• T. Jensen

    Going into the college world. Texas had a great signing yesterday. Really has me excited for the next couple of years (especially with Mayfield gone from OU).

    How did your schools do? Any player in particular you are excited about?

    • pubkeeper

      Notre Dame turned a nice cb at the last minute. They got a couple decent o linemen too, they’re gonna have some big shoes to fill.

    • QDoc

      Pretty happy about my Utes. Recruiting class ranked 5th in the Pac 12 and 34th nationally… best numbers ever for Utah.

      Jack Tuttle was ranked as the 4th best QB in the class, so that feels like a coup. We also got a four-star WR named Solomon Enis out of Arizona. A couple of other really solid players too. Has me excited for the future!

      • T. Jensen

        That’s good info. I’ll have to use those two as jabs for my BYU friends. Poor guys have had a rough couple of years (I love it)

        • QDoc

          There’s also Mike Tafua, who isn’t a terribly highly rated DL, but just got back from his mission and flipped from the Y. They might be sore about that.

          Seeing BYU struggle never gets old for me. I lived through some of the LaVell Edwards years and the smug arrogance of Zoobie Zombies.

          Plus, it’s totally the Cougs fault that the horrific BCS was created. I can come up with more reasons to hate on them, but you probably have some good ammo of your own.

  • Drewredux

    http://draftwire.usatoday.com/2018/02/07/2018-nfl-mock-draft-full-7-round-projections/3/

    Not bad, IMO. The Broncos take, that is. Way fast on the Griffen kid, but not horrible.

    If I was the Browns, I’d sell my soul to K. Cousins and draft Barkley and Fitzpatrick. It seems such an obvious golden opportunity that I can’t make a lot of sense out of any alternative.

    • Sparks

      Thanks for posting. Agree on Griffen. I noticed this mock doesn’t have comp picks so it skips the Broncos second 3rd round selection at 100.
      Agree with your take on the Browns as well. The Browns are gonna Brown though, so I see them messing this all up horribly. Like doing something like taking Orlando Brown at #4 to get in line to replace an aging Joe Thomas while leaving Barkley and Fitzpatrick on the board.

      • Drewredux

        I’ve noticed that some of the ‘niks from the traditional media are reluctant to ‘anticipate’ comp picks.

        • Sparks

          Those ‘niks don’t have their resident comp pick stud like we do in Nick.

          • Drewredux

            Plus, who knows that Rog won’t award them all to NE for their recent adversity? 😉

    • Carsonic
    • Royalwithcheese

      Way too much defense in this draft. Two edge players, a CB and a safety. Where are all the playmakers?

    • they could open their coffers to him but I really think Cousins ultimately will look at Browns, see they are 2-3 years away and hard pass on that. I feel like it’s between Jets and Broncos imho.

      • Drewredux

        The Browns appear to be better situated than the Broncos, but I fully recognize that my view is a non-starter on this board and within Broncos Country in general.

        • FarAwayBroncoFan

          Wait a minute. Have you been hanging out with Uncle Rico???

          • Drewredux

            No. But short of a magical offseason, where they mine 3 or 4 Darian Stewarts out of the bargain bin, this team has a variety of issues that probably cannot be suitably addressed in one year.

            Could they bring the band all back and milk a playoff appearance out of it? Maybe. But without sigficant improvement from 90% of the young guys, they have virtually nobody waiting in the wings as our blue chippers age and fall off.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            You may be right. But, like most offseasons, I have a much more rosy outlook…assuming they get a QB and some (real) olinemen.

            You’ve sounded much more doom and gloom than usual, reminds me of the awesome Bill Paxon character in Aliens.

          • Drewredux

            I’ve noticed that myself. My negativity. I usually border on delusional when it comes to my sports teams, especially the Broncos. I don’t what is up with that.

            I’m just not seeing a rosy picture. No matter how hard I try.

          • pubkeeper

            It’s the extreme that’s the issue. The picture is not rosy, they have obvious issues. But it’s not as bad as you’re seeing it. It’s somewhere between those and could maybe even quickly go either direction, either turning the corner or arriving at where you are.

        • Royalwithcheese

          I think the Browns’ offense is undeniably in better shape. Solid line, young playmakers at WR and TE (if Njoku develops). Broncos still have a better defense (for now).

          • Drewredux

            Yes, but they have the edge defenders in place. A respectable middle. They have the banger Joker in Peppers. They just need the playmakers and a purpose, and they’ll be fine.

          • RSH

            In other words, they just need to stop being the Cleveland Browns, and things will work out.

          • Drewredux

            The just need a catalyst. Belief. I anticipate a dramatic rise, but it seems foolish to me to bank that on any of these rookie QBs. That could keep the boot on their neck for three more years.

            Hell, they can afford to use Cousins as a bridge. I’d be all over it.

          • Sparks

            Color me skeptical on the Browns doing anything unBrown like until I see proof otherwise. In the last 6 years, the Browns have selected once in the 1st round 2 times, twice in the 1st round 3 times and last year they selected 3 picks in the 1st stanza. Those 11 1st round picks were #3 & #22 (2012), #6 (2013), #8 and #22 (2014), #12 & #19 (2015), #15 (2016) and #1, #25 & #29 (2017). 4 of those 11 were top ten picks. This is a team with that kind of draft capital that has gone 1-31 the last 2 years and doesn’t seem to have that core nucleus to build around. How do you have all those 1st round picks and not have that core in place? By comparison, the Broncos have only picked twice in the first rounds 2 times in their entire history, both of those courtesy of the Cutler trade. We’ve only picked 5 1st rounders in the last 6 years. The highest pick was #20 (2017) year during that time.

            The Browns are a team that has been sitting on cap space for years and never pulls the trigger. They have now finally gotten to the point they have to spend money to get within the CBA rules.*

            I say this as a guy who would love to see a Browns resurgence. Maybe it’s because of our track record against them, but I wouldn’t mind seeing the Browns own their division for the next 5+ years. Let the Steelers and Ravens be cellar dwellers for a while. I would actively cheer for that.

            * Someone much more cap savvy than I (Nick maybe) could correct me here about the Browns having to spend money to hit the CBA floor for cap spending.

  • Nick
  • Sparks
    • Jeremy

      No different to me than Broncos players/fans whining after Gase called an onside kick up big in the fourth quarter.

      It’s the NFL. If you don’t like it, perform better.

      • Drewredux

        Plus, over coming that type of deficite on the biggest stage is a scenario any organization would want to commemorate one way or another.

        I mean, its a pretty big accomplishment. Sorry you plyed dupe in this one, Falcons.

    • Yahmule

      Is that what that number commemorates? I thought it was the number of times the Patriots had gotten away with cheating.

      • bradley

        Funny, but 283 is a little low for that.

        • Sparks

          I thought he meant just for the 2017*2018 season. 🙂

      • Someone mentioned that Blank would lobby Lurie to have 505 diamonds on the Eagles rings. (Brady finished with 505 yds. passing in the SB52 loss).

        • Sparks

          1st QB in the history of the NFL to finish with 500+ yds, 3 TD’s , 0 INT’s and still lose. lol

          • Nick

            Reminds me of Tony Romo’s statline in this wonderful game.

            https://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/201310060dal.htm

          • RSH

            Ah, the days when the Broncos could get down by multiple scores and easily come back to win.

          • Sparks

            Well, all except for that pesky SB 48.

          • RSH

            You stop that this instant!

          • Sparks

            You’re right…I’ll go say my Hail Mary’s and ask for forgiveness.

          • Nick

            That’s yet another point toward establishing that the offense gets the lion’s share of the blame in that game. The defense gave up far more points in the Cowboys game…and yet the Broncos still won.

          • bradley

            When the Cheaters got a lead (3rd quarter?) I really didn’t think Foles would be able to keep up in a shootout.

  • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

    35 days until Free Agency
    78 days until the Draft
    I don’t think I can make it, Men. Slowly fading….

    • Sparks

      Quick, take two of the below stat

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukmu4DPgtOo

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        Results are still the same, right? I can’t take a practical joke at this point.

        • Sparks

          Actually, it’s a little sweeter after suffering through this last season.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            Ha! Truer words, my friend. Truer words…

    • Steven Searls
    • Royalwithcheese

      Take heart! The Combine starts in just a few weeks!

  • TiredOfWinning
    • InSiemianWeTrust

      I’d rather overpay and spend 30M on Kirk + get Q Nelson than spend 2 firsts trying to get Darnold.

      And I’m a huge Darnold fan.

      • Sparks

        No fair changing it after I upvote to include “huge Darnold” fan. 🙂 As I am not. As a matter of fact, if the draft went this way and we made a trade and the Browns picked Mayfield in our original spot and got the extra draft capital, I’d be beside myself.
        Totally agree on the first part though. What’s funny about the $30M a year is in 3-5 years, that will look like a very team-friendly contract.

        • cjfarls

          I agree with you about being livid if we did this trade up, but Darnold at #5 seems totally plausible to me (I probably prefer $30m for Kirk and Nelson though).

          • Sparks

            If Cousins, Tyrod, Rosen and Mayfield are all off the table, then I could see Darnold. I’m still struggling with if I like him or Jackson better though and Jackson could be had much later in the round if a trade down became possible.

          • cjfarls

            I have Darnold well above Jackson… Jackson is intriguing and my #4 choice, but requires a lot of projection. His skills are awesome, but potentially less likely to transfer.
            That said, I think we’re very much on the same page. If someone is offering a trade at 5 to secure Darnold… I’m not sure I turn it down. Let say AZ offers to move up by giving us their #15, this years 3rd, and next years first….
            The difficulty is, giving up the blue-chip pick this year… but the upside is that I’m guessing a rookie year with Jackson is a trial, so we likely have another high pick next year, plus the extra picks…
            Jackson unfortunately seems in that sweet spot where he doesn’t seem very plausible for us IMO. My guess is someone grabs him mid-teens (unless the top-3 somehow drop and force all QBs lower)… he’s probably far enough back that we don’t want to give up Nelson/Barkley/etc. for, but too soon such that moving up from the 2nd would be too expensive.

    • pubkeeper

      If the Broncos do get Darnold, say hello to some major growing pains. Heard an interview w him during super bowl week, he is young! You could tell even he feels like he could use another year at USC but that would only possibly hurt his draft stock and risk injury. He is nowhere near ready to play NFL football this year.

      • RSH

        And get ready for turnovers galore, especially if he starts Year 1.

      • Nick

        This is yet another reason why I advocate getting both a veteran and a rookie.

        • pubkeeper

          I think they should do that no matter what. Who they go after in the draft depends a lot on who they sign in fa. If they land cousins, I think they go mid to late round qb. Otherwise I think they go high for one.

          • Sparks

            If they land Cousins, I’m calling for Mike White late.

          • pubkeeper

            I thought that Lauletta kid looked decent too. I think there is a little depth at that position.

      • Drewredux

        You watch a lot of his tape and the dude matches Allen on all the 50/50 prayers he hangs up.

        I also see much less of the field vision advertised. When Mayfield buys time, you start thinking homerun play. Darnold often buys time to still throw into heavy traffic.

      • cjfarls

        Agree he’s the least “pro-ready” of the TOP-3 QBs… that said, I think he has natural short-middle range accuracy. He’s behind Rosen/Mayfield for me, but there is a lot to like in his game. At #5 I have no issues taking him if he’s what’s left and we didn’t get Cousins.

  • Gosh my Lakers were busy today. And the Cavs too. Trade deadline day!

    Anyway… back to the NFL. {crickets}

    • RSH

      As currently constituted, the NBA is just the worst. Your Lakers are now in position to become one of the four good teams in the NBA. IMHO, the competitive balance in the league has never been lower. Then again, I just do not have the time or bandwidth to ardently follow the NBA like I used to.

      • Nick

        I’m not an NBA expert but it seems like competitive balance has always been a problem. The Celtics dynasty of the 1960s, the Lakers/Celtics wars of the 1980s, the Bulls dynasty of the 1990s, and so on. It also seems to be an unsolvable problem, as the teams with a top 5 player are already going to have a base line for domination.

        Anyway, yes, leagues with the same 3-4 teams winning everything year after year is not fun.

        • Sparks

          I think it’s a product of the game itself. At any one time, there are only 5 players on the floor and those same 5 cover all phases of offense & defense. So, 1 superstar has the ability to greatly swing the scales in their favor as opposed to football that has 22 starters for offense and defense and has greater flexibility to overcome that 1 superstar on the other team. Want to neutralize Brady, Rodgers etc., effectively use a ball-control offense, thus removing them from the equation. Not so easy to do the same with LeBron.

          • T. Jensen

            To compound that – add in free agency where Lebron can bring in the best available players to make the team have 3-4 superstars or just get his coach fired etc.

            I had started losing interest before but Lebron moving to Miami killed the NBA for me. I’ll still watch some playoff games but I really just don’t care much anymore.

            And as much as I like Durant (he was a Longhorn and I got to watch him a few times while here in Austin) I hate the fact that he went to the Warriors (happy he got his ring though).

        • Jeremy

          The upper limit they put on contracts make it worse, but I can understand the benefits they have for players

        • Yahmule

          I agree with you for the most part. The NBA has almost always been ruled by dynasties, except during the 70’s. In the nine years from 1971 to 1979, there were eight different champions. And the league was never less popular. Most younger people probably can’t imagine this, but the NBA playoffs used to televised on tape delay @ around 11:30 PM in most markets and you mainly got the team in your local market only. When Magic and Bird came into the league together, and their teams began to dominate, the popularity of the league skyrocketed.

          People always say they want parity and they hate it when they get it. Pete Rozelle’s fantasy was to have all 28 teams finish between 6-8 and 10-4.

          • Jeremy

            Parity has worked very well for the NFL in my opinion, but I don’t doubt you that it didn’t work well in the NBA in the 70s

          • Yahmule

            I think it’s a much different kind of parity than Rozelle envisioned, though. I think it’s more about teams being able to get better more quickly now and the reason for that is free agency. Definitely not the way the owners wanted to level the landscape. And its leveling effect is more in that it keeps great teams from hording talent at various positions than as a redistribution of talent throughout the league.

        • John

          In the case of the 60’s Celtics and 90’s Bulls, an injury (and eventual death) and a cocaine overdose saved their dynasties.

          If Cincinnati Royal PF Maurice Stokes doesn’t have his head injury in 1958 (that wasn’t treated properly), the Royals probably steal some titles from Boston in the 60’s with him, Oscar Robertson, Jack Twyman, and C Wayne Embry.

          If Bias doesn’t die in 1986, the Celtics win the 1987 title, and they give the Bulls problems in the early-90’s (I see them winning it in 91 as well. They were 29-3 in December that year in reality until Bird’s back went out).

          Also, if Sabonis comes over to Portland healthy around 1990, that’s more trouble for Michael Ball Hog and the Ship of Fools.

          • Yahmule

            Good stuff, John. Maurice Stokes was going to be an all time great and so few remember him.

          • John

            Thanks.
            Also, if it wasn’t for a bomb and some morons, the 80’s Laker dynasty doesn’t happen.

            When Kareem was traded to the Lakers in 1975, Washington and New York were first on his list of destinations. However, someone blew up his house in Washington, crossing them off the list. Then, after New York didn’t put forth a good offer (they thought that money would be enough to seal it), the Lakers were able to steal Kareem with a good package.

            If it wasn’t for a bomb, Washington probably could have had Kareem with Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld, a backup, and their 1976 and 77 first-round picks (in the wild wild west days of player movement, they were able to replace those picks, anyway).

            In 1976, the Jazz did something stupid. They wanted Gail Goodrich from the Lakers. However, to get him, they had to rescind their rights to Moses Malone and give LA three #1 picks. Guess who one of those picks turned out to be? Magic Johnson.

            Then, four years later, Ted Stupidien traded Cleveland’s 1982 #1 pick to the Lakers for Don Ford (I think that there were others involved as well). I listened to a podcast on You Tube about Stepien, and the people on there were talking about the possibility that Ted wanted to put together an all-white team (don’t know if he did, though). That 1982 pick turned out to be none other than James Worthy.

          • Yahmule

            The NBA had to actually step in and take control of Cleveland for a while because of the way they were throwing draft picks around the league willy nilly. I think the Stepien Rule prevented teams from trading first round picks in consecutive seasons. Don Ford was one of the league leaders in blonde hair, but that didn’t seem like enough return for Big Game James Worthy.

      • I mean not that long ago the Warriors were a cheap laughingstock who sucked. And now they are top of the world, but instead of being an underdog type team they are pricey too, and also hoarding the best players as well. So I don’t know what that means really, other than it’s possible for other teams to follow that model but it will still seem like it’ll be 4-5 teams that have all the money and talent.

      • Drewredux

        I used to be pretty passionaite about the Nuggets. When I was a kid, they and the Broncos were all we really had (at least until the rise of the McCartney Buffs). The competitive issues ultimately wore me down. In particular, the series against Utah after Denver’s huge upset of Seattle was an officiating abomination. There is just no way it wasn’t calculated or intentional. Nor was it particularly remarkable for the times.

        I never spent another dime or second on the league after that.

    • Jeremy

      I’ve never heard of any of the players involved (although I haven’t followed the NBA closely since the nuggets moved on from George Karl and Uriji at the same time).

      What’s the gist of the moves.

      • the gist as I understand it is Lakers traded two pretty good young players but whom will be pricey next year for them, as a team trying to clear space to afford someone like Paul George or even LeBron James possibly, while keeping rest of their younger (cheaper) core intact. They also get Cavs first round pick (late 1st most likely). Cavs get two good young players (not all stars) who could make James more interested in staying? (Not entirely clear what else is in it for them.) Lakers get a rental of once great young player Isaiah Thomas who has been kinda banged up this year and not quite as good

    • Tyler

      As someone who kind of roots for the Lakers I was sad to see Larry Nance go.

  • Nick
    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      Nice. I’m sure Cousins is just chomping at the bit to give the Broncos a discount.

    • Jeremy

      I think it’s likely cousins beats it.

      Brady is making about 2/3rds that for what it’s worth

      • DCJ1

        Does that include his under-the-table money the Pats are laundering through TB12?

    • RSH

      I wonder what the guarantees are? $27.5 APY.

      • Jeremy

        Garapalo seems like the type to bet on himself and give up some guarantees to get a higher APY. Time will tell though

      • Jeremy

        For what it’s worth, 2 straight years of franchise tags would have averaged out to about 26 million APY.

        He beat that bench mark by a lot

    • Nick
      • Jeremy

        What previous contract is he referencing?

        • Nick

          Kaepernick, I’m guessing.

          • T. Jensen

            How’d that work out for them?

          • The Color Orange

            Actually it worked out well. Kaepernick signed a ridiculously team-friendly deal.

          • Alaskan

            Does anybody think Kaep could still play ??
            He would certainly be more in our pay range.

    • GEE THANKS A LOT NINERS.

      Sigh.

    • Nick
      • Jeremy

        Damn. Three year cash flow from being tagged three times is approximately 85 million I believe

      • ohiobronco

        This is kind of the number I have had in my head for what it will take to get a deal done with Cousins. It would require some degree of leveraging into years 4+ to keep the early year cap numbers in the 20s.

      • https://twitter.com/MaioccoNBCS/status/961672855359336448

        The guaranteed money reported is interesting, because Malocco didn’t report it as fully guaranteed. If it is, that’s more than what Matthew Stafford got ($60.5M). But if that number is total guarantees, that would be less than Stafford’s total guarantees ($92M).

        Something to keep in mind when it comes to any other quarterback seeking a new contract.

    • Alaskan

      Because Garrapolo is a proven quantity, unlike Brady or Cousins ??

  • Drewredux

    As it becomes more and more clear that Cousins will keep the Broncos to signing M. Watson level UFA into the forseeable future and leaning heavily on Dove Valley’s struggling College Player Personnel deparment, I ask again: How is Kurk Cousins rational for the 2018 Denver Broncos?

    I recognize that all they have to do is shed most of the guys that can actually play, but the metaphorical calculus still doesn’t work.

    • Tyler

      You get a guaranteed above average QB. Sounds fun after the last three years.

      • Drewredux

        Cousins probably elevates Denver to Washington’s level the next 3 years.

        I can wait. Statistics tell me I have 30 more years. I’d rather draft Top 10 the next three years than Top 20 and hopefully get a transcendent QB in one of those drafts.

        • Sparks

          This sounds a lot like the Browns method of football operations. I think the FO would have a hard time selling this business plan to the locker room or prospective FA’s. “Hey Von, instead of going after the proven NFL level QB, we’re going to throw darts at the draft in hopes of finding the next PMFM. Cool with that?”

          • DragonPie

            To be fair, I really like the Brown’s method in theory. But it is a tough sell for prospective free agents.

          • Sparks

            Not only for prospective FA’s but for your own locker room. Von has publicly angled for Cousins as have other teammates. I’m not saying Cousins is the be all, end all answer but you risk losing your own locker room if your plan is purely hoping on the draft. If Cousins has some ridiculous contract demands that are just not feasible, at least you could look your players in the eye and say “we tried”. I know there’s a fine line between running your team and letting the players run the team, but to a certain degree you need to try and make moves that the players can support, even if they don’t see the big picture.

          • Yahmule

            Especially after you’ve sent your guys into battle with plastic swords the last two seasons.

          • DragonPie

            I have my doubts about breaking the bank for Cousins, too. But, I could see bringing in a bridge guy who can hopefully play at an above replacement level and also draft a guy. That could keep the locker room and it makes more sense for a team like ours with some proven, veteran talent.

            I just think that the Browns idea is solid. Maybe doesn’t make as much sense with a team with a lot of resources invested in quality veterans at this moment.

          • Sparks

            Agree on the bridge guy as a possible solution. Messaged that about Tyrod in my response to Drew.
            The Browns idea is solid if you have a fan base and a team that going 1-31 over 2 years is more expected than not. I just don’t think that’d fly for the Broncos.

          • DragonPie

            Oh, I agree with that.

            Actually, if you really intended to trade back and maximize your future potential the way the Browns have, you could sign the big name QB, hope that you have some good seasons with him and then later when you start losing those veterans, you get a windfall of rookies to replace them.

          • Drewredux

            It probably wont fly for the Broncos, but Elway as much cleaned up Shanny’s disaster as McD’s, and Shanny’s disaster was bourn out of consistently overestimating his hand.

            I’ll take a cycle of boom and bust over relentless mediocrity any day of the week.

            Look at Ozzie Newsome. He was the NFL’s resident genius until he tied his hands to an average QB. Now they are shaking him off like an unsightly booger: Baltimore fans, the media, and the organization alike.

          • Drewredux

            That is very true. I admit, I haven’t thought much about the guys in place or the phychology of these moves.

            Like I’ve said before, I hope the Broncos are being honest with themselves.

          • Sparks

            I agree with you there. If Cousins has some crazy contract number he’s wanting to get, then maybe going the Tyrod route would be a better option. You can still show your team you’re trying to win now and then also get a high rookie in the mix and save some cap space in the deal.

            To be clear, I think Cousins is a much better QB prospect for the Broncos than Tyrod, but at what price? Where is that break even line? That’s what I don’t know.

          • Drewredux

            It bothers me in the gut that Washington would just walk away. That by all accounts, repeatedly stung by rookie QB’s Clevland is disinterested.

            Makes me wonder if Denver is behaving desperately.

          • Yahmule

            Two franchises that constantly make poor decisions. Especially when it comes to evaluating QB talent.

          • Drewredux

            Dorsey doesn”t seem stupid to me, though. He seemed to leave KC better off.

            That same gut of mine was cynical about D. Stewart for the same reasons. That was much lower impact stuff, but my gut is pretty stupid sometimes.

          • Yahmule

            Not choosing to pick a 30 year old quarterback to head a giant rebuild doesn’t necessarily mean they think he’s not good. They might just prefer the idea of drafting a young guy. The unusual intersection of good fortune that brings them two top four picks in a draft with at least four good quarterbacks, might make that seem like a no brainer to them.

          • Does Washington’s recent history of free agent signings, decisions and drafting give you confidence that they made the right decision? It does not me, which is another thing in Cousins’ favor. 😉 (That and that he’s good.)

          • Sparks
          • Sparks

            I should add that the article linked was from 2010. He’s done a bunch of stupid shit in the mean time as well.

          • Royalwithcheese

            Ultimately it comes down to something like this:

            Cousins + Q. Nelson + Sony – Talib

            OR

            Taylor + QB drafted + Hernandez + Talib

          • Sparks

            I would say this is pretty spot on. I do worry that Hernandez is going to work his way into the first and not be available at 40. If so, though, maybe one of the top OT’s will be.

          • BlackKnigh

            With the lack of good OL guys in the NFL – as we saw from some of ours – he will most likely go in the 20’s or 30’s.

          • gnasses

            What about
            Taylor + Nelson + trade up for Jackson + Talib?

          • Royalwithcheese

            I would LOVE that scenario, but I just don’t see LJ being Elway’s guy. Taylor + Barkley + Jackson + Talib would be great as well. Use that cap space saved by not signing Cousins to sign a FA OG, grab a RT in the second or third.

          • Jason

            IF they are number t honest with themselves after this past season, there is little hope they’ll ever be.

            No offense, but looking for thre years of top ten drafting to make you better down the road is the candy assed way to approach it. In today’s NFL there is no “long term” approach without constantly being aggressive in draft AnD free agency.

      • Laces Out

        Lolololol

    • Laces Out

      Dont get me started…signing Cousins is the very last thing I would like to occur

    • Royalwithcheese

      All the guys who can play being CJ and Talib? Cause that’s all it would take (assuming Watson is cut as well).

    • cjfarls

      All the whining about lack of Denver’s cap-flexibility if we sign Cousins seems highly misplaced.
      The reason we wouldn’t be able to sign other FAs is because we think we already have elite talent in Von, CHJ, Wolfe, DT and Sanders to pair with Cousins. Its because we think presumably that the folks we have are worth more than the folks we could get in FA…. that is NOT a bad thing.

      A highly paid QB performing at a top-10 level (not unrealistic for Cousins IMO) has never sunk a team. Arguably if there is any position on the team that we should overpay for, QB would be it.

      Does that mean we need to find good talent in the draft if we want to maintain an elite DEF and complimentary offensive players – sure. I don’t think anyone would argue that.

      But if you think we suck at scouting draft picks, why would you want us repeatedly sinking 1st round draft picks into arguably the most difficult position to scout? Big opportunity cost there….

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        Word is born.

      • Drewredux

        We’ll see how it works out.

      • Jeremy

        As you mention, I think the issue is the lack of success in the draft. We have only “hit” on 1-2 draft picks/year since 2012. That isn’t sustainable with the way the league is currently set up. What I disagree with is your argument that because of this lack of success, we shouldn’t draft a QB.

        Whether we sign Cousins, and look to fill holes in the draft, or draft a QB and look to sign a FA or two here and there, our success moving forward will be deeply tied to our ability to draft well.

        • cjfarls

          I have absolutely no problem drafting a QB, and never said we shouldn’t. I also have no problem getting a FA QB and using the #5 on a blue-chipper. The former gives more hope long-term, while the latter is probably “safer” for near term success.

          So if I’m Elway, my first play is to make a strong (but smart) run at Cousins/Taylor. If we can solve our QB issue in FA, that opens huge degrees of freedom for other decisions. We can then grab a blue-chipper at #5. If we aren’t sold on any of those non-QB folks (or think we can move back and still get a top player), we can trade back for future draft value. The options really become limitless, but we’re constrained as long as we have a black hole at QB.

          If we can’t get Cousins/Taylor, there are 3 very good options for QB at #5 IMO. No need to move up unless we REALLY like one over the others, but we need to be prepared to get our 3rd choice. We can also sign a lower tier vet (Bridgewater, etc.) to “raise the floor” of our QB play while we see if the new rookie can adapt/play. Under this scenario we don’t get the blue-chipper to solve the other issues on the roster but its triage… if your QB sucks, its hard to win regardless of how great the rest of the team is.

          Worst case scenario IMO is we don’t get a top FA, and 3 QBs go in the fist 4 picks (or if we don’t really like all 3 options)… do we move up for one of the top rookies? Stay put and grab a great non-QB, hoping some stop-gap vet or late-round option works or that our QB-play is so bad we get another top pick next year? Trade back to get more draft value for a trade up next year while grabbing someone like Jackson/Allen? It becomes a real tough decision, and one I would hate to be forced to make (which is why my first play is for Cousins/Taylor).

    • The Color Orange
    • Kwash

      So you don’t want the Broncos to sign Cousins or draft any of the top QBs. What would you like them to do?

      • Drewredux

        I just don’t think its the year to solve the QB issues. That’s all. Especially with some of the non-QBs in the elite pool. Last I checked, the world doesn’t end at the end of SB 53.

        To me, if Denver’s D can actually sustain like many of you anticipate, then Tyrod Taylor is the sensible play.

        • cjfarls

          Taylor makes a lot of sense to me also… but I’m guessing he becomes just as overpaid for his production as Cousins is (Cousins you pay top-5 money for top-10 performance while I bet Taylor gets top-10 money for top-15/20 performance), and probably requires modest draft-pick trade capital to secure his rights.

          The big difference IMO between Taylor/Cousins is that Taylor’s contract probably will be get-outable in 1-2 years if he sucks, while Cousins is at least a 3, if not a 4 year commitment (but he’s far less likely to suck IMO). Either way, you want/expect them to succeed… so I’m guessing the 3-year payout between the 2 is less difference than many folks imagine.

          • Drewredux

            I’m not going to flip out over Cousins, Mayfield, Rosen, Darnold, etc. I get and have sympathy for all the arguments to try to solve the issue ASAP.

            I fully anticipate one of those guys in a Broncos jersey this May. I just doubt that the QB issue remains urgent. I think they have plenty other work to do, too.

          • cjfarls

            Yep – I actually am pretty sanguine on the whole thing. I see lots of plausible options, all of which I think either improve us substantially in the near-term (Cousins/Taylor), or give bright hopes for the future (aka, a top-5 rookie QB).

            Its a pretty good year to have been bad because of lousy QB play IMO.

          • Royalwithcheese

            Yeah, and they have six picks in the top 112 right now, plus Chenderson and Butt returning. If they get this right, they can plug most of the holes. Big if.

        • Carsonic

          I’m on the Taylor train, myself. Seems like the best balance of $ and talent.
          (I like your avatar, btw. Is it new or have I not been paying attention?)

        • ohiobronco

          I don’t really get why it’s not the year to solve the QB position. The draft class could be comparable to 2004 and 2012. The list of available vets is unusually strong. Last year Glennon was the top FA.

        • gobroncos

          Every year is the year to solve the QB issue. You have to try to fix that position every year. If we don’t get a vet, and we don’t get a QB in the draft, we’ll be right back where we were last year. But we don’t know where we’ll draft. We could do slightly better than last year or other teams could suck a lot worse. Then we’d be picking mid-round instead of top 5. Good luck getting the top QB or one of the top QB’s in next years draft. Even if we wanted to move up, the shitty teams will be able to offer a better pick to move up or if they’re really shitty and need a QB they’ll just pick the QB at #1 or #2. There’s rarely a good vet option in FA.

          This year is unique in that there are 3-5 QB’s that have a decent chance of success in the NFL in the draft and there could be some good FA Vet’s as well. This IS the year to fix the QB issue. Especially after the last two years.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            Totally agree. Fix the QB, fix the oline, and we’re a lot better.

          • Alaskan

            All of you people are kidding yourselves.
            JE will just draft Allen and we will have another king sized QB ready to ride the pines while TS wins next year’s open competition. As Mark Twain said: History doesn’t repeat but it rhymes.
            Brace yourselves.

    • T. Jensen

      I’m not sold on Cousins either but I do think he is a better player than our current staff. I wouldn’t mind signing him, just not at a high price tag. We’re at pick #5 this is one of the few years we can actually choose a QB in a draft, I think we should take advantage.

  • Yahmule

    Hey, Broncos!

    1/5: G QUENTON NELSON NOTRE DAME
    2/40: RB SONY MICHEL GEORGIA
    3/71: DL RASHEEM GREEN USC
    3/100: WR EQUANIMEOUS ST. BROWN NOTRE DAME
    4/108: LB JOSEY JEWELL IOWA
    4/111: OT BRANDON PARKER NORTH CAROLINA A&T
    5/144: OT BRETT TOTH ARMY
    5/165: CB HOLTON HILL TEXAS
    6/185: DL PJ HALL SAM HOUSTON STATE
    7/225: DL BJ HILL NORTH CAROLINA STATE

    • Royalwithcheese

      I like it! Parker better be ready to step in at RT right away…

      • Yahmule

        I would have gone JaMarco Jones @ 3/71, but he came off the board a few picks sooner.

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I know you and RSH are going to be doing a lot of these things. You guys should start including who our FA QB is going to be if we don’t take a QB at #5 as a Bonus Pick!

      • Yahmule

        I’m all about Kirk or Tyrod. I like these quarterbacks in this draft, but I want the blue chip super talent @ 5.

        • Drewredux

          That’s my thing with Cleveland. They could pick two of the three (Barkley, Fitzpatrick, Nelson) and hire the best UFA QB to come down the pike in awhile. That or one of them and, apparently, Sam Darnold.

          I’d pick the former scenario 11 times out of 10. I’d be antsy to start winning now and then. ASAP.

          • cjfarls

            Yep – If CLE is smart, they take the Cousins decision out of anyone else’s hands. They can then take their top player on the board at #1 unless someone gives them a kings ransome.
            Its makes so much sense, that CLE is almost guaranteed not to do it.

          • Sparks

            Imagine having your franchise QB AND the #1 and #4 picks in what most consider a very good draft class? That’s utopia dream level shit right there.

          • cjfarls

            CLE – where you can get the best FA QB in half a decade, and 2 total blue-chip top-5 picks… and still have to spend more money to get above the salary floor and perhaps still be so bad that you’re an underdog going into the season….
            CLE – where any other team’s utopia is just the latest chapter in an ongoing nightmare.

          • Sparks

            Seriously. They are the equivalency of the guy who basically gets his pick of one of the top 5 supermodels every year to hook up with, yet elects to let some other guy have a crack at them and is content to wait until the next year.

          • Clockwork Orange

            Cleveland doesn’t have a snowball’s chance at landing Cousins. Yes, I’m aware of their cap space, but Cousins is going to get paid no matter where he goes and I’m doubting that he’s itching to be the next to end up in that QB graveyard.

            It’s so funny how everyone fawns over the Browns at this time of year because of the draft picks they have. You can practically set your watch by it. Just like you can set your watch by them being the league’s prison bitch when the games start.

          • Sparks

            I mostly agree with your premise, but Cleveland is one of the few teams that could front load their contract offer to Cousins that, unless your McDaniels, it would be just stupid to turn down that other teams just couldn’t do. That said, I do agree that Cousins to Browns is not very likely, but I believe it’s more the Browns are gonna Brown more than a money issue.

          • Clockwork Orange

            The Jets can offer basically anything the Browns can while specifically using “we’re not the Browns” in their sales pitch.

          • Sparks

            The Jest can’t also use the “plus we have the #1 and #4 picks to solidify our line and backfield” sales pitch. True, they sit at 6 but if I’m Cousins and the Browns told me that they were also going to go after Barkley and Nelson, I’d certainly have to listen especially with Thomas due to come back. To top it off, they have the 33rd pick as well they could use to bolster that offense.

          • gnasses

            I don’t know if you meant to write “Jest” but I am now going to use this forever. I have a buddy who I play FFL with and is a big JEST fan. It will drive him crazy.

          • Sparks

            I didn’t lol but I like it. J-E-S-T…JEST, JEST, JEST!

          • Sear to God, I once heard a drunk on the Staten Island Ferry at 2:00AM chanting G-E-T-S JETS JETS JETS.

          • Yahmule

            Having all that money in Cleveland would be like selling your soul to the devil for immortality and then getting thrown in prison for life.

          • Sparks

            Or, basically, McDaniels career plan.

          • Hank Mardukis

            A football Faustian bargain?

          • Yahmule

            Not even football as much as that Cleveland itself is just kind of run down and dreary.

          • Drewredux

            If I were Kirk Cousins, that is exactly the challenge I’d seek. I’d already feel comfortable with my financial situation.

            I mean, I guess I’d pick the Vikes over the Browns.

            I do recognize that I’m not KC, and that you could be right.

        • Sparks

          I’m leaning this way as well. I reserve final judgment until FA, combine and pro days have come and gone, but the more I look at it, the more I like a Cousins/Taylor and a blue chip talent @5 – namely Nelson. If nothing else changed, even leaving the wonder duo of Watson/Stephenson at RT, I think those 2 moves (Cousins/Tyrod+Nelson) would move the offense up 10ish slots in total rankings. With our defense, now they are competing for a division title in ’18. As we’ve all said before, once a team is at the dance, anything can happen.

          I say this as a huge fan of this QB class where I think it’s very probable that 2-3, if not more, will become QBOTF’s for their respective teams.

          • cjfarls

            I don’t think we can sign Cousins while keeping Watson… but really, cutting Watson/Stephens seems a net cap/ability gain no matter how you spin. The ugly truth is those 2 have played at below replacement level for the past 2 years… randomn vet minimum FA off the street probably isn’t a big step backward.

          • Sparks

            True. Good point. I meant a Watson/Stephenson level RT. Hell, cut those guys and give Kouandijio (yes, I had to look that spelling up) or Wilkinson the job going into this offseason. Wouldn’t be much of a drop off in production.

          • BlackKnigh

            That’s pretty much how I feel too! In fact – those new guys might get better in time. The old ones have topped out.

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          I guess it was a rhetorical question for you, but I just wanted to hear RSH say that the Broncos are trying to work on a trade with the Redskins for Alex Smith. 😉

      • RSH

        Alright, I’ll bite. I am still holding out hope that John Elway works his late game magic to sign Kirk Cousins. This draft makes that assumption. According to my sources, talk of the Redskins trading Alex Smith to the Broncos is dead for now, Bobby. 🙂

        5: R1P5 G QUENTON NELSON, NOTRE DAME
        40: R2P8 ILB MALIK JEFFERSON, TEXAS
        71: R3P7 OT MARTINAS RANKIN, MISSISSIPPI STATE
        100: R3P36 CB JC JACKSON, MARYLAND
        108: R4P6 WR MARCELL ATEMAN, OKLAHOMA STATE
        111: R4P9 3-4 OLB KEMOKO TURAY, RUTGERS
        144: R5P5 TE DALTON SCHULTZ, STANFORD
        165: R5P26 3-4 DE/NT LOWELL LOTULELEI, UTAH (Will find his motivation from the good cop (Domata Peko) and bad cop (Bill Kollar)
        185: R6P8 QB RILEY FERGUSON, MEMPHIS (Sorry, not sorry, Paxton)
        225: R7P7 RB KYLE HICKS, TCU

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          Yes! This is Great stuff!

        • QDoc

          Lowell’s no Star, but a good value pick at 165. Good run stuffer.

          • RSH

            I was disappointed in the drop off in his play last season. Hopefully, a great mentor in Peko and motivator and coach in Kollar will help him rebound and develop.

        • BlackKnigh

          Actually I like this mock draft better than Yahmule’s as 3 big needs are addressed in the first 3 picks: OG, ILB, and OT. Sorry Yahmule. I like the rest of the picks too. Covers a lot of areas where there needs to be some support.
          Hopefully there will be 3 or so starters at the beginning of the season – or at least rotated in regularly.

    • BlackKnigh

      Yeah – I could very much live with this one. No QB to develop?

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Von is no longer getting QB money.

  • Royalwithcheese
  • Royalwithcheese
    • Nick

      Hubbard is someone I’m not familiar with. Looks like he played over 70% of the snaps in lieu of an injured Marcus Gilbert.

      • Royalwithcheese

        There are a few names here I’m not familiar with. Him, Lauvao, Fulton.