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When I predicted that Demarcus Walker would be the draftee who’s going to disappoint, that was a typo; I obviously meant Carlos Henderson.
On a related note, there may yet be life in Khalif Raymond’s career.
So, evidently being an entertaining and enthusiastic press conference guy doesn’t necessarily make you a great Special Teams coach. We need to get our coverage act together.
The run game appears to be slightly improved, and as of 1 preseason game, Bolles does not suck!
The game left me feeling good about Siemian at this point in the assimilation of a new system, especially without a specific game plan. Sloter was fun to watch, but I’ve learned that most of what happens with the 3rd team has little bearing on real football.
Except maybe when you see DeAngelo Henderson scoot down the field like that.
It’s been widely reported C. Henderson has been having issues with drops and fumbles in OTAs and camp, guess that didn’t change when the lights came on. We really need some better offensive scouts… drafting of WRs, OL and QBs terrible under Elway’s management. Oh and let’s not let the DL coach draft any pet projects in the 2nd rd. anymore…
Was Gotsis at weakside DE? You can’t criticise the weakside DE for not getting penetration because in Wade’s defense the weakside DE is supposed to 2-gap.
Given that Wolfe was actually doing well at what Fox and JDR wanted, and fans that dont know shit about D line play figured an empty stat line means he’s terrible, I’m going to go ahead and wait to hear from someone that I’m confident actually knows what they are talking about.
I can’t tell you that, to be honest. But I can tell you I’m not critical of him for not getting penetration. My criticism is that he’s late off the snap and consistently gets driven back off the line of scrimmage. It looked to me like he waits for the o-line to engage him instead of taking the initiative. Basically, he still has no idea what he’s doing out there.
That is fair.
I know what 2-gap is (d lineman holds his ground while defending in this case the weak B and weak C gap/edge) but Im not good at evaluating line play. I need to rely on someone that I trust is, like Ted Bartlett or Doc Bear.
If a DE loses double teams (not a combo block where one blocker released to the second level) then there is an unblocked defender somewhere. (And you might as well hold a blocker since d holding calls are as rare as eclipses. Eclipsi?) If a lineman is losing one on one, that’s bad.
Did C. Henderson have drop problems in college? Maybe he’s just more nervous than your average rookie, but this has been a terrible start for him.
I’m definitely worried about special teams now. Coverage was really bad on every return. Consistently awful.
That’s what it seemed like to me. Sucks, since he was playing pretty well, and it was looking like he had a path to the roster. Bring in V.Walker, I guess?
Dammit to hell. And, yeah, I would support the return of Walker.
I thought Baby Pot Roast didn’t get too much action, but it appeared he was stout enough, if not really penetrating. Did he make an impression on anyone else?
Will rewatch. But Gotsis got double teamed and pushed 5 yards again. =)
Joseph, McCoy, and Musgrave will be getting lit up by Elway today for not doing enough to make the appointment of Lynch look justifiable. Maybe already on the flight back.
Elway is going to be grimacing like it’s 2011 as the QB he doesn’t want finds ways to improbably win close game after close game.
Hopefully it ends again with us getting a Peyton Manning caliber qb
Hopefully, but once Brady declines there may not even be a Payton Manning caliber QB in the league for quite a while.
I wouldn’t count on four years of Drew Brees, unless the bar is late 2014 and 2015 Peyton Manning.
I’ll settle for 2.
Depends on which Peyton Manning. The 2015 version?
Hopefully not unless it’s the Broncos that have him. Maybe we’ll have some parity in the league again and I don’t have to hate a single team that’s not in the same division as the Broncos so much.
I thought it was interesting that one of the first plays Lynch got was a bootleg, which made me think they were trying to make him look good.
I see the hand wringing has begun. Nothing like being a Broncos fan.
What we learned:
1. Having two starting RTs means you have no RTs as was painfully obvious to all of our QBs.
2. Khalif Raymond really wanted to put up some good game tape for other teams to look at last night.
3. Chris Harris is still the best CB in the league.
4. Maybe we should have moved up to draft Trubisky – he was everything Lynch was supposed to be.
5. Lynch is just not ready to be a starting NFL QB, and I don’t trust him off the bench either. Can’t read defenses, holds the ball too long and is a mediocre scrambler. And he’s clearly not a “leader of men.” It’s just sad when your rookie 3rd string back-up UDFA QB shows a better grasp of the offense than your prize 1st rounder in his second year. Sorry JE, but that’s just the awful truth.
6. I liked what I saw from Bolles. He isn’t the weak link on this line I thought he might be. Too bad we can’t clone him.
7. Schofield should get some 1st team reps at RT. Seriously.
8. Stephenson is toast. Maybe he could play backup guard at best – just not with the Broncos.
9. Lorenzo Doss deserves to make the 53 man roster. When they took the starters out and Chicago’s 1st team stayed on the field, he was our best DB by far, and quite possible our best Defender period.
10. I would seriously consider giving Kaepernick a call. He’s played behind bad lines before in SF, and when, not if, Siemian gets hurt because our line can’t protect him, he’d be far better in my opinion than Lynch. Hell, he likely would be the best QB on the roster if we signed him.
11. How bout that De’Angelo Henderson?
12. Run defense looked good until the starters came out. Then it was very iffy, and Gotsis (among others) clearly has some more work to do.
13. Did anyone see Simmons or Parks do anything when they were in there that stood out? I didn’t. TJ Ward’s agent must be a happy man today.
14. Chicago’s backups looked like they were more motivated than ours all night. We beat the Bears easily with our starters, but either our depth is worse than I thought (likely) or the 2nd and third team players don’t realize these games mean something for their career. At least that’s how it looked like based on their play against the Bears’ scrubs. Maybe that changes next game. I sure hope so.
15. Our pass rush wasn’t awful, but you can see that missing Von, Ray and Barrett makes a big difference. Let’s hope Ray and Barrett get healthy sooner rather than later.
16. Our TE play was – do we have any TEs on the team? I didn’t hear any of them mentioned. Maybe they blocked well in the run game because otherwise I didn’t see them making any impact on the game.
17. Yes, I know this was only the first exhibition game. That only makes it worse that Lynch couldn’t do anything, and Siemian’s lone scoring drive was based primarily on defensive penalties.
18. Our Defense is going to have to win games for us this season (again) if the Offense doesn’t dramatically improve. Too bad it is likely too late to trade for a decent RT.
19. Was it me, or did it look like McCoy was frustrated on the sidelines at the O’s inability to execute basic plays.
20. Jordan Taylor we hardly knew ya. He’ll be cut, probably get signed mid-season by the Pats and get a ring (I’m only half joking).
Bonus: Oh and Latimer looked good once again – in preseason. At least we know he can catch short passes over the middle.
Feel free to disagree with me.
Great List. Thanks for compiling. Agree on most all of it.
4. While Trubisky did look good, I would caution that it was mostly against players that will be selling cell phones at a mall kiosk in about a month. It’ll be interesting to see how he fares against some stiffer competition, especially now that there is going to be some tape on him.
5. Wholeheartedly agree. It wouldn’t surprise me a bit if Sloter moves into the #2 hole. If it wasn’t for draft pedigree, that would probably already be the depth chart.
11. Henderson played well and the TD run was good. He also had a nice run that was called back by penalty. However, he also only had 13 yards on his other 6 carries. I will say he seems to be a tough guy to tackle, which may bode very well for him.
13. I really didn’t see Parks do much but on the Harris INT, it looked like Simmons was right there and could have made an attempt at the INT if Harris didn’t get it first. Also, I thought I saw a TFL on a RB by Simmons. I can’t find any tape to support that though.
16. Agree on the TE’s. I wonder if it was play calling though. The offense seemed overly vanilla and it didn’t appear there were too many TE designated plays. In the boxscore, the TE’s were only targeted twice all night. Was that by design or because of their inability to get open? Probably both.
7 & 18. It might be too late to trade, but I agree our best option at RT was playing #3 G last night. Maybe there will be some surprise cuts from some other teams that the Broncos could jump on. Not likely, but maybe.
20. I like Sunshine but I agree with you here as well. The play that got me for him was the 2nd down catch from Siemian that would have easily been a 1st down if he had just turned up field. Instead, he thought he’d try to juke the defense and got tackled, setting up a 3rd and 1. Anyone who has watched a Bronco game over the last 3-4 years, knows this means doom. Our conversion rate on 3rd/4th and short has got to be in the teens. Hey, Sunshine, just get the 1st down and move the chains.
On Latimer – I wonder if they are trying to showcase him to try and trade him. It was obvious they were making an effort to get him the ball. In his defense, he made the catches.
A few of my observations to add (I didn’t read through the Game Thread so I apologize if I’m repeating anything said last night):
– I liked the play from Orion Stewart at Safety, but it’s going to be hard to keep #20 off the team if he keeps playing like that. Parks has got to be looking over his shoulder hard at those 2 young safeties.
– It’s very telling when, at the end of the game and they kept showing TS and PL on the sidelines, one had an ear piece in keeping involved in the game and one didn’t. Care to guess who didn’t?
– Dixon continued his strong punting with several landing inside the 10. The coverage needs a lot of work, but the punts were solid. This will be very important for us with this offense, unfortunately.
– I’m going to give the benefit of the doubt and chalk it up to rookie butterflies, but Rock Hands Carlos Henderson is going to fumble his way off this team if he doesn’t get that corrected. I know this has been a running theme for him throughout TC and it was painful to watch last night. Regardless of anything else, if you can’t hold on to the ball you will not be playing in the NFL for long. He’ll make the team because of his draft position, but he needs to be better at ball security.
– #67 Shakir Soto had some nice plays in 2nd half. He’s a young DL I’ll have to keep an eye on to see how he progresses.
Jamal Carter is a guy I’ve been interested by since we signed him. At 6’1″ 215 lbs, he’s definitely a tweener/moneybacker type, and it sure seemed to me like most of his snaps were at nickel/dime linebacker. So, while I think he’s probably got a clearer path to the roster than O.Stewart, I don’t think they’re (directly) competing with each other.
Also, I wouldn’t be too worried about our coverage units. They were awful in PS last year, but excellent in the regular season. One thing I noticed on a punt where nobody got close to the returner is that both gunners took an inside path downfield — that’s weird, and it makes me think they were trying new stuff (in addition to the usual playing-fringe-guys-who-aren’t-great-at-STs-and-forget-their-responsibilities-to-try-and-make-a-play).
That’s fair on the coverage units. I do think the loss of Kayvon will be felt here though. There were several contain issues that wouldn’t probably happen if the guys playing weren’t destined to be cut.
At the end of the game, Lynch was giddy thinking about his new Tinder matches and hopeful something will cum of them.
Like anyone would swipe right on that halftee.
Paxton Lynch is a stud with the ladies. It is known.
I keep thinking that one of these days he’ll whip out his gigantic dick and use it to fight off defenders. Maybe then he’d be willing to hang in the pocket for more than 2 seconds before bailing.
Not everyone has Orlando Franklin’s prehensile penis. Throw down the stiff…. arm?
Hahaha…oh man, that made me laugh.
Pirate fetish – it’s real.
Fan 1: What’s with his clothes?
Fan 2: Yeah, are you a pirate?
Trevor: Are you a pirate?
Lynch: Pirates are IN this year!
I don’t disagree. I think maybe you were a bit too generous. I’m starting to lose hope in Lynch. Trevor I think still shows promise. He’s got a cool demeanor and doesn’t get frustrated and appears to be a good leader. That being said, I think Keap might be a better option right now.
Maybe we should resign ourselves to playing 2 RT’s every game every play. At least it would give our QB a chance.
One last point I’d like to make is that VJ is feeding us a line of bullshit if, at the half, he’s going to talk about all the good things Lynch and Trevor did and that he was quite happy with the first two quarters. And after the game the quote about not even considering Sloter was some more bullshit. I’d but Sloter ahead of Lynch right now. Dont piss away an opportunity to improve your team just because your boss, a hall of fame QB, and the ex-head coach who’s now with the team as college football talent scout, picked a QB in the first round before you arrived on the scene. I realize there’s politics at play, but you won’t last long if you squander talent and hold on to a bust just to appease the front office.
Be an NFL head coach and coach this team. That means giving everyone a chance and not killing the hopes of one of your players like that. You think Sloter is going to think he has a fair chance now? It’s not fair to him. Even if it’s just an illusion you have give him hope. But in this case. It’s not an illusion. He was better than Lynch.
I sometimes feel the best thing that could happen for our QB competition is for Lynch to get injured and be out for the season. Then the FO would have to do acquire a better option as a backup to Siemian.
The worst thing about this is how his most-praised quality upon his hire (besides the much-mocked “leader of men” moniker) was that he preached accountability and was willing to call players out, even to the media. He did it to several Dolphins players last year, including veterans like Mario Williams. So far here… lolnope.
I don’t see a point to lay into anybody just yet. He’s new as a HC and the players are getting used to the new coaching staff and schemes. I could see if somebody just wasn’t trying, yes. But at preseason game one, “holding players accountable” is more like an asshole for the point of being an asshole move. I don’t think VJ is an asshole coach, not like Buttchinian.
Agreed. Sloter should be #2 after this next game, at the latest.
If Kubiak left for anything other than health reasons, I don’t think John Elway wants a HC that will go over his helmet.
I don’t think that Copernicus is better than Sloter.
2. If Raymond passes up McKinzie, so be it.
14. Were ‘real’ second string players in with the ‘firsts’ and ‘depth’ made up of thirds and worse. Since I wasn’t able to watch, IDK how much anyone played. No reason to play establised vets (DT, Sanders, Paradis, CJ, Von, Marshall, Talib, CHJ, TJW, Stewart) much.
16. I assume TE is mostly set. Unless JH or AJD fail badly, the most likely outcome is carry 4, stash Butt for the year, or let VG go. The WRs probably need looked at much more closely.
All the defensive starters were taken out after the first series pretty much. Sanders and DT only played one series I think. Chicago kept their first team offense and defense in far longer, well into the second quarter.
Certainly agree on Schofield playing RT. I wouldn’t be surprised that he ends up there and plays fairly well.
Very good summation of play. Thanks, Steven.
I was surprised to see this tweet from MHR.
Throwing shade even while finally admitting they were wrong.
I know there is a lot to be worried about, but let’s not lose site of how big it is that Bolles looks good so far. Besides having a quality QB on a rookie contract, there is probably nothing better than having a quality LT on a rookie contract. Additionally, getting quality play from Bolles will make getting quality play from the line immensely easier, this year and for the next several.
I am getting a little ahead of myself, but so far so good.
I feel like I need to rewatch the game before I can say anything about Bolles. I didn’t think about him like I did Watson or Stephenson (a good thing for an O-lineman!), but the sample size is also very small.
I think this is going to be a good team. Trevor will man the ship. Oline should we improved with exception of RT. Run game and run D should be improved as well.
ST is the one question mark, but I think it will be cleaned up.
As somebody who doesn’t get to watch the Broncos preseason games because I no longer subscribe to a TV package with NFL Network, but did see some clips of last night’s game… I’m going to try to put something up later today about things to keep in mind in general.
With that said, I can say that Round 1 of the QB starting job battle has gone to Trevor Siemian.
More like a tie (of poor performances) than Rd. 1 to Siemian.
More like a tie. That’s what John said!
How can you say that? I just rewatched and Siemian hit almost every throw he made. There was one PI call that was completely justified and would have been a catchable ball without it. Lynch had several big whiffs.
What did Trev do wrong in your eyes?
HE WAS BORN
He’s a bastid of the North (Chicago)! Trevor Snow.
I hope this sticks.
Never trust Al Bundy to fairly evaluate RBs…
The current Bronco fan mindset seems to be “every QB must be exactly like John Elway or Peyton Manning or HE’S A BUST!”
It is interesting how every QB we can bring in is a perfect analogue to another QB who’s been on our roster within the past 20 years (e.g. Siemian = Orton, Sanchez = Plummer, etc.)
Lynch = Tebow.
Tebow could scramble for yardage. Lynch really isn’t anything special in that department.
Funny. I was going to add something to that affect and also that Tebow at least had some leadership qualities.
Lynch: Arrugh Matey!
We can also talk about how it seems we fall in love with every third-string QB based on one preseason game when most of them in recent seasons haven’t lasted long.
I mean, it wasn’t that long ago we were enamored with Zac Dysert, Tom Brandstater, Adam Weber and some other guy whose name I forget, but hey, he was better than whoever the starter was, so put him with the first team!
Siemian seems to be turning out all right for a 3rd stringer, but I get your point. I will say, in this current situation, it’s not that I’m as enamored with Sloter as I am unenamored (it’s a new word) with Lynch. I thought Sloter played well and would like to see him play some more than a couple of drives, but I would not be in favor of throwing him with the 1s as a full time starter right now.
I’ve certainly said that Sloter played better than Lynch. Sure it was against 3rd and 4th string scrubs, but he was also playing with 3rd and 4th string scrubs.
Just because I say that, doesn’t mean I’m in love with him and think he’s the next coming of John Elway. All it means is I’m advocating for him based on his play compared to the other QB’s on the roster. I don’t think he’s better than Siemien. But he deserves a chance and not the outright dismissal that Vance Joseph gave him after the game.
I see Siemian as Griese, before the Raiders destroyed his shoulder, Shanahan destroyed his confidence, and alcohol destroyed his chances of getting back on top of things.
That’s how I see him too. Or, maybe a clean-shaven Orton.
Siemian seems a lot more level-headed and smart than Griese, though. Mental mastery was what made PMFM the GOAT.
C’mon, that’s not true. Of course that’s the standard we all hope future QBs meet, but opining Siemian seems more suited as a solid backup than starter is hardly calling him a bust. On the contrary, if we get anything out of a 7th rd. it’s a home run. Lynch on the other hand, doesn’t appear to have improved and struggles with many of the basics of playing QB, and it was reported he had some of the worst whitebaord sessions in combine history. So maybe he is a bust…
He wasn’t terrible, just not all that good. Made the safe, checkdown throws with accuracy. I guess to call it a tie may be generous to Lynch, but the point is neither is a QB that’s taking this team to the playoffs…
My concern with Siemian is that he isn’t that mobile, and will get hit a ton because of our O-line pass pro. So can he stay healthy? I like him personally, but the lack of mobility means he needs better O-line play in pass protection and we ain’t that team. However, he’s light years better than Lynch at this point.
I feel like mobile QBs get hit a lot more often than non-mobile QBs. Of the 30 guys that took most of their team’s passing attempts last year, the most-sacked (by percentage) were Kaepernick, Taylor, and Wilson/Luck (tied).
Non-mobile QBs get hit a bunch when the pass rush gets to them before they can even step up into the pocket – like last night.
Small Sample size (which is why he isn’t on your list), but worth noting Lynch had a higher sack rate than any of them.
The sample size is obviously an issue when looking at his play last season, but by pretty much any reasonable perspective, he was awful in the time he was on the field. Speaking of the mobile/immobile thing, we saw that same argument quite a bit here in 2015, but in the end, Brock Osweiler was taken down at a >50% clip than self-sacking coward Peyton Manning
Lynch’s slow decision making will cause him to take many more hits. There is a reason Rothlisberger gets hurts more than Brady.
QBs that are best at self protection have good pocket awareness and ability to get rid of the ball. QBs that can rely on their feet to bail them out in college aren’t forced to learn those things and usually never do.
Dang it, I posted a link to a live HD stream. I feel bad when you guys miss this stuff. Especially you Bob cause you could have had a lot of insight.
Saw that. Cable internet has been out since yesterday and my phone is on 3G.
Looks like the universe was against you on this one. I will try to post again for game 2.
This is the drawback with having moved to an area in which there may be a fair number of Bronco fans, but the Chiefs are the covered team by default.
(Yes, there are Chiefs fans in this area, too, but it’s hardly an area in which the Chiefs are No. 1. The Royals, on the other hand…)
Keep an eye out for game 2 and I will try to post another free live stream. I want everyone here to be able to see this stuff. The more eyes on it the better the feedback on this site.
all I had to do to watch the game is type into my google: “reddit broncos stream”, and I immediately was linked to a nice HD stream of the game.
I should add that I had other commitments related to my job, so I might not always get the chance to catch a preseason game when it airs.
priorities, man. priorities.
I dream that Lynch and a mid round was traded on draft day to a QB-desperate team for what became a late first used on projected starting RT Forrest Lamp.
DIdn’t most project Lamp as strictly a guard?
And I suppose that if trading Lynch is still a dream of yours, San Francisco would be an ideal team to talk with–and they’ll get a first hand look at him next week.
Supposedly Lamp’s T-Rex arms mean it’s impossible for him to play LT. Even thought the ‘official’ measurements, be it accurate or generous, has him coming in only slightly below Joe Thomas. I’m of the school of thought that proven ability to play football trumps measurables. I’d be fine drafting Lamp, trying him at a tackle spot, and knowing at worst you’ve improved at guard.
2017 QB class was supposed to be bad and 2018 projected to be awesome. Nobody is trading for Lynch now, unless we Osweiler him.
I’ve been advocating trading Lynch for about a year now. If the rest of the preseason goes as well as the first game for him, he will have considerably lessened his trading value.
That and a projected strong 2018 QB class.
I’m not sure his value was ever all that high. Trade partners will always wonder, “why are they so willing to move on from him so quickly?” The harder we try to trade him, the greater the worry.
Unless you’re Ryan Grigson evaluating RBs.
Ha. Damn. That was a brutal deal.
You mean, Ryan Grigson evaluating anybody except for sure things with the first overall pick.
Lynch for Joe Thomas? So you’re telling me there’s a chance?
Now he has little value so a trade isn’t happening. Elway has missed on two 6’7″ QBs when history has basically shown that being over 6’5″ is an impediment to playing the position well. Not that I think Siemian is more than a solid backup, but we can thank Kubiak/Knapp for taking a flier on that kid in the 7th rd. There will be silly calls for Chad Kelly (when healthy or whatever), but the reality is this team is w/o a good starting caliber QB.
The QB competition in like the battle on the tiny bridge in Monty Python Holy Grail. We are now at the “I’ll bite your kneecaps off!” “What are you going to do, bleed on me?” part. When Lynch has had both arms and both legs chopped to stumps, Elway will end it with the words “alright, we’ll call it a draw”.
Brave Sir Watson ran away! He bravely ran away, away! (I didn’t!) Defensive end reared his ugly head, he bravely turned his tail and fled (that’s a lie!) Sir Watson turned about, he bravely bravely chickened out…
There are those who call me…… DeAngelo.
I’ll bite your legs off!
This is a very good analogy.
What made anyone in the FO think Watson would be good (and be able to stay healthy) in Denver? It’s like nothing was learned from the failed Stephenson free agenst signing of only one year prior…
At least it seems like he can run block. [grasping for straws continues]
No he can’t…
So most seem displeased or at least unimpressed with Siemian, even though he went 6/7, and the one incompletion he had major pressure and a holding call would have nullified whatever he would have done. Does anyone have video of the failed 3rd down conversion, where he got 3 yards when he needed 5? Seems that was his “worst” mistake, and I want to rewatch and see how much of the blame falls on him. Siemian had 3 first downs on his 6 completions, and should of had a 4th if Taylor cut upfield after catching the ball rather than dancing back to try and make a guy miss, and a 5 yard pass to Sanders on first down (and a roughing the passer call earned them a first down anyways).
I thought TS looked just fine to be honest. Also had a nice outside shoulder to Sanders for what would have been a first. Only one play to me where he deliberately threw behind the first down line. The Taylor one should have been a 1st down. He had one inaccurate throw to Latimer which was still good enough for a completion and first down.
Taylor was running a shallow cross on that one, well short of the sticks. He was open but had no chance to turn upfield.
My memory isn’t perfect, but going to have to disagree with you there. It looked to me like if Taylor fell forward he would have gotten the first. Instead went backwards trying to juke a man.
There were two passes to Taylor. One was on 2&7 and we got 6 (then Ridley got blown up on 3rd and 1). This is the one I think Taylor should have gotten the first on.
The other was the third and 5, so you might be discussing separate plays.
Ah, thanks for clarifying!
Yeah, that other one was on Taylor, 100 percent. He had the first down and then gave it up.
I’m hoping an “every pass thrown by” video for both end up on YouTube. If anyone finds such a thing, or any else such that’s relevant, could it be posted here? One, I’d like to see for myself. Two, evaluation during live games can be… suspect.
I think in the context of limited preseason action you can only judge a player in terms of ok or not ok and he was ok. The difference in accuracy and timing between he and Paxton was clearly noticeable. The only hit I would give him is that his yards per completion were pretty low. But you really need to play a whole game to get a chance to hit a few downfield to push that up. If he played a whole game and had that YPC I would probably ding him for it a little.
yards per completion was a little low, but yards per attempt was respectable.
What I was getting at was that YPA was decent because he had 86% completion percentage. Extrapolate that through a whole game where drops and throw aways probably knock it down to 60%, then YPA goes way down. Very small sample so we shouldn’t parse too much. In general he looked pretty ok.
I don’t know what happened on the short pass, honestly. It looked like they were trying a rub across the center of the field, but the linebacker stayed in the middle of the field and was the one who closed and made the stop on Sunshine. Of course, he also ran at a depth of 2 yards on a 3rd and 4 (though given that there was another drag route just a bit deeper, I don’t think that was it). So, either the play was supposed to take out the linebacker, or Siemian misread what he would be doing and wasn’t expecting him to be there to make the tackle.
The 3-yard was a great play by the closing DB. Great read thrown in stride.
TS gonna get Griese’d right out of Denver.
I think he’s the best QB on the roster right now. He’s cool. Calm. Collected. This instills confidence in those around him. In my opinion he passes the eye test in terms of a guy that can get the job done with the kind of defense we have. Provided the O-line can hold up, Siemien should be able put together some drives and score some points for us.
Do I think he’s elite? No. Will he ever be elite? Probably not. But can he make good decisions and protect the ball? I think so. Can he be accurate? Yes. Will he extend drives with his legs? Probably not, but then he doesn’t have the same tendency Lynch has which is to tuck and run at the first sign of trouble. This is the perennial fall back for QB’s who were athletic in college but can’t seem to turn the mental corner at the NFL level and ultimately leads to their downfall because they tuck and run too much.
“Rumor of us being interested in anyone other than the QBs we have is another example of irresponsible, fake news!!” John Elway
How many of us really believe John Elway’s Tweet now?
It’s my guess that GMs talk more about potential trades that the public knows, with 99% of those talks getting nowhere near to serious. We saw this last year with Aqib Talib rumors as well. An example might be something like this:
–ML: Hey John, how’s your QB battle going?
–JE: It’s going.
–ML: Would McCarron help you out at all? We’re committed to Dalton for the long haul.
–JE: How much you asking?
–ML: Well, we think we can get a comp 3rd for him a couple years, so we’d like more than that.
–JE: That’s just too rich for us. But thanks for reaching out, Marvin, let’s stay in touch.
Now, in a strained way that could be interpreted as some sort of true interest, but also in an insignificant manner.
What I’m more interested in is who leaked it. I think someone said Clough got his scoop from Bengals sources, and if so that would make sense, as they have an interest in generating a market for him. Klis and Jhabvala’s denial sources likely came from the Broncos. I think if McCarron himself and his agent wanted a trade, one of the big national insiders would have leaked that by now.
I think the reason people keep reading so much into who teams want to trade for or trade away comes because of the whole Jay Cutler saga. Broncos fans, regardless of where they stand, still can’t move past it and think there’s something to every single rumor or idle discussion that goes down between teams.
Also, Joe Thomas!
Committed to Dalton in the Long haul. Hahahaha. That’s what makes them Bengals. I’d be shocked if Elway paid Dalton. Elway would let Dalton go and roll with the cheaper McC.
I would be more concerned if our GM wasn’t leaving all stones un-turned. I know there are going to be some over reactions, but CHJ, and Talib are not getting any younger. We have a small window of excellence that I would hate to see pissed away on stubbornness in cutting bait.
I’m concerned that our GM doesn’t know how to draft or evaluate offensive linemen.
Boles and Paradis have something to say about that.
Let’s wait a bit until we crown Bolles. He was bull-rushed right back into Trevor on the play where Watson’s man got the sack. Also:
Anyone I’m missing? Jury’s still out on Garcia. He seems to be regressing.
Orlando Franklin was a decent player for us. But, yes, overall, it’s not a very strong list.
I think Franklin was an excellent pick.
A young O Franklin starting at right tackle would probably change everybody’s narrative right about now.
If you are counting free agents, Vazquez, Ramirez, and Mathis all played well for us at times. For what we paid, Okung played pretty well.
I mean, getting Mathis was a good move, but he was a known talent. Vazquez was definitely a good signing. ManRam was meh. And I advocated for picking up Okung’s option, so I’ll have to give you that one.
Overall, though, his track record is terrible, especially in the draft. People need to wake up to this reality. He’s added very little talent to this team over the past few years, and we’re seeing the results on the field.
It’s definitely concerning. At the same time, I’m not sure the sky is falling. Somewhere in the middle.
I’ve hypothesized that if he had just hit on one more player (say Ty Sambrailo at RT) we would be in pretty dang good shape on the line and the narrative would be flipped. Sometimes one hit or miss is all it takes.
While Mathis was a known talent, he was also coming to the end of his career. It wasn’t so much a slick move by Elway, and it wasn’t an easy layup either. It was a low risk gambit that paid off.
There’s a big difference between signing guys who’ve proven themselves at the NFL level and drafting unproven O-lineman out of college. Elway is a much better FA aquisitioner than he is drafter. He’s better at reading the current trends in the NFL market and not overpaying players and getting good guys at the right time when he has the money. He’s better than most teams at taking advantage of the comp pick system. He doesn’t over pay for guys when the market is bad for a particular position. Sometimes that means leaving a postion that’s deficient up to chance or up to the draft, which goes back to Elway’s apparent lack of success. This is why we’ve had problems with left and right offensive tackle the past few years.
McGovern is a boss and I won’t tolerate any backtalk. YOU JUST WATCH.
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a full-grown professional football player attack another man and get embarrassingly rag-dolled like Garrett Bowls did last night.
His strength issues are not overstated, and you can be sure that they will be attacked without mercy in the regular season.
Maybe that’s fixable overtime, but I wouldn’t pencil in Garrett as your decades-long starter quite yet.
I heard somewhere else about the rag-dolling as well but I don’t recall seeing it. On what play did that happen?
O line has been the weak position group. Along with RB, but improvement from Booker, Ridley sticking, getting something from JC, or DAH excelling as a rookie could turn that around.
Trevor: calls agent, updates possible trade scenerios
Lynch: “John? I’m still your boy, right? Right, John? John?”
John: GTF away from me you goof ball!
I do. Most of Dove Valley’s statements and actions have a particular twinge of delusion to them.
In preseason game 2 I’d like to see De’angelo Henderson get some reps earlier in the game he sure looked good against the scrubs.
Frequent Criticism of Siemian I hear is third down struggles and throwing short of the sticks. I may do a more in depth analysis, but I looked at PFR data and found that Siemian was slightly below average in Comp%, 1D/Attempts, 1D/Comp, and sack rate, and slightly above average in 3rd down QB Rating and yards per attempt. The sample is small on Lynch, but he was significantly below average on all of those metrics.
Brutal for the Dolphins. I thought McMillan was a big sleeper among all that other great defensive talent that tOSU had.
Siemian looks like he can at the minimum be a decent placeholder. He was generally accurate and made quick, good decisions. I think he can keep the Broncos in the playoff picture if Watson et. al. do not get him broken in half.
Lynch has given us more reason to doubt his long term viability than to be hopeful about it. The contrast between he and Trubisky was troubling. I think if the season ended with Siemian being meh and Lynch not showing anything more than he has to date that the Broncos are in the 1st round QB market, especially if it turns out to be a strong class.
Sloter didn’t do anything to move himself from the PS conversation to the 53 conversion. It’s probably going to be safe to pass him through waivers if they want him as the PS #3. Especially with all the cuts happening at once this year.
If Kelly doesn’t come of NFI this week I don’t see him doing so before the season. He’s running out of days to get reps.
Sanchez is in an eerily similar position to last year. Looks like he will get passed by Trubisky and be in danger of not making the team. It’s funny that the announcers raved about he mentored Prescott last year but didn’t mention that he spent the whole off season with Lynch.
I think this is Kelly’s redshirt year.
Take that, Trubisky. Even Osweiler’s out-trending you on Yahoo.
Man, Sloter 3rd. Our fan base is the worst.
Sloteritis is going around.
He is getting 50% of the vote to start on the DP poll. Nice.
Because he lacks the pedigree of Siemian?
Because the sky is falling after one preseason game in a new offense and when the real problems lie in the offensive line play. Any QB would get Sloter-ed back there.
I like Brock.
He likes him as a Brown, lol.
Me too but he really didn’t have the ST looking that great last night.
I see what you did there.
Chelsea Manning could be a better option at QB than Ice T or Pax based on last name alone.
Personally I think Free Credit Score has the most upside.
Well it’s free, so there’s that. High Ceiling, low risk.
Suck it, Dak.
So he plays against all our division rivals but not us.
WunderKid gonna tumble back to earth. Can’t wait to see Dak’s splits with/without EE.
Resolve the suspension before Sept. 17, por favor.
NFL doesn’t drag appeals out like Baseball. He’ll be suspended come week 1.
Looking at the Cowboys’ schedule, if this does get dragged out, it’s possible for him to miss two AFC West rival games, but (barely) not all three. The Chiefs and Raiders games are seven games apart, with the Chargers in between on Thanksgiving.
Are you aware of a case where a player delayed a suspension handed down in the off-season or preseason into the regular season?
Brady for Deflategate, obviously, but that was unusual.
There was also the time Shawne Merriman got popped for PEDs, but that was during the regular season. He dropped his appeal when he and the Chargers realized that had he appealed, he could have missed both games against the Broncos.
Interesting timing that Merriman’s PED suspension conjoined with him passing his physical peak. He was never Lights Out again. Correlation not causation, I’m sure.
The overflow words are “receipt of notice of appeal”.
So glad the league announced right now. I’m starting a slow draft in 30 minutes and I have the fourth pick.
6 games, probably reduced to 4. Taking Zeke 4th should be out of the question…
I was thrilled to get Odell Beckham Jr. @ 4.
Edited above, meant to write shouldn’t.
The format of this league is different. It’s called a draft champion league. 35 rounds. No free agency. No playoffs. No lineups; you get your best possible starting unit each week after all games are played.
Total points after week 16 dictates the winner. $150 entry. League pays 800/300/100. Overall champion gets another $22,000, but has to beat out about 1800 teams to do it.
Elliott just went 11th, which is too high with a quarter of his season taken, IMO. I will strongly consider Fournette if he’s there @ 2/21. Nothing about this summer makes me think he won’t get surpass 250 carries and get every goal line look.
So it’s just waiting now? No decisions the rest of the way?
Well, this is a four hour per pick slow draft, so it will take us a week or two to fill our rosters, but for this particular league, once you draft your team, your responsibility is over. The NFCC created this format mainly so guys could start drafting teams literally in February.
I will have one Draft Champion team this year (and three Cutline teams) but many NFFC vets will have more than a dozen.
This sentence is extremely triggering to Bills fans right now.
“This surprises me.” –nobody.
Think they waited until after HOF week to move forward on Zeke to lessen the platform Jerrah would have to vent?
That was heavily rumored by many people.
This is hard for Jerry to process. No way does he believe women and DJ’s have the same rights as productive football players.
And he was so sure that it was a “she said, he said” type of thing.
Is he on Twitter? This looks like a good time to get blocked.
Not verified, and no tweets since 2011, but Elway and Schefter are both following.
He probably forgot his password and never bothered to try and log back in because of it.
I think Schofield and Sambrailo will wind up fourth in fifth in lineman snaps.
Haven’t read it yet, but supposedly this details his multiple offenses.
Yep, I’m reading it right now…
I was at the game last night and I am extremely impressed with the Bears young QB, he had a good game, great decision making, scrambled well, no bad throws… this kid looked nice….
Wish he’d been wearing white instead of blue.
He looks like someone with a future.
But he’s in Chicago, so…
Bills fans will bitch, but trading up for that tease was the worst thing that franchise has done in the last decade.
Guess it’s no bullshit about Kayvon Webster emerging into a starting job. Good for him.
Meanwhile, that draft day trade has to go down as one of the worst in recent memory, and Giants fans can especially laugh at it.
Ah, geez, yours went up about a minute before mine.
At any rate, the first week of the preseason hasn’t even finished yet and we’ve got a lot of water cooler talk going around here!
Bills got any OL they’d be willing to trade for Lynch?
Sambrailo’s a Rico guy, get something for him.
Package them for Cordy Glenn and some draft picks.
Nah,they’re gearing up for a tank season, a high draft pick, and moving up in a deep QB class next year.
NFL: we’re determined to make the Zeke Elliott suspension the news of the day.
Bills: hold my beer.
And then the Bills turned around and did this.
Sounds like the new Bills regime is moving on from a lot of the draft picks that Doug Whaley either made or had a hand in selecting.
The Bills are following a rough version of the Browns’ blueprint.
I was criticizing them for blowing chances at 3rd and 4th round comp picks a few months ago. Suffice to say they don’t need to worry about that anymore if they don’t want to.
my hot takes:
*Siemian looked serviceable. I’m totally cool with dinking and dunking. He did attack deep on his second throw, negated via offsetting penalties. The throw was on target and accurate. He took more shots than he should though – not 100% convinced that’s on the line. Maybe the ball needs out faster?
*Lynch looked like Tebow to me. sits in pocket too long and then runs. Not good.
* running game looked good. CJ had some nice runs: 6,5,2,3,5. More runs for 5 or more than 4 or less, so that’s nice. Henderson had some really nice wiggle and burst too. Really like what I saw from that kid.
*defense: CHJr is ready. 1st team run D looked improved – flow to the ball, pretty good discipline. Things got worse as the 2nd stringers got in.
*disappointed that the 1st and 2nd string offenses managed just 3 points. not good.
*RT is going to be the achilles heel of this offense. They’ve got to get their act together.
Seems accurate to me.
No reason to go deep in the preseason. Let the rest of the NFL believe the Trevor Dink n Dunk narrative. The ball needs to come out if TS is going to survive behind this line.
Hope RT gets help in the regular season but no reason to do so now, other than helping TS stay alive.
I’ll give you a topic: Roger Goodell made the Ezekiel Elliott suspension announcement today because he knew the Bills trades were coming… discuss!
Doubt it. But definitely sat on the suspension until after the Jones HOF festivities…
Interesting comments from Jeff Legwold, why Siemian’s 6/7 is mostly meaningless:
“Both Broncos quarterbacks gave played like I’ve seen guys in quarterback competitions play over the years — they take the completions, often too quick to check down, instead of waiting for the routes downfield to develop. It’s a natural reaction to try to win the job and Paxton Lynch really in that mode on the last possession. The guy who relaxes first might win the job.”
I wonder if the QB competition and how it’s been handled by the media has hurt both these guy’s confidence. At this point I kind of wish they had just named Siemian the starter in May and lets things play out more naturally in camp.
I agree on one hand, but playing quarterback in Denver is always going to be pressure packed. I might be in the 1% of Bronco fans who wants to see Paxton get a chance with the first unit next week. If Siemian wins the job and holds it, this might be the only significant Lynch action we see this year.
I want to see Paxton get that look too who knows maybe he’ll surprise us this whole situation has just become frustrating. After Lynch came out last night I told my buddies watching the game “watch sloter throw a TD pass and half the dipshit fans will be calling for him to start tomorrow morning if you go to twitter or more reactionary sites I think my prediction was proved correct.
Literally half. Sloter currently has 50.2% in this Denver Post Poll
I don’t want Sloter to start, but I also don’t want to see him immediately branded as a Brandstater like Trevor was, either.
I’m anxious to get through training camp already. Hopefully Trevor will keep improving and the pressure will be off Lynch once the season is underway. I haven’t given up on Lynch. We knew he was a project. He played under a coach who wasn’t thrilled to have him. Now he’s changing schemes. These are all things that can undermine a young player’s confidence. He is a bit immature for his age, which they knew when they picked him. It’s true he was airmailing a lot of balls last night, but I also remember the Broncos having to try and keep Elway from getting too jacked up before games in his early years.
Would I have preferred we drafted Ogbah, Correa, either Henry or Michael Thomas? Hell, yeah. But we could have also wound up babysitting Robert Nkemdiche, too. Paxton is a sunk cost, who retains, at worst, solid trade value unless we actively ruin him.
I agree that Lynch at least deserves a chance to practice with the 1’s and be the man.
As a Buff fan, Montez sucked beyond comprehending when he was thrown into the Michigan game because Sefo was injured. At Oregon the next week, with a game plan and practice, he was player of the week. Let’s see what the Pirate can do (personally, I don’t expect much but I am usually wrong about most everything, just ask my wife).
I think he’s on the money with this comment.
Agreed… but Paxton has never really shown the capability to wait for the routes to develop and then complete a pass.
He does pretty good on the first part.
But then he takes off.
I don’t think he is wrong but I don’t think the offensive line is doing it’s job long enough for those downfield routes to develop.
Good point and even when they do hold a pocket, it’s not like the quarterbacks have much confidence in them. But I do feel the line will be vastly improved this year.
I hope you are right about the Oline.
I believe Paradis will be better, with the ability to practice during the week this year, once he’s healed. There’s practically 0% of these debridements having a negative effect. Leary and Bolles should be upgrades. I also think we can cobble together competent play at the other two spots.
I hope so
Hope you are right, but I did not see that last night.
Trevor was getting pounded by a mediocre defense.
I know this is the popular narrative, and I haven’t rewatched the game or looked at A22 film or anything, but I’m not sure I buy this.
Siemian went down field several times on 7 or 8 pass attempts. He threw short of the sticks once on third down, and now the narrative is he was dinking and dumping all night, and he’s reached a ceiling and is captain check-down.
I don’t think that’s fair.
I am willing to live with Trevor Siemian as the Denver Broncos’ quarterback this season. From what I have seen in the two training camp practices that I observed and last evening’s preseason game, he is clearly the best, feasible option for Denver at this point. As of now, I trust Siemian far more than Paxton Lynch.
As has been discussed, Lynch is still struggling lining up directly under center, reading defenses, and being asked to do more than be a one-read passer. Lynch probably has better physical tools and a higher ceiling that Siemian, but I am not sure that Lynch has a keen desire to make the efforts and sacrifices necessary to become elite or even competent. To me, Siemian is more dedicated, determined, and cerebral. I also think that Broncos’ players view Siemian as the better option and player at this point.
I wish that Vance Joseph would just name Siemian the starter already. I realize that he would be reneging on his promise to give Lynch the start against the 49ers on August 19, but at this point, I think that Siemian and the team would benefit more from having Siemian take as many first-team repetitions as possible rather than perpetuating a sham quarterback competition.
Contrarian here. I disagree with naming Siemian the starter yet. It’s still too early. I think VJ is handling the QB competition the only way it can be handled, given the situation. Siemian is obviously head and shoulders above Lynch (metaphorically), but the challenge with Siemian is that his ceiling is known. He will never be better than an “above average” QB a la Alex Smith. Does anyone really see him progressing into a Top 10 QB that will win games for you? And add in that Siemian will need to be paid $$$ in a year with a new contract.
Lynch, on the other hand, has the *potential* to be more. His ceiling is still TBD, but has shown flashes of greatness, which is why he was drafted 1st round. Problem is his head doesn’t match his body. Lynch hasn’t progressed as quickly as everyone had hoped. I don’t think it was ever feasible for Lynch to display better judgment and decision-making ability than Trevor in training camp and pre-season. That’s Trevor strength and he has too big a jump on Lynch. Lynch could, however, show clear and steady growth. Display a trend that will give coaches confidence will continue into the season. If he does that, he’ll be the starter before long.
VJ has to give Lynch sufficient opportunities to show growth. Give him playing time with the 1’s against the 1’s. Doesn’t matter that Trevor has been more consistent in camp and in 1st preseason. Consistently boring is what he is. Paxton needs as many real opportunities to spark as possible. If it doesn’t happen this year, it probably ain’t ever happening for him.
Trevor’s floor is much higher than Paxton’s. At worst, Trevor will be a quality backup in this league for years. Paxton will either GET IT and become a starter or he’s out of the league soon. With his physical tools, if his mental game catches up he starts. If it doesn’t, he’s finished.
Thanks! I got tired of the non-football conversation here so took a break for a while. But now that we have real football to talk about there’s no better place to be! It’s going to be an exciting year with this team. Predicting close games until the offense shifts into gear.
The other piece is if Siemian is named the starter now, the calls will be greater when Siemian struggles to bring in Lynch. If you let Lynch go with the 1s next week and he still looks bad, it will help the team and fans will have more confidence in Siemian ever looks Rocky. I think that is both in Siemian and the team’s best interest. There’s the chance Siemian looks worse next week and Lynch looks better, complicating things.
What are Paxtons flashes of greatness? He had 2 TD passes last season, both from inside the 10 and in garbage time. He has one career pass of over 30 yards. He had one good game – the TB game, where he came off the bench and played well against the #26 passing D (in terms of NY/A), missing Gerald McCoy.
Are we assuming flashed of greatness on the basis of college tape and draft pedigree?
I’ve seen flashes of greatness. From Trevor.
He looked good when he was rolling out and running around during that one game when he came in right before halftime and was running a two-minute drill. I wouldn’t call it “flashes of greatness” but it was dynamic enough to be exciting to the fan base… other than that, I’m still taking the wait and see approach.
I would put his success in that game at least in part to the opponent having prepared for Siemian and not for him. He took the defense by surprise and got some success off of that. I wonder how he would have done had he started?
This is why him starting against SF is critical to his having success this season. We will see how he does when a team game plans against him with their 1st team defense – even though it is the 49er’s.
Interesting that there’s such an absolute consensus on Trevor Siemian’s ceiling, that it’s totally known. From what I recall, no one thought he was an NFL prospect. No one thought he would get drafted. No one thought he would be on the roster. No one thought that he would be able to compete for a starting job. No one thought he would actually start. No one thought that he would play above replacement level. No one thought that he would still have his job by the end of the season. No one thought that he could hold off an improved Paxton Lynch after a year.
I guess what I’m saying is that I should probably go get my head checked for memory loss, because that’s how I remember things. Clearly, that’s not right, because everyone and their mother knows that his ceiling is an NFL backup. All he’s ever done, and will continue to do, is be the career backup that everyone always knew he would be.
I’ve spent a lot of time looking at “successful” quarterbacks who were taken late (and it let me to be one of the people saying the odds he would even make it this far were very long), but it’s also shown me that most of those guys who were successful took time to get there and improved throughout there career. Siemian arguably had the greatest season by a late or UDFA in the first 3 years of there career. Does that mean he’ll keep improving? not necessarily. But I do you are right that the “low ceiling” talk is garbage. If the Broncos want to make one of their current options at QB work, they need to be patient. Not decide that Lynch is already a bust and Siemian has already reached his ceiling.
I remember your article about late-round QBs. I said then that my evaluation of Siemian was based solely on me watching him, and so I didn’t buy into most of the narratives around him last year. Just so it’s known where I’m coming from in this, I evaluated him as at least an early-mid 2nd rounder (keeping in mind that when I put prospects in a round, it’s pretty rough, and they’re pretty rarely right when it comes to where the player is actually selected). Northwestern was/is also a much worse team than Florida State and Oregon, where the consensus top QBs in Winston and Mariota were playing, so that complicates things.
Just to clarify, when did you give him a 2nd round grade?
When Rapoport originally reported him as a sleeper candidate that the Broncos were checking out. I looked him up, and for the life of me I couldn’t figure out why he wasn’t at least draftable. I did a lot of research on him before the draft ever came around, and I was very focused on him throughout 2015 when he was a random bottom-of-the-roster player.
That’s like being a fan of No Doubt (substitute band of your choice here) before they were famous.
I should have become a Siemian hipster, where I booed him when he started games and accused him of selling out.
This guy was drafted in the ninth round and released and he had some good seasons in his first three years.
Fair. I usually limit it to post merger though.
Undrafted shelf stocker?
He was first in the league in 1994 (In Green Bay’s Training Camp). Needed time bagging groceries and playing in the arena league before he was ready.
Same thing With Warren Moon before you bring him up.
“Siemian arguably had the greatest season by a late or UDFA in the first 3 years of there career.”
Neither Warner or the victim of blatant racial discrimination you mentioned were in the NFL, so I don’t see how that’s disqualifying for the competition you’ve set up here. Do you think Roger Staubach got better at playing quarterback spending five years slapping it on a boat?
Not trying to take anything away from those guys. Just that there is a difference between guys in there upper 20’s who had attempted to come into the league, refined there skills elsewhere, and then quickly came to greatness than what Siemian did straight out of college.
Whether you include Warren Moon or Kurt Warner in this stat doesn’t really change much. I’m just trying to show that while it’s incredibly rare for late round QBs to ever have success, it’s even rarer for it to come while they are still so young and inexperienced.
UDFA Tony Romo, blocked by Bledsoe in year 1/2, had a pretty nice first season as a starter.
Even Jon Kitna was pretty decent in his third season.
Don’t misunderstand me. I love Trevor and I always root for guys like this. He also reminds me a lot of a very dear friend, but nothing about his first season had an all time best quality to me.
I wonder how many records Warren Moon would’ve broken if he would’ve started in the NFL his whole career?
Amazing that not even the Seahawks would give him a tryout as a QB coming out of school.
Well said. I agree that it’s unfair to prematurely put a ceiling on Siemian after all the odds he has already defied. But come on…beating out Sanchez and Lynch haven’t exactly been high hurdles to cross.
Also…I would think you have to admit there are reasons the coaches are extending the QB competition instead of naming Siemian the starter early to give more opportunity to Lynch, and this after having a year to observe Siemian’s play and growth. And I bet if Siemian wins the starting job as expected, there will be another QB competition next year too…because coaches hope to find better. His job will never be safe because, despite our hopes otherwise, his play is likely to remain mediocre.
Where are the late-game comeback drives? Where is the command of the huddle? Leading the team marching down the field? Just not seeing it. Not yet, anyway. If/When Siemian takes command of the offense and leads game-winning comebacks I’ll gladly eat crow. Nothing against the guy, just want this team to win games.
I tend to think it’s disrespectful to players to describe them as “defying the odds”. My point isn’t that X% of people in the same situation accomplished Y%, it’s that people were wrong, and to this point, have continued to be wrong. And now they’re right? I dunno, I don’t feel like projecting a year or more into the future based on that.
Even if you think that Sanchez/Lynch aren’t great hurdles (which they aren’t), he still ranked ~20th in most passing metrics. No matter how you choose to look at that, it greatly exceeds the expectations that were set for him by most people. I don’t know why the coaches are continuing the competition; I agree that there’s a reason, but from all observation it’s not based on the play of him nor Lynch, so there’s not much he can do about that. Even if he remains a mediocre, ~20th ranked QB, I doubt Lynch will ever hit that point. If the Broncos want to try and exceed that next year (assuming he does plateau), they’re free to do so, but everything we do now should be based on who’s the best QB on our roster right now, not whether we can someday hopefully do better than that guy.
As for the comeback drives, he had three 4th quarter comebacks in 14 games last year, per PFR (13 games, really, since he’d need to finish it). Command of the huddle is a dubious thing to evaluate from the outside, but I thought he exhibited that from the beginning of last season. If teammates have mentioned his command/presence, it’s been in a complimentary way, especially for a young player. And, I don’t know, I generally go by benchmarks for young QBs. As long as a guy is making progress in the more difficult areas of quarterbacking (things like throwing receivers open against zone, audibling plays, timing throws, recognizing exotic coverages, red zone offense, etc.), I think he’s on the right track. Year 1, I wouldn’t necessarily expect any of that, year 2 they should have some of it down, and by year 3 they should be reasonably adept in all situations. Before any of that, they should be proficient and consistent in their mechanics, accuracy, playfakes, and other basic aspects of quarterbacking (which I don’t think Lynch has yet done). We’ll see how Siemian does this year; I expect him to improve in some of these areas, but not be perfect. If he hasn’t done that, maybe I’ll start worrying about plateaus. I’m totally more worried about the guy who doesn’t appear to have made much, if any, progress in the basics after a full year (needless to say, I don’t think a QB has to play real games to improve on the basics).
LOL are you related to Trevor? 🙂 That’s quite the tribute.
Everyone likes rooting for the underdog. I’m just disappointed in Trevor. Lynch hasn’t shown much at QB yet. I expected Trevor to come in and clearly stand out at camp, to show that continued progress from last year, to dominate the competition. But he didn’t. He’s starting to separate himself a little now, but it took much longer than I was anticipating. And he didn’t show much in the first preseason game. Because of this I now have serious doubts about Trevor’s growth trajectory. Thinking he’s approaching a ceiling. And it has me concerned. And I think the coaches are concerned too. That’s all I’m saying.
??? Most of that had nothing to do with Siemian in particular, just my thoughts on unheralded prospects and QB development. Honestly, I don’t care about underdog status or his “everyman” personality or whatever it is that draws other fans to him. I think he’s the best QB that we have, and that we’re likely to get. My only concern is him losing out to Lynch unduly, because I think he sucks.
To me, it’s been pretty inarguable that the competition is slanted toward Lynch, which I would speculate to be based on his draft status; I wouldn’t use the ongoing competition to make an argument, especially since by most observations it is now one-sided. Anyway, I’m pretty cocky about my takes on scouting players, but even keeping it to myself, I wouldn’t deign to make a conclusion off of nine dropbacks. You must be very good. Good luck in the upcoming football season!
I’m a nobody and not trying to argue, just add my opinion that if Siemian’s ceiling was higher and he was still rapidly growing I would think he should be differentiating himself from Lynch more than he is by now. You and I both agree that Lynch sucks (so far). The fact that Trevor failed to stand out in the competition for so long was concerning.
The competition is most definitely one-sided, slanted towards Lynch. And as I said earlier, I think it’s right for the coaches to make it so to find out what they have in Lynch. Not fair to Siemian, but nothing in Trevor’s football career has been fair it seems.
Trevor is likely going to be our QB. I agree completely that he gives us the best chance to win this year given the other options. Support that decision fully and hope he continues to improve so this offense can help the defense win games.
Personally, I just fundamentally disagree with the notion that draft status should matter once a couple of players are on a roster. Only what a player has proven in the league should matter. The pick used on the player is nothing more than a sunk cost.
So, if Trevor is playing better now, he is the starter until somebody else unseats him.
I know that’s not what teams do all of the time, but it’s what I want my favorite team to do. It’s what teams that find gems like Chris Harris Jr. and Rod Smith do.
Now, if his current work isn’t good enough and nobody on your roster is better, we can consider looking elsewhere to free agency to see if anybody who has done something in the league is available. Personally, I wouldn’t mind signing a guy like Kaepernick, but otherwise, I don’t want Lynch to get anything handed to him. He must beat out Siemian and if he can’t, his draft status is irrelevant.
I would even be good with a handful of 3rd down conversions.
The reality is that lower pedigree athletes in every sport have to prove themselves repeatedly before that stink wears off and their blue chip counterparts get many more chances to succeed. Not necessarily fair, but understandable if you factor in historical precedent (higher regarded athletes succeed at higher rates overall) and the financial and team resources involved. The Falcons gave up on a kid back in ’92 just because he was a dumb lazy alcoholic I’m sure they’ve regretted it over the years.
Yet that historical precedent is impacted by disparity of opportunity.
The challenge with Siemian is that his ceiling is known. No player’s ceiling is known early in their second year playing. Especially QB where intangibles are as important or more so than measurables.
I also believe Siemian is the starter, but it’d be unfair and would shatter the poor confidence Pax seems to have. Leaving this decision for after Niners game is fair.
Let’s say Lynch plays the first half and looks the same. Do you play Siemian in the second half? If you don’t you are implicitly announcing your decision. If you do you are playing your starting QB in the second half of a preseason game surrounded by backups.
If that’s the case I’d play him 1-2 series in the third quarter and then hand it off to Sloter. I agree that not playing Siemian at all would effectively announce your decision, which you might not want to do at that point. On the other hand, you definitely do need to make the decision before the third game, and if Lynch plays very poorly in the first half it may be fairly obvious at that point.
I’m interested to see how TS does with the 2s against the 2s.
An old friend just got a Twitter account and made it no secret which team he played for is the one he identifies with the most.
Yeah he’s been on OnB radio all morning filling in for Tyler Polumbus.
Anybody else see any of Garrapolo’s highlights from last night? If Brady shows any signs of decline this year what’s the chance he gets the Favre or Montana treatment next offseason?
They obviously valued having Garrapolo around in case of Brady being injured this year over a ransom of picks will be interesting to see if they let him walk. You would think he wants to play at some point.
The only way they can prevent him from walking is either offer him enough money to keep him, or tag him. I’m guessing on the free agent market he gets at least Brock Money, and I’m not sure NE wants to pay him anywhere close to that (unless Brady’s time really is nearly up)
Even if they were willing to pay starter money to him, he may decide he wants to go somewhere else where he can play rather than be Brady’s backup.
Unlikely, and would take some serious decline, but also not impossible.
I hope he plays well past his decline and I hope his decline happens soon and sudden. His comments about Manning still irritate me. He’s a douche.
Believe me, I hate the guy as well. After predicting his downfall last season, I’ve decided I’m just going to accept that he will play at a high level until he is 45.
Hopefully I’m wrong and will be pleasantly surprised, but it beats always thinking the end is near only to see him keep winning.
Which comment about Manning are you referring to?
I tend to believe those that say Brady was showing signs of decline in 2015 which were (mostly) covered by scheme. And that the deflate-gate suspention saved Brady from a Peyton Manning 2014 fadeaway. Add that to unusual offseason moves that seem short term focus, I think this is the swan song.
If Brady has to play all 16 games in the regular season – I think you are right in saying he will be showing signs of decline. Little body aches here and there. Not able to rely on his arm being accurate. Hurting more when he gets hit (Von will love that). Yeah!
I believe he is referring to the comments that Brady wrote in an email to a friend stating that he would break all of Manning’s records because he is playing for way longer.
You don’t pass up the offer for JimmyG if you just want him as a backup a bit longer and let him go for a 3rd round comp. You don’t ride even a GOAT as they decline if you think you have a long term starter in the wings.
Only 2 possibilities that make sense have occurred to me. One, there is certainty about Brady’s curtain call in NE and JimmyG is in their long term plans. Two, they will tag and trade JimmyG. Wasn’t that what they did with Cassell?
Here’s the obligatory: “Hey, Mile HIgh Brasil has posts” comment of the day.
As usual, GT is your frenemy
Favorite line: “Those who started getting on Kyle Sloter’s hype train please drop off, because this train will not provide services.” XD
Kyle Sloter hype train = Spirit Airlines
“However, there is one thing Denver must do now. Name Lynch the starter. He was terrible against the Bears. His throws were high, his decision making was Tebow-esque, as in slow, and he was unprepared. None of that matters.
What exactly does Denver have to lose?”
Actually, this post is a pair with this one: https://www.milehighreport.com/2017/8/11/16130898/broncos-need-to-name-trevor-siemian-the-starting-quarterback
Somebody is fake news in this situation.
This is diametrically opposed to Vance Joseph’s comments about the situation. The one thing he’s not going to do is bench the guy who the locker room supports.
Hot takes, get yer hot takes here!
(And kind of dumb takes too, for that matter.)
Other than the 2017 season, nothing.
Wonder what those guys are smokin’ over there???
This sucks. Sorry to hear that.
Sucks. Feel for the guy.
On the bright side we have our excuse lined up for when the run defense struggles.
Fuck! Our D-line depth is thin. We don’t even have a starting Right DE as it is. Crick is a perennial backup/rotational player. He’s not a true starter. and from everything I’ve heard, Gotsis isn’t catching up to his professed potential.
Gotsis still can’t anchor properly. Popcorn muscles are no substitute for solid technique at the pro level.
This is a concept that some people just cannot comprehend. There is a night and day difference between a power lifter, and a football player.
Vance Walker is unsigned. I would bring him in for a physical.
Agreed. Kick those tires.
Worth looking into. But when there is a position group where depth is important and NOBODY picked him up, I have to wonder why.
Bad luck, I feel for him most of all. Good guy. It’s a loss for sure, was going to be very useful rotational player.
Not sure it’s an exact replacement but agree looking at old friend Walker would be good idea.
(I’m higher on Crick than some are here btw.)
So much for that tough talk by Coughlin.
Since the contract was terminated, does that mean he keeps his signing bonus (that he was going to have to return upon retirement)? If so, mission accomplished. Maybe he’ll even get a decent contract and keep playing.
We need a right tackle. (I am only half-joking.)
I wouldn’t mind if we kicked the tires… as absolutely stupid as that is.
I would also be in contact with Orlando Franklin to monitor the status of his knee injury.
He’s better than Albert at this point.
He’d be a better swing tackle than Ty or Steph.
Hm, Florio thinks that the Jags may be able to get back his signing bonus money even after cutting him.
Maybe Coughlin is still playing hardball.
Sorry if posted already but a pretty solid and imho fair assessment of the good bad and ugly from game one by Klis:
Won’t disagree with much there, and I like that it’s fairly level-headed.
He lost me at “Edebali has earned the right to start in place of Ray.” 91 did get pressure on Glennon on the CHJ INT but he hit Glennon in the head and easily could have been flagged. He also got totally wiped out on the Trubisky to Cruz TD pass.
I think Edebali has earned the right to start in place of Ray until Ray returns from injury.
That’s how I read it as well. Not to replace Ray regardless of injury. He looks like he’ll be some nice depth once Ray and Barrett get back.
He did say in the opener, so I didn’t take it to mean over Ray forever… I just am not sure that Edebali has locked up the injury replacement job so convincingly.
Who do you think his competition would be? Walker, Dora or someone else?
Still up for grabs, IMO. Walker didn’t show me anything last night, and I’ve never been as high on Dora as some here have been.
I’m telling you guys: run defense is still going to be a problem, and the pass rush isn’t going to be able to match last year’s.
Exactly, still up for grabs. But Klis was definitive in giving the job to Edebali. Who didn’t look all that stellar last night.
Agree about run defense.
Klis has been pretty accurate about a lot of stuff this summer, IMO.
This sounds like a concession speech following an election.
He shouldn’t personalize it so much, but media figures get lashed to their bold predictions and often struggle to gracefully extricate.
Personally, I think Trevor is more than serviceable with this supporting cast and progress from Paxton, even glacially attained, is a positive thing.
Except that I wish I could agree with Lanmey that he’s showing progress. I thought he looked better last year.
Just sucks when we’re dealing with “serviceable” or “more than serviceable” or similar at the team’s most important position.
Not when we’re paying him in bus tokens.
I’d rather pay more for a better QB!
There are plenty who are paying way more for a slightly better QB. Now, if a valuable prospect falls into our lap, great, but I wouldn’t just count on it.
Not that I’d complain if we brought Kaepernick in.
He may be helping Elway gracefully pull away from his chosen QB.
Allbright’s got an interesting Twitter poll out… Siemian and a 2nd for Tyron Taylor? His vote is hands down yes from Denver’s perspective. Thoughts here? I’d be inclined to do that as well. Wonder if instead of the 2nd rd. draft pick Buffalo would take Gotsis though?!
I think straight up, given their respective contracts, might be worthy of consideration, but Tyrod’s probably never going to be a top ten QB, either.
Siemian AND a second round draft selection? Next.
Yes, AND. Taylor has been damn good the last two seasons… have a look at the stats: 63% comp., 6200 yds., 37 TD, 12 INT, plus 1200 yds. rushing and another 10 TD on the ground. Missed 3 games to injury in that span with Bills.
He’ll miss some more helming a run heavy Rick Dennison offense.
Under the assumption that Taylor will just be a plug-and-play option here in a different offense after not being here almost the entire offseason and training camp. Taylor has also played behind a much better offensive line the past two seasons in Buffalo. Is Taylor even on the market?
PFF seems pretty high on the Bills line.
Agreed the rushing stats are impressive, but the passing stats aren’t otherworldly. I know it’s not exactly apples to apples but most around here would agree that TS had an ‘OK’ season last year, so it’s fair to think he could duplicate his ‘OK’ season. If so, that would give him 2 year stats of 59.5%, 6802 yds, 36 TD’s and 20 INT’s, Not quite at Taylor’s level but not that far off. Certainly not a whole 2nd rounder off. It could be argued that we really suck at drafting in the 2nd round but I think I’d still keep TS and a 2nd over TT.
Not saying he’d be my first choice via trade, it was raised on Allbright’s Twitter feed so brought it here. Interesting though because I wasn’t overly excited (with his potential as a starter) when Denver had been rumored as a landing spot when he was a FA but he has been very good the last two yrs. in Buffalo.
Oh, Stephen, you lovable loser!
August 11, 2017
He posted that five minutes after the Bills’ official tweet.
I’m sure that thing reeks of drunken tailgates and fingerblasted Buffalo skanks, but it was a funny tweet.
Well, he probably has something to burn at the next Bills’ tailgate party. I’m sure we’ll see a YouTube video that Deadspin will mock.
Howard was alright. He was calling the Champ by his chosen name when assholes like Dick Young were still referring to him as Clay in the sports pages.
You will all refer to me by the name… Betty – villian formerly known as Master Pain
My name is…
Shake Zula, the mic rulah, the old schoolah
You wanna trip, I’ll bring it to ya
Good to know teams themselves can be as irrational as us fans.
Who are you calling irrational?! Anyways…Both Pax and Trev suck ass, and I think we should kick the tires on Tebow again. He did “Tebow” the Steelers out of the playoffs, you know?! #AllHeDoesIsWin
It occurred to me that VJ is playing the politic game with the fans. A lot of people are saying Siemien should be the starter, but a lot are saying Paxton should get a shot with the 1st team, which is what he’ll get next week supposedly.
It’s a damned if you do, damned if you don’t. If we dont’ succeed either way, he’ll be second guessed. I think by giving Lynch the 1st team against the 49ers, and knowing he probably won’t perform up to expectations, he’ll give more fodder to the Siemien train and quiet the Paxton Lynchmob.
If and when the offense struggles throughout the season, I think there’ll be less background noise to start Paxton over Siemien.
Good points. The vast majority of our fan base is insatiable regardless.
I understand the reasons why Lynch will get the start in Week 2, but if he does not improve, we do need to move forward with Siemian as the starter. As I mentioned in the writeup I just posted, it’s easier to replace Siemian with Lynch during the season if he struggles than to do it the other way around.
I think back to Elway’s rookie season, how he opened the season as the starter, got benched and Steve DeBerg took over, and how today’s media environment would react to that. Granted, Elway was better than Lynch, but today’s media environment would have thrown Elway under the bus and I wonder how well he would have handled it — especially when today’s media environment would mean the Denver media circus at the time would have been almost insufferable.
All these guys have it tougher now from a media standpoint. Elway never had to deal with stuff like #WhyCantJohnnyReadDefenses after a crap game.
No, he just had to explain why he gave out crappy Holloween candy.
Totally agree. We can be pretty certain Lynch will go in at some point due to the likelihood of Trevor getting hurt. Don’t know if he’s ever played a full season.
IMO, both of these guys are leaving the door open for Kelly or even possibly Sloter next year.
There was a discussion about ways to watch games over the air for free recently, and unfortunately for me, I live in a rural part of Colorado that has zero reception due to the god damn mountains. If you are in Colorado and are afflicted by tall ass mountain syndrome, then Dish Network offers a “local channel only” package that you can turn off as soon as football season is over without any penalties. You can turn it on the following season without any additional fees. You do have to pay for the equipment and install (mine was over $200 total, I bought the cheapest HD receiver they offered), but then its only $20 a month when its active. I have been doing this for the past 4 seasons and have been happy with it, with the exception that the technical support is ROUGH if you have any problems, and the fact that I have been charged an extra month after I switched off my service, twice. Way cheaper and better picture quality than any other option I have ever found here in the boonies. I don’t think this is something that Dish advertises, I just called them and found out about it. Hope that helps some of yall.
Not watching the Giants game very closely but it looks like they have some O-line problems as well from what I’m seeing. If Bolles turns out good they may be wishing they traded up.
PFF on the game. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/pro-refocused-denver-broncos-24-chicago-bears-17
Games this evening if anyone is interested.
Anyone notice the 4th down play call disagreement between VJ and McCoy referenced in the story linked below?
Maybe McCoy had something more creative than a handoff straight straight up the gut. So dumb to call a TO then run the most obvious play possible.
I doubt it, since he called that three times last game.
To be fair, most offensive play calls in preseason play are very vanilla.
No. I noticed that Lynch didn’t have the offense set and the playclock ran out before the snap which is probably why the timeout was called, though.
The snap has actually just started here. Maybe they could have gotten away with it, but it’s obviously a delay of game. Take the timeout and save the 4th and 1, since they aren’t going to try a 4th and 6. In the 15-20 seconds before the timeout, VJ is just pacing the sideline by himself — and the cameras also show him when there’s 33 seconds left on the playclock, and I don’t see him talking with McCoy. The huddle breaks with 17 seconds left on the playclock, the offense is set with 10 seconds left, and Latimer is put in motion, re-setting with 5 seconds left. At this point, Lynch does an audible (per Griese), and he waves Derby back to the offset fullback position he’s lined up in here, and he re-sets with 1 second left on the playclock. By this point, both VJ and McCoy are running to the linesman to call timeout. The ball is then snapped. They talk after the timeout is called, but that’s the first I see of it.
Chiefs offense just tore up the Niners. If the Broncos don’t do the same next week there may be some concern on two fronts.
I just don’t think Denver’s offense is nearly as good believe it or not… starting with coaching, then QB.
Conley’s playing well.
Even if it happens that way, I wouldn’t read too much into it.
What was that we heard all offseason about how these coaches were magically going to turn these guys on the offensive line into competent players?
Can we get our center back before we start deciding who is incompetent on the line?
Well we’ve seen Watson be poor and rarely healthy on a good o line in Oakland, right?
I think what the Broncos saw was a young linemen with good tools who showed a lot of positives in 2014. He tore an Achilles and missed the entire next season. I’m guessing the Broncos thinking was he was playing his way back into shape last year and retains a lot of potential.
I guess we could have outbid everybody for Wagner, along with that better more expensive quarterback you want, but that leaves us holes @ ILB and WR2 now because I’m pretty sure Sanders and Marshall aren’t sticking around for league minimum.
Not everybody understands or appreciates how El Cheapo Grande runs the team.
It’s far easier to fix when you miss on little bets, and far harder to fix when you miss on big bets.
Tell me more about this better, more expensive quarterback.
The Chiefs DL is stupid deep.
Marcus Rush is Mr August.
Link to condensed version of the game. https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-wK3UqjkAPmbE00WE5seFRQSnc/view?usp=sharing
Rewatching, narrative that Siemian is Mr Checkdown and Lynch was chucking it deep is as stupid as I thought it was. The play where Simian got 4 on 3rd and 5 is somewhere between a good defensive play, a poor route by Taylor, and a poor read by Siemian, but certainly not a horrific mistake.
Lynch had a very similar play setting up the failed 4th and one conversion. Lynch had 1 successful throw that was either medium or deep. Siemian had several.
Hey Bobby Humphrey, how do you see the Seahawks touches breaking down between Rawls, Lacy and Prosise?