It’s All Orange, Fat Man: -3/30/16

News

– The Eagles will hold a private workout with QB Carson Wentz on Wednesday.

– According to a report, the Texans and QB Brian Hoyer will part ways very soon.

– The NFL demanded a retraction of a NYT article that compared the strategies used by the NFL to the strategies used by tobacco companies (Here is the article). Which oddly enough, just confirms their article more than anything else. Mike Florio asked if they would and they NYT told the NFL to go fudge itself. 

– CB Jalen Ramsey considers himself to be the the best player in this year’s draft.

– TE Jared Cook is excited for one reason: he gets to play with a great QB.

–  The Chiefs still stand behind their decision to let LB Justin Houston play in the playoffs.

Former Temple CB Tavon Young will work out for four teams and visit two.

Analysis

– Mike Florio argues that given the harsh realities of playing the sport, the NFL should have a salary floor of $1 million per year.

– Pete Carroll says that Gus Bradley’s Jacksonville Jaguars are going to surprise a lot of people this year.

– Greg Gabriel breaks down his Top 5 CBs in the draft.

Robert Klemko is working behind the scenes of the Rams move and all of the complexities that go with it.

– Sam Monson thinks that the Titans will surprise everyone with their first pick in the draft by selecting DE DeForest Buckner.

– John Breitenbach breaks down the Alabama draft class for this year.

– Here are the Top 10 offensive players to hit free agency next year according to PFF.

– Chase Stuart calculates the adjusted value of every team’s average age and then ranks them accordingly.

Broncos

– The Judge will keep the Manning reference in the lawsuit, she will not transfer the case.

– Chris Harris was a little irked by LaDanian Tomlinson’s comment that there are no shutdown corners in the league.

Silent Death Sounds Shenanigans

– Every time Von Miller farts in front of his dance partner, he has to pay her a $100 fine.

Preach!

“Do not let what you cannot do interfere with what you can do.” – John Wooden

Published by

Dubs

I am a film coordinator for a FCS school. I am glad to be around the game of football and had the chance to learn from a lot of great people. I wouldn't be where I am without the gracious support of my family, coaches, assistants, and players. I also greatly appreciate you guys who take the time to read my stuff and show genuine appreciation. It means a ton! You guys are awesome! Twitter Handle: @FBDubs

  • bradley

    John Wooden: “Be quick, but don’t hurry.”

  • ohiobronco

    The Florio proposal has some merit. Balancing out the distribution of cap dollars a little would benefit players as a whole and only impact a small percentage of players. The impacted players at the top are still going to get payed so the real impact on them is going to be minimal. The benefit for the teams is a free agent market that more closely matches real value with market value. The current system overvalues mid career players and undervalues early and late career players.

    Counterargument: The current system is pushing veteran players out the door earlier. Maybe that’s not such a bad thing. Shorter careers mean slightly less post career damage, which is good for the game in general.

    • MarsLineman

      The other counter-argument is that older players are generally more at risk for long-term damage. For example, a RB in his 7th season who receives his 4th concussion will do more long-term damage on that 4th concussion than he did on his 1st concussion in season 1. IMO, the progressive nature of many football injuries supports a progressive minimum pay-scale for veteran players

    • Jeremy

      I think the current rookie pay scale is a classic example of during negotiations, unions catering to current union members, and totally screwing over future union members.

      The same thing has happened with pilots unions. Sr pilots make a quarter of a million dollars while rookie pilots don’t make even $20,000.

      I don’t think the current system is fair. As it stands now, if you want to be set for life from football earnings, even if you very frugal and managed your money completely responsibly (which no one does) than you would have to make it to your second contract, which basically mandates that you would have to play 5 to 7 years. (some first rounders would make enough for this to not be the case, but very rare)

      • ohiobronco

        I agree that the agreement clearly benefits the established players that control the NFLPA. On the other hand, the former system did also unfairly benefit unproven top ten picks.

        • I’d suggest some modifications to the current pay scale. A possibility could be to allow drafted players an alternative to a “standard” contract, where they exchange how much they are paid for how long the contract is.

          Say, allow a player to take less money in exchange for signing just a three-year deal, which allows them to get to their second contract sooner. Or allow a player to take more money in exchange for being locked up with the team for five years.

          They could also re-visit how the fifth-year option for first-round picks is handled. Either eliminate it entirely or bump up the salary for that option considerably. I’d be OK with keeping it as an injury-only guarantee, but raising the salary might limit teams exercising the option to those players who clearly prove they are worthy of a top-dollar contract.

          • cjfarls

            I think the 5th year option for top-10 picks is fair (the transition tag number). Just extend that to all 1st rounders.

          • Lonestar47

            Could be Wrong on this but pretty sure the five year option is for all first round picks.

          • cjfarls

            Five year option is available for all picks, but the salary they earn in that option is different depending on where they were drafted.

          • ohiobronco

            The standard 4 year contract eliminated most of the RFA disputes that were an issue in the old system.

          • Lonestar47

            Owners are not going to give up the 4-5 year contracts for rookies. NOT going to happen n

            The whole idea to be able to pay for those second contracts was to get “cheap ” labor for the first contract.

            As mentioned above the prior contract gave the unproven players a mint and many were flops. Thus the reason why they all agreed to this current contract. Which is by far the fairest of all of them that I’ve seen.

        • Jeremy

          Agreed, but i think it flipped too far the other way.

          One thing, I don’t believe minimum salaries or rookie pay scales are indexed to the cap, which I think would have helped a lot, as those numbers would have seen the 7-8% raises every year.

          The rookie minimum was 375k in 2011, while the salary cap was 120 mil.
          The salary cap has increased 29% to 155.3 mil, while the rookie minimum has only increased to 450k, or 20%

          If it had increased with the cap, it would have gone up to 485k, which may not seem like a lot but it adds up.

          Things look even worse if you look at a 4th-6th year veteran. There minimum salary has only gone from 685k in 2011 to 760k in 2016, or an 11% increase. Indexed to the cap they’d be at 988k.

      • Snipe

        That’s the way it should be. Why should some rookie get paid more to learn on the job? You might get 2-3 crappy years from a QB, lineman, etc while paying top dollar. If you are going to get paid big bucks on your rookie contact it should be incentive based, rather than just draft position

        • Jeremy

          They should definitely make less, but the pendulum swung too far. I’m not saying we should go back to the contracts Bradford got, but there is a happy medium.

          Oz will go from making 2 mil last year to 17 mil. Jackson went from making 1.5 mil to 14 mil. There’s no reason the disparity should be that high. The way the rookie pay scale is there is no way any drafted player can make any significant money until their 5th year. Their contracts are bared from including any significant performance incentives. The league offers some incentives for players who outperform their rookie contracts, but they are very minimal and less than a few hundred thousand.

          You could light up the league for the first 4 years and then get hit with a career ending injury and be left with peanuts relative to the performance you provided.

          • Snipe

            I’m with you on that. Should be a better minimum, but lower maximum, or a maximum that is influenced by playing and playing well. The difficult thing is making tons to be a game day inactive. Not everyone SHOULD get the opportunity to retire for the rest of their lives after 4 years.

    • Lonestar47

      Do not forget that the bottom half or more of the roster are either on rookie contracts or signed as UDFA with cheap contracts mostly under 500 k.

      Without looking at the nine RZ is guess that 20+ players would double their money and add some 10mil plus to the cap.

      That money would have to come from somewhere. It is not coloring to come from the top pick rookies and not going to come from the Franchise players Von Manning Harris ware Talib Etc etc. that means those middle players are going to take a hit. Marshall Wolfe almost all of the OL and TEs.

      Players have the option of NOT accepting such a pittance of 500k plus bennies not to mention the prestige of being a Bronco, they also would have the ability of getting a really good second contract.

      The NFLPA is not going to allow minimums like that. Because those players that are making the big bucks or have dreams of it are not going to vote for them.

      500 K is a hell of a lot more than 99% of the college grads get coming out of school n

  • MarsLineman

    A a daily reader/ subscriber to the NY Times, I should probably point out that they seem to have made an editorial decision that football is a brutal sport which needs abolishing (based on the op-eds and editorials they’ve published on the topic). This doesn’t discredit their reporting at all, but I think it’s important to note their bias.

    • SteveS

      I also read the NYT and would somewhat disagree with your characterization. I don’t think they’ve made an overall editorial decision, but instead, have run stories that point out the dangers inherent within football, boxing, hockey, soccer, etc. with respect to concussions and cumulative effects. Most importantly, they’ve also pointed out the financial interests of owners and other stakeholders and the obfuscation/foot-dragging, both historically and that continues in the face of wanting to maintain and expand those stakes. Don’t get me wrong – I realize that life itself is not “safe” and I love the game of football, both as a former player and now as an avid watcher, but it is imperative that the stakeholders all understand the risks as much as possible and work hard at trying to address them via research, rules and perhaps future compensation/medical care while promoting the game and without denigrating findings that don’t fit their preferred narrative.

  • SterlingMalloryArcher

    If Hoyer is released he’ll sign with the Broncos roughly 5 seconds later, and we should be happy about it. It’s good to have options.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      It’s good to have good options… 😉

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Hoyer would be a large upgrade over last year. But even if we don’t consider him good, and least he’ll be cheap.

        He was 18th in passer rating, just ahead of Derek Carr last year. Perhaps more importantly, he was picked of on just 1.9% of his passes, 9th best in the NFL. (Peyton Manning was picked off on 5.1% of his throws and finished 34th in passer rating).

        Hoyer has been my first choice (other than Fitzpatrick who’s too expensive) since the moment Os signed with Houston. I may have to buy a jersey.

        http://www.pro-football-reference.com/years/2015/passing.htm

        • ohiobronco

          He’s a decent below average starter. The reason he is available is because he is injury prone and inconsistent.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Yeah, well we’re not exactly shopping at Saks here. It’s the clearance rack at Target. But at least we won’t go broke!

          • ohiobronco

            Quite true.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Agree, he wasn’t horrible last year, except for that playoff game, but ¯_(ツ)_/¯

          He’s fine…I guess. He’ll be able to take snaps and throw the ball past the line of scrimmage…I guess. I bet he’s pretty good at………..zzzzzz……. Sorry, dozed off there thinking about Hoyer 😉

          I mean, this is our guy? A guy who couldn’t stick in Cleveland and Houston?

          Honestly, if it wasn’t for the Kap possibility, I’d be behind it. But the point is, you can get this kind of setup any year, every year. We could do this next year, get a guy like a “Sanchez” or a “Hoyer” and draft some middling guy who won’t ever turn in to much like a Lynch or a Prescott… They do hold the draft every year and there are guys like this in it every year…

          But what doesn’t happen every year is the opportunity to acquire a guy who has a little extra something at the very least….and at a low cost. The discussion around Kap is that the trade cost and the contract cost are somehow exorbitant. Not seeing how a 2nd rounder and his contract are any sort of issue….

          So, take the shot with Kap. What’s the worst thing that can happen? He stinks, you lose the 2nd and you cut him and go with the “Snoozer QB” option again next year and draft a guy.

          Best case? He plays like he did before with good coaching and you have your guy under contract until 2020….

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I think Hoyer is next year’s Fitzpatrick. He’ll have a career year and then price himself right out of town just in time to turn it over to a young guy in 2017 or 2018.

          • Snipe

            Kaep sucks

          • bradley

            And he’s damaged.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Ok, hope everyone enjoys QB wasteland… It’s super fun!

            http://www.buffalobruises.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/kyle-orton.jpeg

          • Nick

            Orton’s still better than the majority of QBs on the Browns since they were resurrected.

          • Snipe

            I just disagree with you that Kaepernick will remove us from QB wasteland. To me his isn’t an upgrade, we’ll have to give up a draft pick to get him, and might have to pay him 11 million to find out he isn’t an upgrade.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            That’s exactly right. Here’s the contract for last year’s #31 pick, Stephone Anthony. I’d rather pay Paxton Lynch about $2M/year over 4 years to find out if he’s any good than pay 6x that to find out if Kaepernick is.

            http://overthecap.com/player/stephone-anthony/3879/

          • Rhett Rothberg

            But the point is that it is a low risk move…

            I think I’ve made my point on the draft pick…

            As far as Kap goes, his contract is year to year. Just like the 49ers could cut him right now and not owe his salary for this year, Denver could do the same next year….unless he’s good, then he’s under contract through 2020 and he’s 28.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Now that is a point worth exploring though…

            There is the school of thought that one fairly successful model for winning a super bowl is to do it while your QB is in their “first contract window”…

            Historically/last 10-15 years –> Flacco, Wilson (48, 49), Roethlisberger (40), Kaepernick…

            Those QB’s generally went up against the iconic QB on the other side.

            So that is a model…but of course that guy in his first contract also has to be, typically, a guy who turns into one of those “elite” types.

          • cjfarls

            QB purgatory is rough for sure. But squandering/over-paying resources trying to get out of it doesn’t help get us out. It just means we have less resources to help deal with the QB situation (or help our next QB succeed) in the future.

          • ohiobronco

            I think your “boring QB” thing is more about quality and upside. Pocket passers are exciting if they are good, they complete lots of exciting passes. Players with upside are exciting because of the hope for the future. Orton, Sanchez, et al. are below average pocket passers with no upside. I think that’s your issue more so than “excitement” per se.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Yup, that is certainly part of it… The word is really more of “compelling”… It’s fun to have a QB who has potential or flair or something. Again, a lot of this was born out of suffering through the Orton era. That guy was not compelling on any front. Could he throw a nice ball, absolutely. But it wasn’t compelling…

            For all his faults, the next year, in comes Tebow, and I was entertained. The guy was a terrible NFL QB, but that 2011 season was fantastic…

            So, there is of course a fine line…but, I just fear a return to the Orton era.

          • ohiobronco

            I like Orton fine as a person. I got tired of seeing him get trucked on 3rd down because of lack of pocket awareness and decision speed.

          • T. Jensen

            There’s nothing more exciting than bouncing a ball off an opponents head and having the slot receiver grab it and take it all the way home.

          • cjfarls

            Problem with Kap is your paying a guy that may be no better, if not worse, than Sanchez/Hoyer.

            Sure the upside is there, but at his salary, you can’t really keep him as a backup. He becomes the presumptive starter, and may simply not be that anymore post-injury. And if you’re trading significant draft resources for him, you’re tearing down other parts of the team.

            I’m fine with Sanchez, Siemien, and not reaching for a draft pick. If that means we don’t get a pick until the 3rd or 4th that we think is decent value, fine… try again next year.

            If Kap can be obtained at value (I’d give one of our 3rds), great. But overpaying for Kap is likely more dangerous than overpaying for a pick, simply because the presumption that comes with his contract.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Yup, give him a year. If he stinks it up, cut him.

            As far as the draft thing goes, again, any individual pick is not particularly valuable…

            Picking a QB in the late rounds is also not valuable…it doesn’t work

          • cjfarls

            Your insistence that any individual pick is not valuable is just perplexing. Picks are players. Higher picks are likely better players. And these players are cheap.

            Individual picks are EXTREMELY valuable.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Tim Crowder, Alphonso Smith, Richard Quinn, Tim Tebow, Montee Ball, Darcell McBath, Jarvis Moss, Terry Pierce, Paul Toviessi, Kenoy Kennedy, Montae Reagor…. These are all 1st and 2nd round picks from the last 15 years… These picks were not in any way valuable…

            Max Garcia, Malik Jackson, Danny Trevathan, Julius Thomas, David Bruton, Elvis Dumerville, CJ Anderson, Chris Harris, and Mike Anderson… These are all 4th round picks and below (even undrafted) from the same period. These picks were valuable.

            Now, of course, there are 1st and 2nd rounders who were valuable, and 4th and below who weren’t. My point is simply, if we’re debating the 2nd round pick in 2016 for the Broncos w/ regard to Kap, then I have a hard time believing that particular pick is specifically valuable…. It’s just not possible to confirm that….

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I don’t think Shanahan’s 2nd round picks are representative of the talent available there. He was a terrible, terrible drafter. Let’s instead look at Elway’s 2nd round picks, which should be more appropriate since it’s still Elway doing the picking.

            2011: Rahim Moore, Orlando Franklin
            2012: Derek Wolfe, Brock Osweiler
            2013: Montee Ball
            2014: Cody Latimer
            2015: Ty Sambrailo

            Of that list only Montee Ball can be written off as a total waste, and they even got a little production out of him. Jury is still out on Latimer, though we should be able to make a call on that one by the end of 2016. Still too early for Sambrailo too, though my instinct is we’ll be adding him to the whiff column as well. But the bottom line is 5 of the 6 known quantities that came from the second round from 2011-2013 became starters on good football teams.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            But to circle around to the point of the discussion, if you give up a 2nd round pick for Kaepernick, you can’t tell me that would be any worse than using it to actually draft a player…

            Worst case he completely washes out, a la Ball… That seems unlikely. If you trade a 2nd round pick for Kap, you are essentially “drafting” him and you can’t tell me he isn’t at least as good of quality as the guys in your list above….and certainly better than my list of wash outs….

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Moore, maybe, but Kaep is not nearly the player that Wolfe, Osweiler and Franklin are. I expect the second round pick to be used on an interior defensive lineman that will factor heavily into the rotation immediately. Or at least quality depth at LB, S, OL or TE. All of those represent a better addition to the team than Kaepernick for a 2nd rounder and $12M, IMO. I think Kaepernick MIGHT be better than Sanchez, but he’s not better than Hoyer or McCown, so if we can acquire one of those two we’re talking about Kaep, loss of a 2nd round pick and $12M vs Hoyer/McCown for about $5M and no draft capital.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Again, this gets down to, I suppose, the fundamentals upon which we are arguing…

            I certainly see value in your approach and don’t dismiss it…

            But as to Kaep not being better than Sanchez, well, I think that is pretty easily argued…just look at those INT, completion % and rating numbers. Kap wins easily…

            As to Hoyer, there is room for debate:

            Kaepernick (2012-2014) has Hoyer (2014 – 2015) beat in some key stats like the INT%, and Rate+. These of course don’t tell the whole story by any means. But I think dismissing Kap as a QB is not as easy as some make it out to be…

            http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HoyeBr00.htm
            http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KaepCo00.htm

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Well he at least WAS better than Sanchez, but I don’t think 2012-2014 Kaepernick exists anymore.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            That’s fair…that’s the crux of the argument.

          • cjfarls

            I still don’t get your argument. Something like 30% of first round picks “bust”… 40% of second rounders… 60% of 3rd rounders, etc..

            “Busts” happen in every round, but the likelihood is very strongly correlated with the round they are picked. Higher picks in general are better players, and the scouts do in fact tend to know what they are doing.

            So yes, any individual pick can bust. That doesn’t mean the pick is valueless as an individual pick.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            It’s essentially a look at how the uniform probability distribution works…

            As a whole, the total probability of the distribution is 1 (100%), but the probability of any single event occurring in that set is zero….because there are an infinite number of possible events in the distribution.

            So the point is, I’m looking at this from the risk management perspective again and using the fact that the probability that any single draft pick is important is pretty low…

            The risk being analyzed is that the given player essentially washes out. Let’s analyze it under the two scenario’s:

            1. Random 2nd round pick – The probability that a random (late in this case) 2nd round draft pick washes out it fairly high I think…let’s say 50% (or 5 out of 10). The impact of that occurring is also significant, let’s call it moderate, (7 out of 10) because you used a pick that is (for some reason) valuable within the league and you got essentially nothing out of it. So lets give that a score of 35…

            2. Kapernick acquired with a (late) 2nd round pick: The probability that Kapernick washes out is fairly low (now of course this is where there can be an argument), let’s say 20% (or 2 out of 10), given that he has shown to be very successful in the league. You have some real evidence and certainty as to who the guy is as an NFL player. The impact of him washing out has to be the same as draft pick, (7 out of 10), I’d even grant an 8 given his salary. So this is a score of 16.

            This risk analysis would say that option 2 is preferred.

          • cjfarls

            Okay, that still doesn’t mean the pick is worthless… it just means its discounted by the uncertainty of the player. So say a 2nd round pick has a 50% chance of washing out (I think its closer to 35/40, but whatever)…. you still have a liklihood of getting a potentially very good player, and at a relatively cheap price compared to Kaps or a FA contract. 7 out of 10 2nd round picks don’t underperform their contracts, so if that is your claim I think you are just totally wrong.

            but I get the argument that a pick has uncertainty. Absolutely. But a pick has upside too, which you disregard. At minimum a pick is cheaply filled roster slot, which is almost guarunteed upside.

            This I think is the disagreement… most folks think the probability of Kap washing out are far higher than 20%. The chance of him underperforming his contract are even higher. We have evidence of him as a player… and the most recent evidence is he’s not a very good one.

          • cjfarls

            Late(r) QBs are low(er) likelihood of success… that doesn’t mean it doesn’t work ever.

            Besides, we use the very low picks on other positions, and if we hit there that means next year we don’t have big needs that we have to use our higher round picks on, freeing up those resources for going after a QB we like.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            It essentially doesn’t work ever… I noted yesterday that I can think of maybe 4 QB’s over the past 15 years that were “developed” or came from essentially nowhere….

            In the NFL, the good QB’s are the ones you see coming. Dark horses don’t happen.

          • cjfarls

            QBs certainly have a very steep probability curve. Late(r) round QBs succeeding are indeednvery rare. That doesn’t mean that pick (which can be used on positions where the curve is not so steep) is valueless.

            I’m not in favor of reaching for QB in the draft. I’m not in favor for reaching for Kap. Kap has to justify not only his draft compensation, but also the high salary he comes with. That’s a steep hurdle too.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Its fair…just to make sure we’re all on the same page…he doesn’t have a high salary for a good starter…he’s actually quite cheap… Not Sanchez cheap, but, we all know why he gets what he gets.

          • cjfarls

            Salary wise, the question is whether he is $10m more per year better than Sanchez (or really $13m more than a draft pick). If we thought there is a strong likelihood of getting 2012-2013 Kap, it is certainly worth it… and certainly incremental performance at the high level is pricey for QBs (as the only player that touches the ball every snap). But that’s a lot of cash that could be rolled over to next year for someone that has downward trending stats the past 2 years and lost a QB battle to one of the worst QBs in the league over the past few years.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Agree… but I just don’t think you can analyze his 2014-2015 in a vacuum. There were major external issues in that organization… I also don’t think you can just dismiss out of hand the 2012-2013 performance. Too long to be fluky.

            But this is just me of course… Still, does everyone just think he went bad, end of story?

          • cjfarls

            Given his stats declines were a long term trend (worse every year) and not a blip, there is a good argument that he may have been “figured out”.

            And like RG3, there are some issues with his injury that mean his recent performance may be more indicative of his future performance than his early years.

            Like I said, I’d give one of our 3rds for him (late thirds essentially a equating to a borderline starter in most cases). But more than that seems exceedingly risky.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Well, discounting 2015, did they decline? Not sure that’s the case. I think it’s the opposite. The one thing that sticks out to me is his turnover stats, super low.

            Again, I’m not calling it a slam dunk, but for the potential, I think the cost is pretty cheap.

            http://m.pfref.com/m?p=XXplayersXXKXXKaepCo00.htm&t=0

          • Rhett Rothberg

            To your first sentence… Go look at Sanchez’s turnover stats vs. Kaps…

            Sanchez hasn’t seen an INT he hasn’t liked…

            Kap has 31 in his career, including playoffs. Manning threw 17 last year. Sanchez has….wait for it…. 87!!!

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            To be clear, I liked this for the good humor regarding your Hoyer-induced narcolepsy, not for the love of Kaepernick.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Well, I’ll take that too…

            Editorial Note (aka Laces Out bait): I don’t have specific love for Kap, I rather have a fondness for the opportunity that has presented itself at a time when we are debating Hoyer/Sanchez/McCown as the starting QB here…

          • drewthorn

            Not that you’re any different than me, but just because you believe a thing, it’s not automatically true. Plenty of equally smart and thoughtful people think this is a pretty solid and deep QB class.

            You’ll remember me, SMA also, when you’re forking over the greenbacks for your brand new Pescott Jersey. ?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Of course. I don’t claim in any way to hold the high ground or to be right. Never have, never will. That’s not my thing.

            I am also a firm adherent to seeking to believe that are true and based on evidence. Now, that’s not alway easy in this realm as there is some variability and the fact that past evidence doesn’t necessary lead to solid future events.

            I, of course, reserve the right to be wrong….and I very well may be. But, as stated, I would be shocked if Lynch turns out to be any good and if Prescott starts more than 8 games in his career.

          • drewthorn

            The only case in which I emphatically disagree is Goff. He’s not only technically sound, but he has the ‘money’ stats (career starts, completion %, starts against quality opponents, etc) and– in my opinion vitally important– he looks smug and arrogant taking a snap, as if that’s so exactly where he belongs that it’s boring.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I’ll add that I was intrigued by Prescott, but that led me to think a little further on this whole “developmental QB” thing… And what you see historically is that it pretty much never pans out….almost to the point of being able to say actually never…

    • ohiobronco

      A Sanchez/Hoyer situation would not be terrible in the short term considering the options available. You’d end up with two essentially interchangeable QBs which is good in case of injury. As a fan I would like to see more future upside in the mix. Also, options can lead to a muddled situation. Some times fewer options with clearer roles is better. Orton, Tebow, Quinn, Weber, a lot of options there.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        (I posted something similar in another thread so forgive the repetition.)

        All part of the plan as I see it. Bring in Hoyer or McCown (both are likely better options than Sanchez) and draft one as well. Take Hoyer/McCown, Sanchez, the rookie, and Siemian into camp. Start the winner of the competition between Hoyer/McCown and Sanchez. Cut either Siemian or the vet that loses the battle to start. If it’s Siemian, possibly resign him to the practice squad.

        • ohiobronco

          I see your logic but I don’t like splitting up reps that much, especially giving them to someone who doesn’t end up on the team. All of these guys have enough sample size that you know what they are without holding a competition.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I think you’ve got to see what they can do in this offense, with these players around them, and how they respond to this coaching staff. They generally do take 4 QBs into camp. But this scenario would result in a lot of rep sharing on the first team.

          • ohiobronco

            I’ve been thinking that maybe the practice of carrying 4 QBs is a mistake unless one is a pure camp arm. Maybe it’s a fantasy but I like the concept of a development system similar to what the Packers used to do. They had the benefit of more offseason time. In the current system you have to be very careful about OTA/Camp reps if you want to do any development at all. With two QBs in charge and a relatively stable organization, it seems like the way to manage the league wide QB shortage/crisis thing.

          • Snipe

            McCown did pretty well with below average wide receivers. I’d like to see him in competition with our offense

          • drewthorn

            My initial reaction to the McCown idea was negative, but I guess I didn’t quite realize how well he has played the last couple years. His recklessness might be viewed as unnecessarily counterproductive, though. Throw in his age, and Clevend would have to be almost giving him away.

            I think it would be entertaining and to see Hoyer come in a outplay Oz this season. Again.

  • MarsLineman

    Please excuse my over-abundance in the comments section the past couple days. My work is in a rare bit of auto-pilot, so I’ve been hanging out here with you fine folk (normally I’m an obscene workaholic).

    But I finally took a look at some tape of Kaepernick from 2015, after mostly missing his appearances in a bad 49ers season (and after reading the below article, originally linked by Dubs).

    What I saw immediately changed my opinion of his future prospects. His injury issues are no joke. I scouted week 4 (vs the Packers) and compared it to his week 4 matchups in the 2013-14 seasons. His performance was clearly, deeply affected by injuries in 2015. And these injuries appear related to his throwing mechanic. This makes recovery to pre-injury levels much less likely, although I would need more study to give a confident prediction.

    I’m starting to think that Elway is very wise to avoid betting the farm on Kaepernick. He may fall into the category of players who are damaged beyond repair (like RG3).

    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_29695517/colin-kaepernicks-surgeries-could-guarantee-his-2016-salary

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Keep the comments coming. We’ll never discourage intelligent input around here.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Seconded ^^^^

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Haven’t talked about Clady for a few days now. I’m guessing no trade partners.

    • Rhett Rothberg
      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Absolutely not. That move from 31 to 37 is a big move back at that point in the draft. SF would need to pony up a couple additional picks.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Its essentially Kap for Clady…. Why not?

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Again, and this is just me… but 6 spots? You’re going to have to quantify that impact for me in terms of significance, I don’t see it… (Note: you don’t have to…but you can if you want 🙂 )

          The draft is such a crap shoot, that I just have a hard time believing that you will be permanently damaged by moving down 6 spots…

          • Jeremy

            According to the draft chart, 31st to 37th is worth a mid-4th rounder.

            You lose the 5th year option though.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            It’s all about where the picks are in the draft. Late picks are a dime a dozen, and moving down several spots in the 5th, 6th or 7th round is no big deal. You might even get the same guy you were after a few picks earlier. But the 1st/early 2nd is a whole different animal. Those picks are exponentially more valuable because of the talent left on the board. Moving down from 31 to 37 might mean there’s 4 or 5 less impact players, maybe pro bowlers, and some of those may have filled a need. This year it could mean the difference between having a long term starter at QB or not.

          • ohiobronco

            If you think Kap is not a crap shoot you are deluding yourself.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            There is some risk, but not much (again with risk being a combination of the probability of a thing happening and the negative impact of that event)…

            if he’s bad, ok, no problem. Cut him and move on. They hold the draft next year too… Might even have a better pick.

          • ohiobronco

            I think you are underestimating both risk and negative impact.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I should say, as commented on below, that it is probability and impact.

            I’m not seeing how he would have any more of a negative impact of a 2nd round pick not playing well… And that doesn’t seem to be that big a deal.

            Someone is going to have to help me on the negative impact part… What is to lose with going in on a Kap experiment? Especially over a McCown/Hoyer one…

          • ohiobronco

            -Loss of players and/or future dead money to fit him under the cap
            -Draft picks which we probably disagree on the value. A non-QB second rounder is going to have a much higher chance of success. A QB second rounder is going to have a much longer timeframe to have an opportunity to pan out.

            Basically, if he were on the open market the risk is much more similar to McCown/Hoyer.

          • T. Jensen

            I think the significance is in the 5th year option. Other than that the value should be there either way.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            The 5th year option is great…if you want to exercise it 🙂 I wonder how many first rounders have had it not picked up since that was implemented?

          • T. Jensen

            No clue would be interesting though. But that’s really the only difference in 31 and 37 IMO. Look at Wolfe for example. We could have had him late at 31 but we knew he’d be available at 36. So we traded back and got him.

      • Jeremy

        No way the niners do this

      • The Color Orange

        The 49ers don’t need a left tackle.

      • Snipe

        Me.

    • Nick

      No rush to trade him or cut him unless they need his cap space.

      And on a very surreal related note, I had a dream that it was draft day. The Titans took Laremy Tunsil first overall, as many expected, but then the Browns surprised many by taking Joey Bosa instead of a QB, although this made Ohio State fans happy. Last thing I could remember is that the Broncos had traded their 5th and Clady to NYG for their 2nd, and all the analysts were thinking the Broncos were prepping for a tradeup in the 1st to get a QB so that the Browns couldn’t do the same coming from one pick behind them in the 2nd.

      I don’t think the Broncos can get that much out of Clady, but I guess it was fun to literally dream!

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Inception!

        Maybe you’re dreaming right now… spooky

      • InSiemianWeTrust

        Dream? Or VISION? In all seriousness, I think we make a trade after draft day. If the LT needy teams miss out on Stanley/Conklin and don’t see a player worth drafting in round 2, Clady’s stock goes up considerably.

  • Nick

    So to wrap up the tournament, Terrell Davis beat Steve Atwater by a score of 17-8. I’ve added a small link to the bracket in the sidebar for historical purposes It was a fun exercise, thanks to all for participating! The main takeaway I have from it is this: neither of the final contestants are HOF members. Get that shit fixed, Canton.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      Send that to Legwold! he needs all the help he can get…. Or to be removed as the HOF media rep from Denver (even better)

    • Jeremy

      Lot of fun. Would people be interested in doing another one of these? I was thinking maybe greatest Bronco games? Maybe exempt super bowl wins? I could help set it up but maybe we wait until June with things are pretty dead?

      • Nick

        I’ll probably wait until next March after free agency is died down just to keep the reason for the season. But greatest Broncos games sounds like a good idea. I have to think that the playoff game at Arrowhead will be an easy #1 seed.

        • Jeremy

          Alright I’ll plan on doing a greatest game tournament after the draft. I’ll have to think how seeding will work.

    • Sparks

      I didn’t participate, Nick, but I really enjoyed reading about it everyday. Thanks for putting it together.

  • bradley
    • ohiobronco
      • Nick

        Trade/cut Clady, cut Colquitt, and do a full restructure on Chris Harris. That’s the likeliest way to do it.

        • ohiobronco

          That would get them there but would leave little margin for anything else. There have been multiple numbers floating around but it looks like his cap number if traded would be $13.4M. Some have said $14.3M but part of his per game roster bonuses will be NLTE because he was out for 7 games last year. If I’m Kap I look in the mirror, realize I have a questionable future in the league and make the prudent business decision to not forgo anything I am already owed. Any modification would need to be of the restructure variety and not the pay cut variety.

          • babsonjr

            …Hence the reason why Elway will wait until he is cut….if at all.

          • ohiobronco

            If he was released, the whole thing would start to make a lot more sense.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          Would they even need to restructure Harris in that scenario?

          • Nick

            It would be very close. Eventually they’d need to make some other move to take on rookies and have a fund for regular season transactions.

          • Not necessarily. They could convert some of Kaep’s 2016 money into a signing bonus, because the prorated bonus from the original contract wouldn’t count against the Broncos’ cap.

          • Nick

            They’d have to do that after acquiring Kaepernick’s current deal, though.

        • Royalwithcheese

          What we don’t know is how they would handle Kap’s contract. Kawakami has said Kap is willing to restructure his deal, which I’m guessing would bring his cap number down for at least the first year.

          • Nick

            There aren’t a lot of good ways to alter a contract before trading for it. Only one I can think of is if the 49ers were willing to eat some of his contract, and I doubt they would without even more draft compensation.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Mase’s latest mock has us passing on Lynch and picking Nkemdiche. Not a fan with of Nkemdiche. There’s a difference between single off-the-field infractions (Roby, Ray) and repeated question marks. That said, off the field behavior isn’t what pushes me away. It’s his motor. Guy openly described himself as lazy, and only produced 6.5 sacks over three years. You can’t teach love for the sport (*cough* Julius Thomas). Don’t want to hear about unlocking his potential with Kollar. We need high motor guys ala Wolfe and CHJ, not this guy.

    • bradley

      I hope we pass on him. That way i won’t have to learn how to pronounce his name.
      (Also, I’ve seen mocks with him falling to the 3rd.)

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      He’s so talented they have to consider him, but I’m hoping someone else takes him so we don’t have to. But if it’s between Nkemdiche and Lynch, it’s Lynch all the way.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      You’re exactly right about Nkemdiche. He’s got all the attributes you look for except for what I like to call “give-a-shit.” 2015’s Vernon Davis comes to mind. Talented guy, but he has no give-a-shit whatsoever.

      • Hercules_Rockefeller

        LOL. I’d love to see “give a shit” replace phrases like “intangibles” or “high-motor player”. Or better yet, the next time we lose a game we should have won, I’d love to hear Elway say “I just don’t feel we gave a shit” instead of “kicking and screaming, and then that can become the Broncos’ unofficial motto…

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          It’s a valid attribute! “I don’t know…How many shits does he give, Matt Russell?” “Zero. Zero shits, John. Nkemdiche gives exactly zero shits.”

        • ohiobronco

          http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2016/03/15/johnny-manziel-nfl-cleveland-browns

          “If Johnny doesn’t have a carrot dangling in front of him, he resorts to
          his default,” says a friend. “And his default is not giving a s—.”

  • Nick

    So something I just realized that’s fairly surprising: Louis Vasquez is still unsigned. He’s still under 30, played at a high level not too long ago, and since he was cut he won’t count against compensatory picks. I figured someone would have scooped him up by now.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Those knee problems might be pretty significant, and I wonder what his asking price is?

    • ohiobronco

      Older players with injury history are often pushed to the 3rd wave. We are now in the dead period between the 2nd and 3rd waves.

      • Nick

        Zane Beadles is slightly older and he got signed. SMA may be right that there could be injury and/or overpricing concerns.

      • Hercules_Rockefeller

        someone’s going to get a pretty good bargain on Vasquez if you ask me. Assuming he’s healthy (and he’s shown an ability to play through nagging injuries, so he has that to his advantage) he’s definitely an impact player in the right system.

        There’s a lot of value to be had in that third wave of free agency; I think we’re likely to pick up a a few decent role players between now and the start of camp. I’m guessing we pick up a LB, O-line depth, safety depth, a long snapper, possibly a TE and also Arian Foster (assuming he looks like he’s healthy

  • Jason Fitzgerald shared this link on Twitter about the RFA contract the Bears offered to Saints TE Josh Hill, which the Saints matched.

    http://blogs.theadvocate.com/blackandgold/2016/03/30/full-josh-hill-contract-details/

    Odd that a no-trade clause would be added for a player not considered one of the best at his position (and such clauses are rare in the NFL). Also, that the roster bonus was prorated, which Jason wonders was the Saints converting it because the current Bears front office hasn’t shown it will use a structure like that.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Was the no-trade clause perhaps an attempt to discourage the Saints from matching the offer?

      • Perhaps, but it still seems a bit strange, given how rare such clauses are in NFL contracts.

        The bigger question would be the roster bonus. That’s the first time I’ve heard of a roster bonus being prorated, unless the writer confused it with the roster bonus being converted into a signing bonus after the Saints matched it.

        • Nick

          As we’ve learned from Mike Klis’s reporting on CJ Anderson (another RFA signing), writers from larger, more traditional media can struggle with the details of contracts at times. I don’t blame them too much for it though, since the majority of their readers really don’t care about the details needed to squeeze a player into the cap.

          • ohiobronco

            They could at least understand the details even if they don’t go into it in their articles. I think it’s about being from an older age when all the fine details weren’t readily available like they are now. As a reader it’s important to understand the strengths and weaknesses of each source. For Klis, it’s inside access and a general sense of the big picture.

    • Nick

      On a related note, take a look at Nick Fairley’s contract with the Saints:

      http://overthecap.com/player/nick-fairley/1812/

      What should have been a simple 1 year, 3 million deal is a convoluted mess with two void years and a fully guaranteed contract because there was no other way to fit it into what they’re doing.

      • Jeremy

        What’s the difference between what they did, and what you suggest the Broncos do with Chris Harris, converting his salary into a bonus that would be prorated for cap purposes? Seems either way you are just borrowing from future cap years.

        • Nick

          With a typical restructure, the money you’re moving at least resides in a year in which the player is scheduled to still be on the team. With Fairley’s deal they’ve pretty much accepted that they’re going to eat almost $1.5M in dead money right from the start.

          • Jeremy

            It just seems for all intents and purposes the exact same as signing him to a 1 year, 3 million dollar deal and restructuring another player’s contract to move 1.5 million dollars into future cap years.

            I get it’s a sign that you probably are desperate and have maxed out those opportunities, but to me, borrowing from future cap dollars is borrowing from future cap dollars.

  • The Color Orange
    • Nick

      I thought this might happen quite a while ago, and it’s something Marshall certainly shouldn’t take off the table. I wouldn’t be surprised if he and Von Miller work out together outside of Dove Valley.

    • drewthorn

      …because, you know, without the Broncos and John Elway, he’d be selling cellular plans or throwing a party because the Raiders tagged him at all.

      Dramatic? Perhaps. But Brandon Marshall is exactly the example of how fine the line between obscurity and stardom can be in the NFL.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        After his tweet about “everyone getting paid except for [him]” and now the holdout, I wonder why we aren’t ripping him for being too sensitive like we did Osweiler.

        • InSiemianWeTrust

          He has every reason to hold out, and without Danny has the ball in his court. BMarsh may only have one 5M*4 years contract left. Brock makes that in 1 year.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I don’t blame either player for their decisions. It’s just a comment about how quickly this board turned on Osweiler for something he didn’t even say.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            Fans are an emotional, irrational group. It comes down to differences in expectations and reality. Brock was ‘suppose’ to stay and be our affordable golden boy. Now he’s a he’s guilty of Hoebaggery!

          • drewthorn

            I know it falls short of the i’ntelligent’ standard that is so important around here, but I have plenty of important real life shit to apply logic and reason and any intellect I have to on a daily basis. NFL football is a nice place to unlimber one’s heart, be impulsive and apply crazy, romantic and idealistic ideas like gratitude, loyalty, and any other silly virtue isn’t necessarily rooted in money. I love the Denver Broncos and I view anybody who spurns them the same way I might view some shrew who is breaking my brother’s heart.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            In the end…professional football is art/entertainment is it not?

          • drewthorn

            Yep. And while I have no real animosity toward Marshall– I mean, I get it– I also see a Broncos organization that is truly snug against the cap, that has a long history of taking care of guys (It’s not as if they’re sitting on all this space and saying “Tough titty, Brandon, we’re tagging you because we can…”), and, by the way, who honored you by essentially picking you over a truly fantastic fellow football player.

            It’s not totally crazy, voodoo, whack job logic to see it that way.

          • Jeremy

            I disagree. DT and Clady are really the only home grown guys I saw the Broncos “take care off.”

            Everyone else either resigned a very team friendly deal, or was let walk. Because of this, we’ve been successful, but you can’t tell guys like Marshall that we typically have taken care of players so just bide your time.

          • GrizzlyB

            Ironically, those are by far the two shittiest contracts on our roster.

          • Jeremy

            Colquitt is probably 3rd in line, both in terms of being taken care of and shittiest contracts. Really need that not to be the case with Von.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            Agreed. That shrew is also guilty of hoebaggery!

          • A lot of it likely falls into typical fandom. If you are a Bronco, we love you, but if you go elsewhere, you become the enemy.

            With that said, I don’t begrudge Osweiler for making a business decision, because in the end, that’s what it was, and it still could have happened regardless of how things transpired for him in 2015.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I’ll always believe that if Osweiler had been allowed to finish out the season he would have been far more likely to stay for a little less than what Houston offered. But we will never know.

          • T. Jensen

            A lot of that would depend on how he performed. Had we lost in week 17 and lost in week 1, I think he would have been a ton cheaper and maybe even not pursued.

            Had he led us to the super bowl I think he would have signed for $15-$18 million.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            You think if he played one more game than he did, and lost, that Denver wouldn’t have even offered a contract? That seems unlikely considering they offered $16+ as it is.

          • T. Jensen

            I think they were already falling out of love with him when they benched him. Had they allowed him to tank the season, I believe it could have been a possibility.

            As it stands, I’m not sure they wanted him back anyway, they sure didn’t appear to exert much effort into the negotiations. I personally think some of the numbers they offered were just to make fans/press happy. “See we offered him this amount but he was selfish and wanted more” More of a PR game instead of just owning up to it and saying we don’t think he has what it takes and don’t want to pay him.

            But those are just my thoughts I could be way off.

        • drewthorn

          I think I did, kind of. But it was really late in the afternoon, and deep in the thread, so it slid into the netherworld of obscurity.

    • ohiobronco

      You are not “holding out” if you have not signed your tender. This is standard and nothing to be worried about.

      • This. Until Marshall signs his tender, he’s not obligated to show up for anything. I would not blame him for not showing up for offseason activities that aren’t mandatory, but I believe he’ll report to training camp because it’s really to his advantage to play well throughout the season and raise his value. A strong season of 16 games could put him in position to demand more money than Danny Trevathan got, and I think Marshall knows that.

        In other words, people should stop blowing things out of proportion.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      Wonder if this is a consequence of the Elway strategy…

      Back in the Shanny era, he was often lauded for “taking care of guys”, like a Terrell Davis or a Clinton Portis and not letting them get to the last year of their contracts… At the time, this was seen as the right way to do things…

      Elway, not saying it’s right or wrong, seems to take the more liberal approach of riding these guys out, squeezing as many drops of blood out of them as he can and then cutting bait if need be.

      This works to some extent, but then you will probably also get situations like this. You can overcome them if your depth program is on point… If not…

  • Sparks

    If Hoyer is our opening day starter, and baring any injuries, I’ve little doubt he’ll outplay Os and the Broncos will have a superior record. I’m not as down on Hoyer as some have been. He had a horrible playoff game – no disputing that – but he had an overall decent year (better than Os statistically). Hoyer would not be the first QB to throw up a clunker in post season play.

    • Jeremy

      In 2013 and 2014, Hoyer went 10-6 in Cleveland. Everyone else in Cleveland in that span went 1-15.

      Hoyer is my new flavor of the week pick to be our QB

      • Sparks

        Great stat. Who was the last Cleveland starter to have a winning record – Kosar?

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          Derek Anderson in 2007. They even made the playoffs!

          http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeDe00.htm

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Why don’t we sign him? He’s even cheaper! 😉

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Get his agent on the phone! Let’s bring in about 10 journeymen and solve this conundrum Royal Rumble style. Maybe even a steel cage match.

          • ohiobronco

            Probably best to contact the Panthers first as he is under contract.

          • Sparks

            Pay-per-view! Better than anything on the NFL channel right now anyways. If we go this route, though, then my money is on Lorenzen.

            http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2016/03/12/jared-lorenzen-the-qb-known-as-hefty-lefty-tells-broncos-hes-the-free-agent-theyre-looking-for/

          • Rhett Rothberg

            They could do it like the old NFL QB challenge that used to be on TV. The distance throw, the chalked up football with the moving targets…

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            If they can get it past Lawrence Taylor out there in a middle zone. Look at the size of that thing! Shouldn’t he be rushing the passer?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Zone blitz

          • Sparks

            Well, who do you think we should go after Rhett? You really haven’t weighed in on the QB discussion yet. 🙂

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Lolz.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Well, if we’re back in FA land…given Tolzien got signed…we can go for #Lindley2016….it’s real until it isn’t

          • Jeremy

            If we can’t get Kap, who would you want instead?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            At that point, I don’t know… Hoyer’s fine… I’d be sort of ¯_(ツ)_/¯

            I do think though, at that point, unless you can get Wentz, which won’t happen. I’d say hold off on picking a QB. Just wait till next year. Probably have a better pick and maybe some better options than the ones in this super shallow QB draft.

          • Jeremy

            They did not make the playoffs Haven’t made it since 2002. Adnerson went 10-5 that year but his career record in Cleveland was 16-18. Delhomme went 2-2, but last QB with a career winning record in Cleveland (before Hoyer) was Testaverde who played for them before the move to Baltimore

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Whoops. You’re right. I remember they played the Steelers in the playoffs last time they made it, but I would not have remembered that Kelly Holcombe started the game. 10-6 in 2007 with no playoffs. Poor Browns.

          • Nick

            And they shouldn’t have made the playoffs in 2002. It should have been the Broncos (or Patriots or Dolphins). I’m still bitter about how that year ended.

          • Jeremy

            Just that it was a 4 way tie? Or did something else strange happen that I can’t remember?

          • Nick

            Yeah, just that. I think all three of those teams were better than the Browns that year.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I think we needed a win and a Cleveland loss to get in. I was at the game in week 17 against the Cards and we spanked them, but Cleveland won, eliminating Denver. Portis had a huge game, and so did Steve Beuerlein (Brian Griese was hurt, I think?). I don’t remember anything beyond that, though.

          • Jeremy

            I saw that Beuerlien started that game over Griese. Anyone know if Griese was benched or injured?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Looks like a little bit of both. Hurt his knee against the Raiders a week earlier but played poorly (2 picks) prior to the injury. Then Shanahan told him he would sit the following week, healthy or not. That was the end of the road for Griese in Denver.

            http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2002-12-26/sports/0212260234_1_bears-if-brad-johnson-broncos-coach-mike-shanahan-rob-johnson

          • RSH, Esq.

            That was also Jake Plummer’s last game as an Arizona Cardinal, as he signed with Denver that offseason.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Hey! We agree on something.

  • Nick

    One old friend reunites with some other old friends.

    https://twitter.com/BradBiggs/status/715247100020195328

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      He graded remarkably well for the Lions last year.

      • Jeremy

        and he did for us in 2013.

  • Nick

    Jason La Canfora wrote a glowing article approving on how Elway’s handling the QB situation.

    http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/writer/jason-la-canfora/25536095/heres-why-john-elway-is-right-not-to-panic-over-broncos-qb-situation

    • One thing to keep in mind is LaCanfora was critical of the Broncos’ QB situation, so he’s realizing that Elway did know a few things about properly building a team. And while there’s no guarantee the Broncos will repeat as Super Bowl champions, all Elway is looking for is another playoff trip and letting the rest of the chips fall where they may.

    • Sparks

      Great read. Thanks for the link.

    • ohiobronco

      This articulates some of my hopes that Elway is in a position to play a different game than most other teams.

  • Carsonic
    • Nick

      Of course, Shannon Sharpe had to have the most revealing costume to show off his awesome body.

    • RSH, Esq.

      Wow. I cannot believe that photo is more than 20-years-old now.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Who is Batman, second from the left?

      It’s Mike Pritchard, ???????, Elway, Shannon Sharpe, Anthony Miller…. Must be about ’94 or ’95.

    • John

      That was a photo probably hyping our awesome offense in 94, and it was awesome (especially how they played against SD early in Week 1). Sadly, though, the Broncos had the worst defensive coordinator in team history in Charlie Waters.

    • Sometime I will have to take photos of some old football cards I have and share them in a post here. There’s an Elway one that might cause some of you to do a double take.

  • RSH, Esq.

    The Bengals are desperate for wide receivers, so this move makes sense. I could see Bubba Caldwell ending up back with Cincinnati as well.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/715265754107670528

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      LaFell was SO bad this year. Poor bungles.

      • RSH, Esq.

        Yes. Hence, why I used the word desperate above.

        • InSiemianWeTrust

          Cant help but laugh. Currently living in the northeast and watched basically every pats game this year (scoping out the enemy). LaFell cant catch a ball or run a route to save his life.

    • Nick

      Never mind, forgot that LaFell was cut. Initially I thought the Pats did some team option hocus pocus on him like they did on several players last year.

    • And yet I’m expecting this one to work out well enough for them, considering that the WRs who played alongside A.J. Green and Tyler Eifert weren’t really that good to begin with.

  • Dirty_Sancheese

    speaking of wide receivers, anyone been following Moritz Boehringer? His highlight real is unreal (although against Germans)
    http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000648990/article/german-wide-receiver-one-of-nfl-drafts-biggest-sleepers

  • RSH, Esq.

    If Mark Sanchez is going to be a competent starting quarterback for the Broncos, he absolutely has to eliminate these type of turnovers in the red zone.

    https://twitter.com/NFL/status/715282480736051200

    • babsonjr

      Pretty clear there he’s lost his confidence, doubts his reads. If our QB gurus can fix that…he still has a chance to be a capable starter in this league.

    • cjfarls

      Late throw. Guys was open if he hit him on time, but he didn’t. It happens to the best of them, and Sherman is good. Compare it to Brady in the ’05 championship game vs. Champ…

      • RSH, Esq.

        I want Sanchez to succeed, and I think he will fare better than most think he will in Denver. The play above, however, is not an isolated incident. Sanchez has been plagued by devastating turnovers throughout his career.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          Both INTs and fumbles, even when not running into a giant ass. It’s been a real problem. I’m curious to see if he can be taught to avoid them.

        • ohiobronco

          There are reasons he was available for a bag of used footballs. Same with any of the other options available at this point.

        • cjfarls

          Sure. It was a bad, late throw. And a good break by Sherman.

          His bad int stats speak for themselves, but this was a fairly poor example I think.

  • RSH, Esq.

    Interesting. “I didn’t have one person call me and ask me my opinion on Robert,” [Mike] Shanahan said on ESPN 980. “I thought I’d get a number of them, but I did talk to (LA Rams Head Coach) Jeff Fisher. I called him. We were talking about something else, and I had heard [about] the Jets, and I heard about the Broncos… and I said, ‘Hey. I know there’s a lot of things out there that come across negative, especially with my name on it, and I’d just like to tell you how I feel about them. I think if he goes back and we do some of the things that we did as a rookie, not that he hasn’t grown in different areas, he’s got a chance to be successful.’”

    https://twitter.com/ESPNRadio980/status/715256640963014656

    • Nick

      That’s a very media-friendly statement. We’ll likely never know the full truth of the consultations he gave to other coaches.

      • GrizzlyB

        I mean, technically, he said that he didn’t get any calls… doesn’t he still live in Denver?

      • Laces Out

        Shanahan is a Pro’s Pro he would never trash a guy.

        I think Griffin simply was derailed by injury he could have been fine

  • Laces Out