus top GM. Both won a SB in year 5 of their tenures, and then two years later their teams were floundering. The 2002 Ravens went 7-9 and were a disaster at QB. However, things turned out fine for Ozzie later on, and the same can be true for Elway given his track record.

      Obviously, we don’t want Elway to fully replicate Newsome in year 8–that would require giving away an extra first rounder to the Patriots to draft a Kyle Boller level QB so they could get a Vince Wilfork level player the next year. But they did go 10-6 in 2003. Shit happens in the NFL, and that shit can easily get turned around on a different team later.

      • The Color Orange

        Well, you haven’t presented any kind of an argument here. I’ll take your word for it that you could make the case if you wanted to.

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I think Elway got really lucky with the signing of Peyton Manning that helped him through his first years of being a GM, but I do not think that these two clowns are complementing his player evaluations, and should be tossed back in the shit hole bar they came from.
      http://blogs.denverpost.com/eletters/files/2013/07/heckertrussell-495×360.jpg

      • Forrest Trump

        I’m not sure I’ve seen a worse oline or a defense with such a glaring weakness. They are bereft of offensive weapons under 30, and have now whiffed twice on QB prospects.

        That is on Elway. 100%

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          Yeah but he’s John Elway so I’m going to give him the benefit of the doubt, and blame the 40 yr old frat boys first. If we have another season of shittyness I will help you put my hero’s head on that stick you speak of.

          • Forrest Trump

            LOL. I”m not much for knives and pitchforks. That is why I said “If people need…”

            The roster is a fucking disaster, though, so if I was feeling real outrage, I”d start with the FO.

            I maintain that the Broncos have paid back my loyalty with compounded interest. Thus, I ain’t mad, bro, just a little disappointed. I’m not hunting heads, just recommending them.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            That’s the way I look at it as well. Being a Bronco fan comes with a lot of perks, and us “entitled” fans need to swallow the shit with the steak once in awhile. Sigh… at least we sort of have a support group, right?

    • Royalwithcheese

      Unless he pulls a rabbit out of a hat this offseason, his reputation will take a big hit. It already has for those who are paying attention.

    • Your Broncos defense, pre-Elway:

      Starters:
      Justin Bannan
      Kevin Vickerson
      Jamal Williams
      Robert Ayers
      Mario Haggan
      Jason Hunter
      DJ Williams
      Champ Bailey
      Andre’ Goodman
      Brian Dawkins
      Renaldo Hill

      This defense was ranked 32nd for points and yards. 29*th in NY/A vs the rush, giving up 4.7 YPC, and 30th vs the pass, at 7.2 NY/A.

      The improvement wasn’t just drafting Von plus some Manning-influenced FA. Really, the only defensive player on today’s roster who you could say was a big-name and signed during the Manning era is Talib.

      I’m just saying – let’s not forget where the defense was before Elway took the reigns. Broncos were in a really, really bad place.

  • This season just feels snakebit. I believe we have most of the pieces in place to be great, but the pieces we are missing confound.

    * the QB isn’t good enough to overcome OL issues. If either the QB or OL was better, the offense wouldn’t be nearly as bad.
    * Turnovers have been a major issue. When the D forces a 3 and out and then ST muffs a punt, or the QB throws a pick, it’s all for naught. Some of this is on the QB, some of it is on the RB, some of it is on ST.
    * ST has been a killer. Yesterday was absolutely terrible. IMO, this comes down to coaching/preparation because this seems to by systemic.
    * stop being so stubborn on defense. Can we please put Talib on a TE if the opposition doesn’t have a WR that scares us?

    If the offense isn’t good and doesn’t have ball security, it puts the pressure on D/ST. If ST is bad, it amplifies the pressure on the D. Put that all together, and it’s a losing formula. Repeat a few times, morale goes to hell. People stop trying so hard and things spiral out of control.

    To fix:

    1. they have to fix either the QB or the OL. Both would be fine, but may not be possible. One of the two has got to improve. Probably not possible this season.
    2. cut the turnovers. Ball security has to be the #1 priority for offense and ST.
    3. on ST, do no harm. No un-necessary returns on KO, fair-catch everything, and stay in your dadgum lanes!!!

    • Steven_Searls

      Some thoughts:

      Our RBs are not as good as many other teams. We basically have the Cowboys backup RBs (or worse) without Zeke. If we had a better O-Line maybe they would look better, but …

      Our O-line needs no further discussion about the mess it is and shall remain for the foreseeable future.

      We have three back-up QBs on our roster playing behind said line. None of them has shown the ability to rally the team from behind, which unfortunately is usually what has happened during this losing streak.

      After DT and Sanders, our WRs are nothing special.

      Tight ends are non-existent in most games.

      Our Defense has been ground down, has stopped turning the ball over (something it did frequently since 2013-2016), and has an unfortunate tendency to give up chunk plays. This goes to coaching, preparation and morale.

      Coaching is worse than when Kubiak was the HC. Hard to believe but true. ST is horrific, but its fair to say the VJ looks like he is in over his head.

      Getting rid of Wade as DC was a big mistake, and I believe has impacted the performance of the D. I have watched several LA Rams’ games and their D, with fewer stars, is playing lights out each game I watch.

      • yeah, letting Wade walk seems wildly reckless. Too much inexperience on that coaching staff (defensively, anyways). Which is weird – the offensive staff has plenty of experience with three guys with coordinator experience and one with HC experience… they should have their shit together better than they do…which makes me think it’s more about personnel than coaching.

        • Steven_Searls

          On offense, I agree its the personnel more than the coaching. On Defense it’s the coaching more than the players,

        • BlackKnigh

          With a HC who has never been HC before and a coordinator 1 yr – keeping experienced coordinators would have been the way to go. Very important IMO. Wade would have helped steady this ship keeping the defense working at a high level. McCoy is good as well.
          I was concerned that this scenario would unfold when Wade was not resigned. He should have retired as a Bronco.

      • Yahmule

        The Rams have the seventh highest paid defense in the NFL (Denver is fourth) and they have Aaron Donald, Robert Quinn, Michael Brockers, Trumaine Johnson and Connor Barwin on defense. The only good quarterbacks they’ve faced this season are Cousins, Dak and Wilson.

        • Steven_Searls

          Quinn’s been injured a lot. Donald held out. They just look more cohesive and motivated than our defense, especially over the last four games. We still have a good defense, but it’s lost that edge that made it a great one.

          • RSH

            I am not discounting the points that you have made, but if you give this Broncos’ defense the leads that the Rams’ offense has given their defense this season, I think you would see much better results.

          • Steven_Searls

            Oh I agree with you. But I also think Wade as DC >> Wood

          • RSH

            Of course, he is. Phillips has been doing it for a long time. Who knows how much longer he wants to coach? Short-term, this is rough, but long-term, there is still some hope to rebound.

          • Yahmule

            Give us their schedule. We faced Rivers twice, Dak, Taylor, Carr, Smith, Wentz, Brady.

            They’ve faced Cousins, Dak, Wilson and they’ve also drawn Tolzein, Hoyer, Bortles, faded Palmer and Savage.

            It would have been nice if the Broncos defense could have played five below replacement level QB’s this season.

          • Steven_Searls

            Rivers looks like he regressed this year, to be honest. Taylor is a JAG. Carr has regressed this year. Smith is playing well but I still don’t consider him a top tier QB. We have faced tougher QBs in past years and done well against them. I don’t blame the D for collapsing the last few games. It must be discouraging to see such continual poor play by our offense the past two seasons, but especially this year. I also believe thew changes made to the D have effected its swag for lack of a better word.

          • Yahmule

            Did these guys become Scott Tolzein and Tom Savage? I haven’t noticed that multiple magnitude level of dropoff in their play this season. We haven’t scored a first half touchdown in six games. Kind of tough to swagger when the opposing team points at the scoreboard while laughing.

          • Steven_Searls

            I’m not saying Wade is the entire reason why we have seen such poor play on defense, We started off well the first few games, but I feel teams have figured out how to attack our “new” defense with its multiple zone looks. Maybe next year the D figures out the new schemes and plays better. But I get the sense that many of the defensive players have quit on Woods. We have the personnel to play aggressive man to man, not zone and I see fewer blitz packages as well this year. If I was used to the type of D the Broncos played under Wade and then was told I had to change completely to a system that relies much more heavily on zones, well I might struggle as well.

            But the primary problem with the team is our offense and especially the line and QB play. Right now there aren’t many offenses in the league who look worse than we do. That was not a great D last night the Patriots put out there and we struggled to do much against it on a consistent basis, even with the extended garbage time.

          • Yahmule

            Pretty dismissive of these guys when they’re better than anything the Broncos have had under center (except for Manning and Cutler) over the last two decades.

      • pubkeeper

        The D misses Dware, Jackson, trevathan and ward more than Phillips.

        • Yahmule

          So true, except for Ward who is shot.

        • Steven_Searls

          To be fair, DWare missed a lot of games in 2015 and 2016. Trevathan has been injured a lot since moving onto the Bears (he had injury issues with us as well). Jackson was a great fit for our D but there was never going to be a chance to keep him after the SB. He’s overpaid in Jacksonville. Ward we miss not for his play, which didn’t fit our “new system,” but for his intangibles.

          • pubkeeper

            They miss Ware’s leadership, they miss Trevathan’s fire and speed, they miss Ward’s enforcement and they miss Jackson’s interior pass rush.

            I’m not saying any of those players would provide that today on this team, obviously Ware is retired and Ward and maybe Trevathan are over the hill. Malik, I’d still take him today. I’m saying those were pieces that each of these players brought to the defense 2 years ago that have been lost and not replaced on the current version. That, more than the loss of Wade, has hurt this D more.

        • Tyler

          I have my doubts on that. Still way too much talent on this defense to have the kind of performances we have had the last couple weeks.

  • Sparks

    If Brock Olivo is still employed by the end of this week, I will have to question VJ’s competence as a head coach. I’ve gone back and forth wondering if maybe this is a over reaction to last nights game, but I’ve landed on it’s not. He has taken a ‘meh’ ST and made them one of the worst units in the league. I’m typing this under the assumption he has the final say on returners, coverage units etc. It’s not just one game….week after week, the ST’s play is piss poor. Some links here. Football Outsiders has us at 28th and PFF has us at 22 in ST’s. In fairness to PFF, that 22nd ranking was before last night’s debacle.

    http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stats/teamst

    https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-2017-nfl-mid-season-special-team-rankings

    Let’s look at some stats:

    KR – Langely 5-168-33.6 avg-long 61

    KR – Booker 10-213-21.3 avg-long 28

    KR – Latimer 8-165-20.3 avg-long 36

    Langely played 83% of the ST snaps last night so he’s healthy. Olivo puts Booker out there. He’s putting a guy who is worse statistically and a guy who should be getting more involved in the offense over a guy who is better and does nothing else other than ST’s. By the way, if you average 21.3 yards as Booker does, you should NEVER take the ball out of the end zone. It’s been a long time since elementary school math for me, but I believe 25 is still a bigger number than 21.3. Booker only returned 3 kicks in college (avg 19.0 yards) FTR so it’s not like he’s a proven commodity there. FWIW, I don’t blame Booker for last night. He kneeled when he should, but coaches shouldn’t have him out there in the first place when a better option is available.

    PR – McKenzie – 20-186-9.3 avg-long 44 (5 FUCKING FUMBLES – 1 OUT OF EVERY 4 RETURNS)

    PR – Hunter Sharp – 5-55-11 avg-long 16

    McKenzie is a 5th round pick that has shown nothing but his propensity to muff punts. Nothing on offense either. If he was on Belicek’s team, he’d be cut. Why he’s still back there is beyond me. I don’t care how flashy you are or what you do in practice, put the ball on the ground and you get to spend some time with the bench. Put the ball on the ground 1 out of every 4 times you touch it, and it’s best to go our separate ways. While not wanting to give up on a young player just yet, I advocate cutting him, promoting Sharp and if McKenzie clears waivers (why the hell wouldn’t he??) bring him back to the practice squad. Option #2, Kalif Raymond is on the Ginats PS – sign him and give him the duties. He flashed a hell of a lot more in TC than McKenzie did, IIRC. Hell, put Langely back there. He’s only returned 1 punt for 6 yards but at least he fielded it cleanly.

    • Agreed on MacKenzie. He’s too small to ever be effective consistently on offense and his ball security issues as a PR should have him cut at this point. No one will claim him so put him on the PS if you want to avoid the embarrassment of a wasted draft pick. Booker is terrible as a KR, no shot at a decent return with him in there… looks like an upman fielding the ball… absolutely Langley should be in that role for the remainder of the season (and hopefully next season C. Henderson shows something and the two of them compete).

      • Sparks

        I should have put McKenzie’s KR stats out there too, you know, for chuckles. 3-50-16.7 avg-long 21.

    • ohiobronco

      The only good thing is that the BrockO experiment did not ruin an otherwise good season.

    • Brian

      i’ve been combing twitter and this board awaiting the announcement of the firing.

  • RSH

    The offense’s red zone woes have been brutal.

    https://twitter.com/PostBroncos/status/930121880438231047

    Denver this season has scored touchdowns on just 41.9 percent of trips inside the 20-yard line. That ranks 30th in the 32-team league.

    • Steven_Searls

      If Osweiler was flashing hope, I didn’t see it. He trew to Sanders who played spectacularly against one of the weaker Pats’ defenses. But other than Sanders bailing him out with great catches, I didn’t see much that was different from Brock from many of his prior starts. Os is what he is.

      • DCJ1

        Exactly. Most of his passes were high, and about 1/3 were behind the receiver. There were a lot of good catches.

        • Yet VJ will tell us it was only the ST that was a problem and Brock deserves to start again as he played well.

          • Steven_Searls

            Unless someone tells him it’s time to evaluate Lynch. Which I hope they do. It’s past time to get him some game reps and see if he can improve and show anything.

          • cjfarls

            I agree now if the time, but probably won’t happen until we get one more loss.

      • QDoc

        No…. you read it wrong. There was this hot chick named Hope in the front row. He flashed her.

        Better?

  • DCJ1

    The rest of this season is auditions for next year. Who’s going to keep their jobs?

    QB: #1 TBD; #2 Siemian; #3 Lynch or Kelly.
    Definitely need to upgrade the starter at this position. For backups, I think it is a coin flip between Siemian and Oz, and Oz is likely to get a backup offer elsewhere if he performs decently the rest of the way. We have no idea what we have in Lynch or Kelly.

    OL: Bolles, Garcia, Paradis, Leary, TBD; Backups: Barbre, Watson, Wilkinson, McGovern, TBD
    RT is the glaring weakness in my opinion. The other issue is lack of chemistry — the OL needs some time to get used to each other, and putting in 3 new guys every off-season wreaks havoc. Find a RT,and keep some continuity for a change.

    WR: Thomas, Sanders, TBD; Backups: Fowler, McKenzie, TBD
    Fowler is just getting to the point where he can be productive. McKenzie costs little to keep, and he needs another year to see if his penchant for dropping punts can be cured. Bring in a proven #3 receiver and a rookie who can help stretch the field.

    TE: Heuerman, Derby, TBD
    With Green’s contract ending, he likely will be asked to explore free agency.

    RB: TBD, Anderson, Charles, Janovich, TBD
    CJ’s production is too low and bursty for a #1 RB. Like Charles, he’s a reliever, not a bell-cow.

    • Steven_Searls

      Hoping Butt next year comes through for us at TE.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        And Carlos Henderson at WR.

        • RSH

          And De’Angelo Henderson at running back. Side note, if the Broncos lose to Cincinnati on Sunday, it may be time to think about waiving Jamaal Charles, so Henderson can get on the field and Charles can latch on with a team in contention.

          • Sparks

            I said this last week. If we’re going the “let’s see what we got” route by playing Lynch et al, then DHenderson should definitely get some extended playing time, among other players. For instance, DeMarcus Walker, who hasn’t shown shit to date, should get some snaps as well.

          • ohiobronco

            Lynch (obviously), McKenzie (at WR), Henderson, Walker, McGovern and Langley.

          • Sparks

            Agree with all but McKenzie. I said it below but I think they need to cut him and either promote Sharp or go get Raymond. They should be able to easily bring McKenzie back to the PS and let him get some experience there before trying to make a run next OTA’s/TC.

          • Sparks

            Oh, and I’d add Carter to get some snaps at Safety. I’ve been a big DStew fan the last couple of years, but 2017 hasn’t been particularly kind to him and they should try to ascertain what they got in Carter.

          • Steven_Searls

            Stew he looks like he suddenly got old fast. Or maybe they are asking him to do things not in his wheelhouse. Who knows but there are times I’ve said to myself just keep Parks in the game.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I’m with you. They just can’t use him in one-on-one coverage. He’s still solid against the run.

          • ohiobronco

            Fair enough, I was kind of scraping the bottom of the barrel to think of young waiting in the wings talent.

          • Sparks

            Noted. 🙂

          • RSH

            I could see a team like New England making a waiver claim on McKenzie and turning him around.

          • Sparks

            Before they played us, yes, after they’ve played us, maybe not so much. Belichick’s quote downthread is very telling “that’s not the first punt McKenzie’s muffed this year”.

          • RSH

            Jedi Mindgames, man. If McKenzie can learn to secure the football first and comprehend that a fair catch is often the best course, he has the potential to be special. That was evident in every training camp punt that I watched him field. I am utterly shocked that McKenzie has been this bad.

          • Sparks

            True, that’s why I think they should move him to the PS, which they should have no trouble doing. We’ve talked about TS being mentally broken. I think McKenzie is at this point as well so they might as well see what they got in Sharp, who had a better average in a real game, albeit a smaller sample size.

          • Yahmule

            His confidence is pretty well shattered right now. I agree that dumping him is premature, but they need to sit him down for a while. Letting him play his way through it hasn’t worked. For all we know, he might be performing perfectly fine in practice, but even the words “good practice” have now become a term ripe for derision in Bronco Country.

          • RSH

            I fully agree that he should not be fielding punts and be inactive for at least a couple of games.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I think the writing is on the wall for McGovern. (Sorry, RSH.)

        • Sparks

          Hopefully he’s working with a JUGGS machine often as soon as his wrist allows. He was one of my favorite picks this year, but he had quite a few drops in TC/Preseason.

          • ohiobronco

            Kelly, Henderson and Butt should be throwing and catching every day.

          • Sparks

            No doubt. Head over and use Valor Christian’s field or something.

          • ohiobronco

            They are perfectly free to use team facilities outside of official practice time.

        • DCJ1

          I’ve not been a big Booker fan, but he is young and as a backup. But you can’t keep him and D. Henderson AND bring in a real #1 back. At some point you have to get a top-notch player at a skill position rather than five JAGs like the past few years.

          • Yahmule

            Every couple of years, some guy like Jordan Howard will reel off a good stretch and then you have people running around saying quality running backs can be found at any point in the draft. Which is true, as it is true for every other position, but it’s certainly not true that backs drafted after round two have anywhere near the success rate of guys picked in the first two rounds.

          • cjfarls

            Booker, Henderson and a new 3rd back (hopefully starter quality from the draft) is perfectly plausible. CJA looks like a cap casualty, but you could bring him back to see if he outplays Booker and/or whomever the new back is. Don’t need to make the decision early.

  • RSH

    No on signing Eli Manning. https://twitter.com/walterfootball/status/930124205672337409

    9. Denver Broncos: Da’Ron Payne, DT, Alabama
    Domata Peko is doing a good job as Denver’s primary run-stuffer this year, but he’s turning 33 right after Thanksgiving and could regress next year, which happens to be his contract season. Da’Ron Payne would be so much more for the Broncos, as he would be a dominant interior presence the team currently lacks.

    Payne, a freak athlete, has a chance to be chose [sic] in the top five – I considered him to Cincinnati at No. 5 a couple of weeks ago – so he makes sense for the Broncos at this spot.

    40. Timon Parris, OT, Stony Brook
    The Broncos have to find a new quarterback, but I imagine they’ll go the veteran route, acquiring Kirk Cousins or Eli Manning. If so, they’ll need a new tackle to protect the

    71. Darius Leonard, LB, South Carolina State
    The Broncos were going to consider Haason Reddick if he fell to them in the 2017 NFL Draft, so it would make sense if they addressed their linebacker situation at this juncture. They can’t cover tight ends and pass-catching running backs.

    • Sparks

      Out of curiosity, why the hard no on Eli? It seems the general consensus is if we had just middling level of competency at the QB position, we would be competing for the playoffs. If Eli is anything, it’s middling. Not necessarily angling for him here just yet, but the thought is intriguing. Most around here believe we need a vet presence at QB whether we stick with TS, Lynch, Kelly or whoever they draft in the 1st round next year. I think you could do a lot worse than Manning in that role.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        I think he’s headed well south of middling at this point. He peaked at middling.

      • ohiobronco

        That consensus is no longer a consensus. The priority now needs to be finding a long term quality starter.

        • Sparks

          On this, there is no doubt. During that search, whether it’s Eli or someone else, I still think a veteran presence is needed in that QB room next year, though.

      • Steven_Searls

        Eli is mid-30s and not aging well. Though at least he has experience playing behind a shitty O-line lol.

      • Nick

        You’d have to pay Eli a minimum of eight figures to get that middling talent.

    • Yahmule

      Payne or Christian Wilkins wouldn’t be bad picks @ 9.

    • Yahmule

      I’ll pass on becoming the first team to ever draft a player from Stony Brook University, especially with the 40th overall pick.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    You know who has really impressed me? Jared Goff. Mofo went into a new offense ( not second year like Wentz) and is consistently lighting it up. Fuckin A.

    • RSH

      I am very pleased that I selected him in my dynasty league draft in 2016. I was concerned after his rookie season, but Sean McVay has done wonders for him.

      • Steven_Searls

        Makes you wonder what McVay might have done with our team. Maybe nothing would have helped, but it seems the offense of the Rams has been simplified to fit Goff”s skilset, plus they went out and got Goff some weapons and protection at LT. We chose to select a HC who had limited experience as a DC with Miami. In free agency we picked up one decent but not great O-Lineman. We did nothing to add to the QB room on the assumption I suppose that Lynch would win the job. Maybe if we had signed McVay and had him design an offense to suit Lynch … Well it is all speculation.

        • BlackKnigh

          McVay was also able to put the defense in the capable hands of Wade Phillips. Wade made Denver look good for the last 2 season on defense.

          • Steven_Searls

            He did do that. What a luxury for McVay.

    • Steven_Searls

      I think you have to credit the coaching there. Also they went out and signed Whitworth, and that has really helped their line play.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Why isn’t D Henderson on the field?

    • Sparks

      The only reason I can think is they go into each game with 4 backs, to include Jano. That’s quite a bit. I think it’s time to get him on the field though.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Hold the phone, my boy Peterman saw the field? 7/10 for 79 and 1 TD.

  • RSH
    • Nick

      He really did embarrass Malcolm Butler. I feel confident the Pats will let him walk and scoop up a 3rd round comp pick due to some desperate team overpaying him.

  • Steven_Searls

    When VJ was hired it was under the belief that the Broncos were playoff contenders. Now it seems pretty clear we need a major rebuild. Query whether VJ is the right head coach for doing that.

  • RSH

    The AFC is full of mediocre and bad teams, including the Broncos. https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/standings/playoffrace. Would you rather have the Broncos secure a top-5 pick or shock the world by going on a run and qualify as a wildcard?

    • Carsonic
    • Steven_Searls

      Since I don’t beleive qualifying for the playoffs as possible at this point … why not, I choose the run and a first round loss to some other mediocrity and picking in the lower end of each round again. > snark font <

    • Sparks

      Even picking in the top 5 is not a guarantee for success. I say you play to win every game (even if you’re playing younger 2nd tier players like Lynch, DHenderson etc. to see what you got) and let the draft sort itself out.

      • cjfarls

        Absolutely… NOT in favor of tanking. Am in favor of self-scouting and developing the young talent we have.
        If you start trying to lose, you may as well set the team HQ on fire and start over… that is how you become the Cleveland Browns, LOLJets, or DET sad sacks.

    • Jeremy

      I hope there is more reason to celebrate this year. I don’t buy the literal super bowl or bust mantra. A high draft pick would be great but I think finishing year out strong, regaining some respect, and having a few wins to celebrate would be far better in my opinion

      • Nick

        Off topic, but is 5280sportsnetwork.com a thing anymore? I’m just getting a blank page when I click on the link to your author page I set up.

        • Jeremy

          Unfortunately, no. The website was seriously hacked over the summer. Around the same time, the owners/founders of 5280sportsnetwork (Nate Lundy and Shawn Drotar) bought mile high sports and merged the staffs. The website was never rebuilt. I was offered a gig with mile high sports but decided to turn it down as writing on a weekly basis proved to be more of a challenge than I anticipated

          • Nick

            Shame that it fell apart. Thanks for letting me know.

    • Forrest Trump

      I think the easy part of our schedule probably views us as the easy part of their schedule. I’m not sure “tanking” is realistically a choice as much as an inevitability.

      I imagine, for example, that Joe Mixon will enjoy his breakout game on Sunday.

    • BlackKnigh

      Do the shock and get in the playoffs. I would love to see these guys put their games together and kick all those teams that beat them this year.
      Always play for your pride!

  • RSH
    • Steven_Searls

      If we only had two more Learys.

      • BlackKnigh

        Precisely!

  • Prater2Beadles4Six

    Today, we are all this guy getting nailed in the head with an errant Os throwaway
    https://youtu.be/Bcn6QpdIbog

    • Sparks

      I’m laughing harder than I probably should at this. In Os’s defense, at least he was able to successfully, and correctly, throw some away last night.

    • ohiobronco

      That is actually Bennie Fowler’s private catching tutor.

    • Sparks

      I keep coming back to watch this. It’s like a JFK video…”See how the head goes back and to the left before he goes down. Back and to the left. Back and to the left. The inescapable conclusion is there was only one QB, only one throw and only one football. Ladies and Gentleman, there wasn’t anyone one the grassy knoll as the conspiracy theorists would lead you to believe, there was only Lee Harvey Osweiler.”

  • The Color Orange
    • Sparks

      Can always count on Allbright.

      https://i.imgur.com/WTDnnwE.gif

      • BlackKnigh

        Thanks for the laugh! How appropriate!

    • Steven_Searls

      NE pass rush is very poor. Not much of an accomplishment.

    • DCJ1

      Hooray for facts:

      Siemian time to throw = 2.63
      Osweiler time to throw = 2.68

      Albright is simply another jackass bro with a twitter account.

    • For anyone who cares, on that subject, my brief exchange with Doug Farrar. Will be interesting to see what he writes.

      https://twitter.com/BR_DougFarrar/status/930142392748990465

  • The Color Orange
    • cjfarls

      When including ST, definitely bottom 5.

    • Steven_Searls

      I think the Browns are still the worst.

      • Sparks

        I didn’t even open the link and I assumed the list was 1-31, with 32 permanently held for the Browns. It doesn’t matter who is coaching them, it’s always a disaster, year after year. I mean, you could even put Belichick there and he’d probably struggle…..oh wait…..

    • I’d argue Ben McAdoo is the worst — and he’s had a full season to figure out where he needed to improve, but has nothing to show for it.

      • Steven_Searls

        Yet somehow we lost to his team.

      • Yahmule

        McAdoo made the playoffs his rookie season. Losing one of the top ten players in the NFL, along with a truckload of other injuries, screwed their season. Now, because of a tattletale culture in that locker room that far predates his ascension to head coach, he’s the dumbest guy around. McAdoo will land on his feet and go coordinate another top ten offense somewhere else. Go look at the roster of the 2015 Giants, which finished sixth in points and 10th in yardage. The second best offensive player on that team was Reuben Randle. People are so reactionary about this stuff.

  • Since the bye week (5 games), the offense has allowed just as many TD’s than it has scored (excluding garbage time):

    2017-10-15 Janoris Jenkins 43 yard interception return
    2017-10-30 Marcus Peters 45 yard fumble return
    =====
    2017-10-30 Devontae Booker 6 yard rush
    2017-11-12 Demaryius Thomas 7 yard pass from Brock Osweiler

    • VonSwenson

      Far out! That’s the third statistic in a row that I’d rate as “Amazing” (and horrifying)! including the McKenzie fumble rate.

  • The Color Orange
    • BlackKnigh

      Not a good use of this guys’s talents. There was so little pass rush last night. You don’t give a QB like Brady time to think much less pass. In 2015 – the rush was ferocious!

      • RSH

        Malik Jackson and Antonio Smith were such unsung heroes for that defense. The losses of Danny Trevathan, to some extent TJ Ward, and DeMarcus Ware have also hurt.

        • Kndh19

          I forgot about Antonio Smith, they should have brought him back last year.

          • RSH

            I think he is done. Dude is 36-years-old.

    • VonSwenson

      That is an amazing statistic!

  • RSH
    • BlackKnigh

      Dan Reeves would have dumped this guy on his 2nd infraction. A DB in 1986 had 1 mess up against Chicago – and was gone the next day.

    • Jeremy

      This is pretty extreme, but in theory this team should benefit from a high risk high reward guy. We probably still lose if that fair catch is made cleanly but if he returns the punt for a td the game might have been different.

      But yeah, 5 fumbles in 28 attempts is too many, no matter how bad your team is or how great of a returner you are.

  • Nick

    One less RB to go against next week:

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/930168126217519105

    • Yahmule

      The Bengals O line, like every O line in the history of football, has not been able to shrug off the loss of a stud LT and a rock solid RG in the same off season. That said, Hill has been in sharp decline ever since a great rookie season. Hard to say how much Mixon is being affected by that (and also multiple offensive coordinators) but safe to say it hasn’t helped him much. He has not shown a lot of burst, with a long carry of just 25 and he’s put the ball on the ground a couple of times. He has done a excellent job catching the ball, and obviously they’re going to have that in the game plan.

  • RSH
    • Steven_Searls

      Hello Captain Obvious! (Waving at VJ)

      • RSH

        What do you want him to say or do? A demonstrative act such as throwing a garbage can on himself to illustrate how the team is playing and how many feel about the coaching?

        • Steven_Searls

          He can say whatever he likes. So can I. So can you. You seem to be taking offense to my posts. Not sure why. A lot of people have said they are dissatisfied with his showing so far. I’m not calling for him to be fired, but he doesn’t inspire much enthusiasm for me at the moment and I have to wonder how the locker room feels about him.

          • RSH

            I am not taking offense to your posts. If it has come off that way, it was not my intent. I am just wondering what we want the coaches to say or do when they are obligated to show up to these press conferences and answer the same questions. Unfortunately, this really comes back to the obvious.

          • DCJ1

            At least he’s not up there saying “We’re moving on to the Bengals. Next question.”

          • Steven_Searls

            I might prefer that actually.

        • Alaskan

          I’d like that.

        • Sparks

          I think he should do something along the lines….

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S2XvxDaIwCw

  • RSH
    • Russ

      Seems to me the STs are consistently mediocre, if not (like last night) downright awful. I get sticking up for your guy, but at some point something has to give. If someone up top is not willing to make a change at ST coordinator, maybe it’s time to evaluate/fire the guy that’s making that decision.

      • RSH

        My guess is that he will not be back next season if there is not dramatic improvement. There are not a ton of good or great special teams coaches floating around without jobs currently, and the Broncos assistant special teams coach is greener than Olivo.

        • Sparks

          RSH, haven’t you heard? We’re in the let’s see what we got stage of the season. Let’s give that greenhorn ST coach a couple of games manning the ST wheel and see what he produces. 🙂

        • Yahmule

          He clearly expressed his displeasure with Brock after the game last night. He doesn’t have the authority to fire anybody. So, killing the guy in the media going forward is cutting off his nose to spite his face. Vance Joseph saw his head coach from last season start flinging players under the bus. He did it again this year and the Dolphins have been outscored 24-67 in their two games since.

  • RSH
    • Nick

      Lost in all the criticism of other things is that Osweiler wasn’t bad yesterday. Not good enough either, but at least in “meh” territory.

      • RSH
        • Alaskan

          It seemed like penalties stalled drives in the red zone as much as Oz did.
          At least to me.

          • RSH

            We continue to shoot ourselves in the foot in the red zone and elsewhere.

      • Yahmule

        I thought he put some of those passes to Sanders into pretty decent coverage and he hit him in stride more often than not. I’m pleasantly surprised by Brock’s performance after an 11 month layoff and some confidence crushing experiences.

        • Steven_Searls

          He does have history with Sanders. I’m sure it didn’t hurt that E-Man has done well for him before in 2015, and I imagine the Pats double teamed DT most of the night, and didn’t worry about our TEs because why should they?

      • VonSwenson

        I still say that Siemian is a better passer than Osweiler. Statistically the only thing he’s worse at is taking sacks.

        And as we all agree, Siemian has a questionable “durability” factor.

    • Sparks

      Is Lynch still hurt or can he play if need be? Anyone know? According to Lynch himself, he could play if he was needed.

      http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/06/denver-broncos-paxton-lynch-ready/

    • Steven_Searls

      Not sure I can be triggered by anything anymore. Here’s hoping he can win a shootout with Andy “I miss Jay Gruden” Dalton.

  • RSH
    • Jeremy

      Really seems they should have IR’d him

    • Steven_Searls

      So the worst case scenario is we open next TC with another QB competition between Paxton and TBD without knowing a thing more about his ability to play in the NFL. Why do I feel that is exactly what’s going to happen?

      • RSH

        I don’t. I think that the Broncos are going to go after an established veteran this offseason.

        • Nick

          I think both a rookie and a veteran are potentially on the table this offseason.

          • Sparks

            Agreed. A rookie or Kelly if they think he’s has any potential.

          • Nick

            My guess for 2018 training camp is that there will be a minimum of 4 QBs competing.

          • Sparks

            There was 3 this time and it turns out they might have let the best one walk and then signed Os. 4 may be a good way to start hedging their bets.

          • cjfarls

            There is absolutely zero evidence they let the best walk. The first day Sloter does anything in a real game will be the first time that happens…. I wouldn’t hold my breath. Getting upset because we let a UDFA walk is just insane.

          • Sparks

            That’s fair. And I’m not upset. I let that go in preseason. I guess my point was more that out of those 3 guys, he is the only one that his current team still wants whereas the general consensus is that the Broncos will be moving on from their trio this offseason (unless PL shows something that he’s failed to show to date).

          • cjfarls

            I see no evidence that Denver doesn’t want PL or TS as at least a backup next year… which is no different than anything I’m hearing from Minny.

          • Sparks

            Not yet. Wait till they give PL a few starts. At least either are relatively cheap if they do keep them around. Assuming the whole coaching staff is not scrapped, they’d be going into their second year in the offense so that would help. I do think Kelly has some talent and if they go with a vet, which I believe they will and use a high draft pick (say 1st 3 rounds) then roster spots are being filled quickly. Unfortunately, I think that would mean the end of the road here for TS as I can’t see them moving on from PL unless he shows he’s spectacularly bad down the stretch this year.

          • cjfarls

            TS I think is still in the picture as long as no one is giving us a decent mid-round draft pick for him. He’s too cheap to let walk for nothing.

            Yes, we may sign another Vet to reset the “floor” for the team. And we likely will draft someone new too, unless we get (and pay for) a clearcut starter like Cousins/Bradford. But I still would guess either TS or PL will be kept around as the backup…. and in this case, I think TS actually has the advantage because next year I believe he’s cheaper.

            My hope for next year would be: top-3rnd draft pick presumed mid-season starter, mid-range Vet to compete for backup (early season starter), TS/PL, and Kelly. Would hope to see PL get some more snaps this year for deciding between TS/PL, but if PL shows something and no mid-range Vet can be had for a reasonable price… wouldn’t be surprised if both TS/PL went into camp next year. TS is better and cheaper than many backups out there.

            I would be quite shocked to see both come OUT of 2018 camp absent an injury, but there seems likely space for at least one of them to compete – both are still young and relatively cheap, and TS has looked no worse than current vets like Alex Smith, Keenum, etc. have at similar points in their careers.

          • Steven_Searls

            No to Bradford, and Cousins will be way too expensive.

          • cjfarls

            Agree… but Elway isn’t gonna listen to us. My “mid-range vet” would be more like a Hoyer type.

          • Nick

            On the expense question, Siemian will likely get a PPE raise to the lowest RFA tender, which could be north of $2 million. Lynch will cost less cashwise, at $1.3M, but the Broncos would incur $4.4M of dead money if they cut him. A trade cuts down that dead money to $2.5M.

          • cjfarls

            So sounds like PL is cheaper in cash, but more expensive in cap?

            No, that isn’t right…. sounds like PL is cheaper either way, and is a bigger dead-money hit to toss aside. Surprising that much of a cap hit in year 3.

          • Nick

            Correct.

          • ohiobronco

            That would be a big mistake if that happened. There are not enough reps to make that work. They need to find a way to pair it down to a vet and a couple young guys at the most.

          • Nick

            Number of reps is an issue, but if you go below four then multiple departures have to come. Osweiler will likely walk, so there’s one. Kelly I think is a lock to get one full training camp while healthy. If you add only one new QB with a limit of three, then one of Siemian or Lynch has to go, and with two then both have to go.

          • ohiobronco

            You are right but I think it is wise to make some hard decisions to avoid an overly muddy situation.

          • Nick

            If the Broncos draft a QB high then I think one of Siemian or Lynch can be traded. A training camp of one of Siemian/Lynch, Kelly, a vet and a rookie is doable in my mind.

          • ohiobronco

            That’s possible. I would prefer just Kelly, a vet and a rookie in that scenario. It’s also possible Siemian/Lynch/Osweiler is the vet.

          • Nick

            Kelly is also very expendable: if it’s obvious he’s got no future then he can be disposed of very easy and they can focus reps on the other three.

          • ohiobronco

            That is true. If they have three others they like, there is no reason not to let him just hang around in case injury or circumstances call for giving him a shot.

          • RSH

            Sure, as a body, and possible heir apparent, but I feel as though Elway will want a clear cut starter much earlier than was determined the past two training camps. We shall see.

          • Nick

            I don’t believe Elway has the luxury to get a clear cut starter earlier without some very good luck that I hope strikes.

          • Yahmule

            Definitely. There will be better established quarterbacks on the open market this year than there has been for a while. There will also be most of these guys available: Rosen, Darnold, Mayfield, Jackson, Thorson, Rudolph, Finley, Allen, Stidham, Falk, Litton and whoever I’m forgetting. Not all of them will declare, but it’s still a very deep class that could see quality arms fall into round three. A veteran stopgap could be paired with a rookie.

          • Sparks

            According to this, we’ll have Alex Smith starting and a young Luke Falk grooming in 2020. Actually kind of a fun read.

            http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/21170326/predicting-every-nfl-team-2020-qb

          • Yahmule

            Before I even open that link, I’ll say this sounds pretty plausible.

          • Sparks

            I’m on record as liking Mayfield in this draft currently, but if we have to wait till a 2nd or 3rd round (as Mayfield won’t get out of the first if he continues playing like he has), then Falk wouldn’t be a bad pick IMO. The guy has shown nice accuracy 68.3% over his college career and is set to become the all-time leading passer in the Pac-12. A 118-36 TD-INT ratio is pretty nice as well.

            https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/luke-falk-1.html

          • Nick

            Air Raid QBs still scare me. In this scenario, I would hope Falk would be the exception and Mahomes would be the rule.

          • Yahmule

            I would be happy with almost any of the ten quarterbacks I listed above. Some more than others, and most of them after a trade down or with our pick in round two. I still think I like Jarrett Stidham about as much as any of these guys – factoring in probable resource cost – and I really hope he declares.

          • Yahmule

            I’ve seen a few people compare him to Kirk Cousins and that doesn’t sound bad, especially on a second round contract.

          • Andrew

            Seeing Luke Falk mentioned multiple times in this thread just makes it apparant how bad our qb situation is he’s had some pretty low valleys in an offense that almost anybody puts up good numbers in. I’m around diehard cougar fans everyday and none of them think he’s an nfl QB. I don’t think his coach that’s benched him twice this year thinks he is either.

          • Steven_Searls

            To be honest I like Mayfield after seeing some Oklahoma games.

          • Yahmule

            I wanted to be skeptical because he’s short and he throws to nothing but four and five star recruits, but when you watch him play, you stop being concerned because he’s making plays all over the field. I’m on record as saying I prefer quarterbacks to be bloodless robots who kill dispassionately, but Mayfield’s high energy doesn’t bother me because it is clearly quite genuine.

          • ohiobronco

            They will partake in the 2018 draft class for sure. I am skeptical of the established FA quarterback. Veteran stopgaps that are better than the Sanchez/Osweiler/Orton level are a bit of a unicorn.

          • Yahmule

            I think we might also see a correlative increase in guys capable of playing at above replacement level to accommodate the influx of first and second round quarterbacks.

          • ohiobronco

            Perhaps, although that would not happen until after the draft. I think Osweiler and even Siemian may be not good enough to be happy with but good enough to be difficult to improve over.

          • Yahmule

            I think one of those guys in likely to be the stopgap veteran by default. Oz might play here cheaper than elsewhere. He and his wife missed Colorado badly as soon as they left.

          • ohiobronco

            Osweiler on a 2/10 deal plus a shiny new rookie may be sellable to the masses. That is provided he wins a few games and stays implosion free.

          • cjfarls

            I still think Oz at that price is less likely than TS at $2m (or PL if the team thinks he’s worth anything)… but if we win a few down the stretch and he looks like a plausible interim starter while a rookie gets ready, I’d be okay with it.

          • BlackKnigh

            Your last sentence – IMO – is what will most likely happen.

      • Jeremy

        Maybe I’m Naive, but I don’t think the Broncos are that stupid. If they think he has even a chance next year and he’s healthy enough to go they’ll put him out there. If he doesn’t play imo it either means he wasn’t healthy enough or they’ve essentially moved on from him.

        • Royalwithcheese

          They can’t really bring him back, can they? It’s time to wipe the slate clean and either go with an established vet or top draft pick. Kelly can be the backup.

          • gobroncos

            They don’t have to bring him back. He’s on the roster for another two years, minimum. He’s a cheap backup right now. As is TS. They’ll keep PL, TS, and throw Chad Kelley into the mix, and hopefully either another high round rookie QB, and or an established vet. The vet option is dubious. Who knows who’ll be available and what we’ll want to pay.

    • ohiobronco

      If this is the case he is violating injury reporting rules and should be fined. Lynch has not appeared on the injury report for a couple weeks.

  • The Color Orange
  • Royalwithcheese
    • The Color Orange

      Shane Ray is no DeMarcus Ware.

      • Steven_Searls

        I think they are calling less blitz packages than in the past. I could be wrong. That was one thing Ward was very good at – blitzing.

        • FarAwayBroncoFan

          We’re also often trailing, so less opportunity to let the hounds loose.

          • Yahmule

            This is a major factor, IMO. We’ve held a lead for four minutes of the last four games. We haven’t scored a first half touchdown in six games. Special teams imploding this month, too.

            OTOH, we’re not getting gashed on the ground like we were all of last season. Especially late in the year, after there was plenty of time to get things fixed.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            The offense and the special teams are just…bad. But there’s got to be something going on with the defense the last few weeks, too. Maybe it’s scheme, maybe it’s coaching. Maybe it’s anger. I don’t know. But they’re too talented to be part of a blow out, even if the offense sucks and gives the ball away. I can’t see giving them a pass when they are part of an effort that’s seen 92 points scored on us in two weeks (even if some of that were pick sixes or return TDs).

            It’s bizarre. There’s been no major injuries. Only real change is in fact an addition; Shane Ray….i guess, this must be all his fault. 😉

          • Yahmule

            I think there have been major changes on defense if people look at things over the span of the last 2.5 years. Gone are Malik Jackson, DeMarcus Ware, Danny Trevathan, Sylvester Williams, Keyvon Webster and TJ Ward. Even in the case of Ward leaving to open up reps for Simmons, you’re still losing depth and continuity.

            How many players did we add on defense between this year and last year? Domata Peko and Shelby Harris, plus minimal reps from Zach Kerr and Brendan Langley. That’s it.

            We had Ray out all season, which taxed Von and Shaq more. We also lost our depth @ ILB which has forced Todd Davis to gut it out on a bad ankle for the last couple of weeks, right when we hit the toughest past of the schedule. Talib seems to be protecting an injury, too. For their trouble, Davis is just being called a bum, while people are openly questioning Talib’s heart.

            I wouldn’t trade our defense straight up for anybody, including the higher payroll Jags, and I think Joe Woods will be regarded as one of the best coordinators in the NFL within the next two years.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            Well, I hope you’re right about Woods and within two years.

            I’m worried, but maybe it’s misplaced. They did, after all look stellar against both Dallas and Oakland.

    • Royalwithcheese

      Even their supposed strength is a weakness. That’s why I don’t believe this team is just a player or two away.

  • Nick

    Only thing missing is for the tech department to wire all those great screens up directly so Baldy doesn’t have to manually record with a camera.

    https://twitter.com/BaldyNFL/status/930026023776907264

    • DCJ1

      At a minimum, either raise the screens or get a shorter guy to run the iPhone camera — the keystoning looks like Hitchcock’s camera work in Vertigo…

    • Laces Out

      He does a great job

  • Steven_Searls

    Derek Wolfe’s assessment of the state of the Broncos: http://www.denverpost.com/2017/11/12/how-bad-are-these-sad-broncos-mark-kiszla/

    “It’s just sad. It’s real sad,” Broncos defensive end Derek Wolfe said Sunday. “It’s sad that we went from a championship-caliber team to a team that stinks and nobody respects us.”

    • The Color Orange

      I just don’t understand how this could happen when you brought in a leader of men.

      • Interesting that he said it’s not a perpetration or film study issue, but seemed to imply there was a coaching/planning concern when asked about the team repeatedly getting beat by TEs and backs on pass plays.

        Of course, last week Von backed VJ. So at this point who knows anything but the team sucks and desperately needs talent upgrades starting with QB.

        • Steven_Searls

          I think Von learned from Ware to be a leader you keep criticism of team, players or coaches, inside the locker room and not in the media. Wolfe doesn’t strike me as quite that mature yet. He’s used to winning since he got here. Can’t remember what it was like before Peyton.

    • BlackKnigh

      Thank you, Steven. I could say more – but I have little to add.
      Life is largely made up of making choices. We live or die by those choices.

  • Nick
    • Yahmule

      Don’t sweat it, fellas. You only let down an entire country and every man who ever wore that uniform.

      • gobroncos

        Ha! ouch.

  • Royalwithcheese

    I see a lot of speculation that the Broncos could get a stopgap QB and pair him with a draft pick. If that happens, where do you see the Broncos spending their dollars in free agency?

    • DCJ1

      Middle linebacker, Talib replacement, and offensive line.

      • Royalwithcheese

        I’m surprised to see corner on your list. Do you think they’re going to release Talib?

        • Steven_Searls

          I wouldn’t be surprised in either case. Keep or release.

        • DCJ1

          Yes, I think Talib is on the bubble. His play this year is down (be it age or effort) and I don’t see the Broncos paying another $11M next year for this kind of play. They will try to renegotiate, or will release him at the expense of $1M dead money.

          • Royalwithcheese

            I know PFF isn’t the be all, end all, but Talib is still a top 20 CB, and the highest rated DB on the Broncos. For $11M a year, he’s still a bargain.

            That said, I wouldn’t be shocked if they released him. He looks a bit older, and CBs do fall off a cliff. If they decide they want to use that money elsewhere (QB, perhaps?), then it’ll be time for Langley to step up .

    • Sparks

      OL. If they targeting OT in the draft, then OG and vice versa.

      • Royalwithcheese

        There is no talent at RT, so I think you can count on them signing a FA OG and drafting a RT (or two).

        • gobroncos

          or three. better to hedge your bets.

  • Nick

    Didn’t expect to see this. He’s got a lengthy start streak battle ongoing with Eli Manning.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/930218318325219329

    • Nick

      I just looked it up, and if/when Eli starts next week, he’ll surpass his brother’s streak. Rivers has 23 more games to go to get to Peyton.

  • Nick
    • Yahmule

      Having journeyman guard Jonathan Cooper helping out-of-position future journeyman guard Chaz Green is as bad as it gets. Not only did Cooper fail to stay with the play, but Green’s inside gap responsibility was taken away and he still got caught flatfooted and beaten to the outside. This really was painful to watch.

  • Broncos777

    Been traveling for work, and didn’t get to see the game. How did it go?

    I predicted 42-13 Patriots. I guess we’re not as bad as I thought….

    Haven’t watched the game, and don’t know if I will. 🙁

    • Forrest Trump

      I thought they’d show a little pride, at least.

      They rolled over almost immediately, instead.

      I wouldn’t watch it if I hadn’t.

  • Nick

    Rushing TD for McCaffrey.

    • Nick

      And old friend Julius Thomas scores a shovel pass TD.

  • Royalwithcheese
  • Royalwithcheese

    Good news, guys! Cutler says he wants to play next season!

    • Yahmule

      He probably enjoys not freezing his nuts off in Chicago.

  • Yahmule

    This could come back. Hope not.

  • Nick
    • Yahmule

      AFC seems weak at the top, too. Division leaders all flawed teams.

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I almost spit out something optimistic but caught myself.

    • ohiobronco

      The other teams in this “race” have not lost by double digits every week for a month and a half. The Broncos are in a race, but not this one.

  • Yahmule

    Give me those beautiful garbage time fantasy points, Juice.

  • Yahmule

    Nate Silver weirdly attempts to defend propagandist, who rejects the very idea.

    November 13, 2017

    October 26, 2016