• RSH
    • Royalwithcheese

      Sure, Trev.

      • PiperAR

        For a QB to become consistently great, it’s necessary for them to make two leaps forward. The first leap is when the game starts to “slow down”. This happened for TS as he said late last season. The second leap is to understand the offense and be able to bring it onto the field. (Knowing the playbook in meetings isn’t good enough if the DE on the other side of the ball gets into the QB’s head.)

        Many QB’s are never able to make the first leap. Those that do but never make the second leap become career backups. Those who believe TS has the ceiling of a backup are mistaken for this reason.

      • Royalwithcheese

        “Suddenly, it just happened. It was like I was seeing the matrix. There they were: Every dink. All the dunks. Check down after check down. It was beautiful.”

        • PiperAR

          Someone, Grizzly I think, posted some advanced QB stats several weeks ago. One of the stats, while I forget the name, was a measure of average distance past the line of scrimmage the intended receiver was. Cam Newton and BenRoth were at the top with around 11 yards per attempt. Alex Smith was averaging 7.5 yards per attempt. Most QBs fell between 9 and 10. TS was right in the bell curve with 9.5 per attempt.

          The myth of Trevor Dink and Dunk, Captain Checkdown Jr, or whatever, is unsupported by facts.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Context is important there, though. I’d bet the Broncos had more third-and-longs than most teams, and they were poor at converting them. Doesn’t matter if you throw 10 yards downfield if you need 13.

          • Jeremy

            And I think a distribution is much more insightful than an average.

            The flip side is I think narratives of guys being “check down” guys take off with little basis and then live on forever.

          • PiperAR

            Distribution gives more insight than simple mean, yes. I’d think 14 games worth of attempts would smooth the mean out, as opposed to 6 kickoff returns for 1 TD and five short of the 20.

          • PiperAR

            Context is important. True. But did it because forced to is still did it. That TS won’t go down field is false.

            Doesn’t matter if you throw 10 yards if you need 13. Not necessarily. The receiver could pick up 3 YAC. Completing yards short of the first down improves field position or may make the difference for FG range.

          • The real way to put the context into it is this: Did he have a clean pocket when he made the throw or did the protection break down too quickly?

            It is true that Siemian has issues with his play, but some of his decisions may have came because the offensive line didn’t do its job well and forced Siemian into a situation in which he figured that gaining 10 yards on third and 13 is better than no yards or losing yards.

          • and… if the running game was improved, Broncos would have fewer 3rd and longs, which would translate to more first downs, which means more extended drives. And, as @disqus_arnRkJrA6t:disqus says, a clean pocket would help a lot too. I think that an improved OL will pay massive dividends.

          • Yahmule

            And quarterbacks who don’t throw downfield late in games catch hell, too. Even Aaron Rodgers has caught flak over this as his fourth quarter interception rate is minuscule, but he is risk averse to fault at times. If a first ballot Hall of Famer gets this stuff (which comes with the position) than a guy like Smith will get even more.

            http://host.madison.com/ct/news/local/writers/todd-milewski/fivethirtyeight-com-data-suggest-aaron-rodgers-is-too-conservative-when/article_dc6547ac-55a2-11e4-897f-475dc9bce1a6.html

          • GrizzlyB

            That was probably me. I’ve been maintaining a big ol’ notepad filled with various stats (mostly passing ones). They were:

            starters’ intended air yards (IAY) [how far past the LOS the pass was aimed]
            (1. Paxton Lynch – 11.5)
            1. Cam Newton – 11.2
            2. Jameis Winston – 10.8
            3. Carson Palmer – 10.3
            4. Tyrod Taylor – 10.2
            5. Marcus Mariota – 10.1
            6. Ryan Fitzpatrick – 10.0
            7. Ben Roethlisberger – 9.9
            8. Brock Osweiler – 9.7
            9. Kirk Cousins – 9.6
            10. Russell Wilson – 9.6
            11. Trevor Siemian – 9.5
            12. Aaron Rodgers – 9.4
            13. Matt Ryan – 9.3
            14. Andrew Luck – 9.1
            15. Blake Bortles – 9.1
            16. Dak Prescott – 9.0
            17. Philip Rivers – 9.0
            18. Andy Dalton – 8.8
            19. Colin Kaepernick – 8.8
            20. Case Keenum – 8.8
            21. Derek Carr – 8.7
            22. Tom Brady – 8.6
            23. Eli Manning – 8.6
            24. Carson Wentz – 8.5
            25. Ryan Tannehill – 8.4
            26. Matthew Stafford – 8.3
            27. Joe Flacco – 8.1
            28. Drew Brees – 8.0
            29. Alex Smith – 7.5
            30. Sam Bradford – 7.1

            starters’ average air yards differential (AYD) [the difference between IAY and CAY — the average of how far their average completion was, minus how far their average target was]
            1. Andrew Luck: -1.2
            2. Drew Brees: -1.3
            3. Dak Prescott: -1.5
            4. Tom Brady: -1.7
            5. Matt Ryan: -1.7
            6. Sam Bradford: -1.8
            7. Andy Dalton: -1.9
            8. Alex Smith: -1.9
            9. Kirk Cousins: -1.9
            10. Russell Wilson: -1.9
            11. Ryan Tannehill: -2.0
            12. Trevor Siemian: -2.0
            13. Philip Rivers: -2.0
            14. Marcus Mariota: -2.1
            15. Case Keenum: -2.1
            16. Matthew Stafford: -2.1
            17. Derek Carr: -2.3
            18. Carson Wentz: -2.4
            19. Joe Flacco: -2.5
            20. Tyrod Taylor: -2.6
            21. Colin Kaepernick: -2.6
            22. Cam Newton: -2.6
            23. Ryan Fitzpatrick: -2.6
            24. Eli Manning: -2.7
            25. Jameis Winston: -2.7
            26. Carson Palmer: -2.8
            27. Ben Roethlisberger: -2.9
            28. Aaron Rodgers: -2.9
            29. Blake Bortles: -2.9
            30. Brock Osweiler: -3.1
            (31+. Paxton Lynch: -4.3)

            This one I came up with. It’s just their IAY/AYD ratio. I did it because, while AYD looked like a good measurement of efficiency, it tended to decrease more the further downfield a QB threw… this ratio was basically a way to take Smith and Bradford out of the top AYD, because they threw so short that it would naturally be greater than a Newton or a Roethlisberger almost no matter what. Since Lynch’s number wasn’t totally off the reservation like it is for the other stats, I also put Goff in this one as a reference:

            IAY/AYD ratio
            1. Andrew Luck: 7.58
            2. Drew Brees: 6.15
            3. Dak Prescott: 6.00
            4. Matt Ryan: 5.47
            5. Tom Brady: 5.06
            6. Kirk Cousins: 5.05
            7. Russell Wilson: 5.05
            8. Marcus Mariota: 4.81
            9. Trevor Siemian: 4.75
            10. Andy Dalton: 4.63
            11. Philip Rivers: 4.50
            12. Cam Newton: 4.31
            13. Ryan Tannehill: 4.20
            14. Case Keenum: 4.19
            15. Jameis Winston: 4.00
            16. Alex Smith: 3.95
            17. Matthew Stafford: 3.95
            18. Sam Bradford: 3.94
            19. Tyrod Taylor: 3.92
            20. Ryan Fitzpatrick: 3.85
            21. Derek Carr: 3.78
            22. Carson Palmer: 3.68
            23. Carson Wentz: 3.54
            24. Ben Roethlisberger: 3.41
            25. Colin Kaepernick: 3.38
            (26. Jared Goff: 3.29)
            26. Joe Flacco: 3.24
            27. Aaron Rodgers: 3.24
            28. Eli Manning: 3.19
            29. Blake Bortles: 3.14
            30. Brock Osweiler: 3.13
            (32. Paxton Lynch: 2.68)

            And to SterlingMalloryArcher’s dissidence, here’s the AYTS [average distance of pass relative to the line to gain on 3rd down (it doesn’t mention 4th) — raw yardage, not like FO’s ALEX, which uses expected yards and where Siemian ranked 19th]

            (1. Paxton Lynch: probably – I don’t know how many 3rd down attempts he had in each game, but the 3 values were 5.8, -0.8, and 4.5, so he probably topped Newton’s 2)
            1. Cam Newton: 2
            2. Jameis Winston: 1.4
            3. Ryan Fitzpatrick: 1.3
            4. Ben Roethlisberger: 1.2
            5. Marcus Mariota: 1.1
            6. Tyrod Taylor: 1.1
            7. Carson Palmer: 1.0
            8. Brock Osweiler: 1.0
            9. Aaron Rodgers: 1.0
            10. Kirk Cousins: 0.9
            11. Trevor Siemian: 0.5
            12. Blake Bortles: 0.5
            13. Russell Wilson: 0.3
            14. Andrew Luck: 0.2
            15. Philip Rivers: 0.2
            16. Matt Ryan: 0.1
            17. Case Keenum: 0.1
            18. Eli Manning: 0.0
            19. Tom Brady: 0.0
            20. Dak Prescott: -0.1
            21. Andy Dalton: -0.1
            22. Matthew Stafford: -0.4
            23. Derek Carr: -0.4
            24. Carson Wentz: -0.5
            25. Ryan Tannehill: -0.6
            26. Colin Kaepernick: -0.6
            27. Drew Brees: -0.6
            28. Joe Flacco: -0.9
            29. Alex Smith: -1.2
            30. Sam Bradford: -1.7

            Also, NFL’s website went through a recent redesign, so I was able to find the link for these: https://nextgenstats.nfl.com/stats/passing#yards

          • Paco Alonzo

            On the 1st set of stats does that take into account designed short passes like screens?

          • GrizzlyB

            Partially — it’s recorded as zero (even if it was actually behind the LOS).

            I tend to think that, if there’s an excuse why Siemian’s IAY is higher than people expect, it’s because we used so few screens.

          • PiperAR

            Flacco sure looks bad by these stats. IAY much lower than I expected. AYD higher than a QB with a lower IYA ought have. And throwing almost a yard short of the sticks on 3rd.

        • Paco Alonzo

          Sounds like he took the fluorescent pill.

    • PiperAR

      This. Understanding the offensive concepts is going to help TS both pre-snap and during the play. TS is ready to take a great leap forward.

      Or, roll with Lynch’s rocket arm to huck the ball down field. Whatever.

      • GrizzlyB

        Rocket arm… and elite athleticism. I was just watching some film from the past season, and he tried to scramble on 3rd and long multiple times. Do you know what that tells me? It tells me that he’s got the ability and the confidence to lead this franchise into the next millennium!

        • RyanHennigan

          Wednesday, December 31, 3000 Broncos here we come!!

  • RSH
  • Nick

    This is not good news for Le’Veon Bell.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/895274762913554432

  • Sparks

    Is it Thursday yet?

  • diningerj
    • Nick

      Just remember that the Broncos stopped their chances at three more, including a chance at four in a row.

    • DCJ1

      JUST IN: Dolphins, Jets, and Bills become first NFL teams to violate UN arms agreements by attempting to purchase SAM batteries.

    • Jeremy

      “These planes, depending on miles flown and condition, generally cost between $5 million and $65 million. A source said the
      planes the Patriots bought are extended range, which allows the planes to fly nonstop for about 12 hours. A brand-new plane could cost $200 million.”

      That’s quite the range, but I’m surprised they depreciate so much

      • PiperAR

        Do the Pats play in London soon? NY to SF is what, six hours? Seems like overkill.

        • Jeremy

          Boston to London is a six hour flight, which probably means only 5 hours in the air. Boston to LA is slightly shorter.

    • Yahmule

      I will get aboard that plane some day and I’m gonna leave an upper decker in the lavatory.

      • gobroncos

        How you gonna get it in there? These lavatories don’t have “upper decks.” Or will you just leave it in the sink? That would also be acceptable. Maybe smear it around a bit. Especially on the handle so you HAVE to get some on you just to get out. (make sure you take all the TP and napkins with you on the way out.).

  • GrizzlyB

    The Fan with a hot rumor:

    https://twitter.com/1043TheFan/status/895284271954485248

    FWIW, Clough claims that this is coming from Bengals sources, for whatever reason.

      • In case 100% wasn’t false enough. It looks like neither Siemian nor Lynch is going to be a good let alone great NFL QB, but highly doubtful McCarron will be either, so this rumor makes little sense. A couple weeks ago PFF was pretty critical of Elway’s draft record… moving up to select Lynch isn’t helping that perception… if he isn’t able to decidedly beat out Siemian, it’s probably time to start talking about options for 2018, ha.

        • Jeremy

          What makes you think McCarron won’t be good?

          And as I’ve tried to highlight on this board, finding a quality QB is really really hard. If 1 out of 4 of your early draft picks works out you are substantially above average. Elway has tried 2 so far.

        • PiperAR

          PFF’s draft grading system is flawed. Neither Roby or Ray were bad picks, but because Ray was behind Ware (free agent signing) and Roby is the #3 CB (the starters being a free agent signing and an undrafted free agent). CB and pass rusher are strong position groups. But OFF’s draft grading system is going to undervalue the Ray and Roby picks. Same with QB. PFF rewards Dallas because Prescott played. If Romo played last year and another year or two, PFF doesn’t rank Dallas #1. Even if Presscott becomes a starter in 2018 and had a twelve year career at the Pro Bowl level.

          The value of the PFF draft grades is like the depth chart that just came out. Interesting to read in the can, but ultimately worth the same as what you wipe the bum with.

      • 150%? that’s almost so false it comes back around to being true.

      • Nick

        My two favorite Bengals reports, Paul Dehner and Kat Terrell, both retweeted this in their feeds. I also haven’t seen any of the national reporters like Schefter or Rapoport say anything yet, and Florio threw some ice on the idea.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Lolol! That’s not how math works.

        • Nick
          • Yahmule

            This is incontestable, but what a pro athlete considers to be giving 100% is probably much closer to actually that than when the typical weekend athlete believes he’s giving 100%.

        • Yahmule

          Mike Trout collected his 1000th career hit on his 26th birthday. At this pace, he’ll have 2000 by the time he’s 52!

    • RSH
      • Nick

        Why did you have to say “fake news”, John? I could have been fine with just a simple “Sad!”

        • Jeremy

          I’m curious how that term will continue to evolve over the coming years and decades.

        • Yahmule

          The words fake news, like liberal media, are self administered gullibility litmus tests.

          • ohiobronco

            Why do you hate freedom so much?

      • gobroncos

        Oh, John. Please don’t stoop to Drumpf’s level.

        Normally I would take this as funny sarcasm, but I know Elway is quite right leaning and was a Drumpf supporter and so I think this is said with some seriousness.

        Sad!

    • Jeremy

      If this were true, I’m guessing Cincinnati will want more than a 3rd, since I’m guessing that is what they’ll get in comp picks. So maybe a third and a fourth

      • Jeremy

        McCarron wants to be an unrestricted free agent in 2018, but the Bengals believe he should be a restricted free agent after only being active for five games in 2014, his rookie year. According to Bengals.com,
        the case is in arbitration and thereโ€™s not expected to be a decision
        until January 2018. That will make it nearly impossible for McCarron to
        be traded, as his status for next season is up in the air.

        I wasn’t aware of this. Complicates things a little. Nick, do you know anything?

        • GrizzlyB

          I was going to point that out, too, since I saw Cecil Lammey mention it. It kinda explains why there’s been such a firestorm around McCarron, since he obviously wants out desperately, and it’s probably because of that.

          Checking Wikipedia, it sounded like they put him on NFI in August for shoulder soreness, but kept him on there until December. I don’t remember him having major injury concerns coming into the draft (NFLDraftScout doesn’t have him flagged, either), so it easily could have been a skeevy move on the Bengals’ part.

          • Nick

            Yeah, that appears to be the Bengals’ claim. My guess is that if the Bengals did something skeevy, McCarron allowed it to happen at the time when he was no lock to make the roster to begin with. I’m doubtful that McCarron will be able to win this one if that’s the case. Definitely throws a wrench into any of these rumors.

            On a related note, this is why I keep banging the drum that Chad Kelly needs to be fully aware as to how the Broncos intend to handle his roster status this year, as he could end up in the same boat as McCarron if he’s not careful.

        • Nick

          On my bike and thus on my phone right now. I’ll have more to say in a bit on this.

          • Holzy

            Watch out for idiots; especially the idiots that think people that ride bikes are idiots.

        • ohiobronco

          Here is some more detail: http://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/nfl/bengals/2017/02/08/clearing-up-aj-mccarrons-cincinnati-bengals-contract-status/97642562/

          Interesting and the ruling could potentially affect Butt and Kelly.

          • Nick

            As I just said to GrizzlyB below, this is why I keep saying the Broncos need to be prepared to carry Kelly on the roster, in case Kelly thinks he’s healthy and wants to get a chance to play now, of which includes earning that critical accrued season.

          • ohiobronco

            I think the Broncos have a strong case that his NFI status is legitimate, considering his ACL was less than a year ago and there was additional damage beyond the ACL.

          • Nick

            It’s legitimate for now, but all he needs to do is be able to pass a physical to get off it. Kelly had ACL surgery November 15, 2016, and November 26, 2017 would be the deadline for him to accrue a season, that’s a little more than one year. It’s certainly my hope as a Broncos fan that Kelly accepts a redshirt season, but if I’m Kelly’s agent I’m staying aware of all avenues of what may be in the best interest of my client.

          • ohiobronco

            There’s a lot a leeway in the description of passed physical. It’s nearly impossible to prove someone is fully healthy. In any management vs. labor dispute, my default bet would be on the side of management.

      • Nick

        Exactly, a 3rd plus is the absolute floor for any McCarron trade.

    • Royalwithcheese

      So how does Sandy reply to this? Will he even mention that his “report” was shot down within minutes?

      • GrizzlyB

        Probably pull an Allbright and blame the source for lying.

    • Nick

      Not interested in McCarron at all.

      • Sparks

        I think I would rather Kaep than McCarron right now and that’s saying something.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Yeah, I don’t see him as a significant upgrade over the current options.

        • Jeremy

          So everyone seems strongly against him but no one is saying why. He looked good in 2015 in limited action (against tough competition) and hasn’t played much sense. I haven’t followed him much beyond that but seems he is at least worth considering.

          Why do others not like him so much?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I haven’t studied him, really. I’m just saying that from what I’ve seen, he’s okay. But Siemian is meh, okay, too. Verdict still out on Lynch. I just don’t see McCarron as a savior/difference maker.

          • Yahmule

            I like him, but acquiring him means probably cutting bait on Lynch or Siemian for under market value or carrying three green quarterbacks. This would also make Kelly and Sloter immediately expendable and unlikely to bring back any return at all. Just seems like undue effort and probably a waste of resources for a guy who is very comparable to Siemian already.

          • PiperAR

            Failure to see any upside.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            I like AJ. He came out and threw deep outs, with pin point accuracy against the “No Fly Zone” against man to man coverage. I couldn’t believe my eyes!

    • ElwayIsGod7

      #NoUpdykes

  • Sparks
  • Sparks

    Excited to see this kid play. The reports have been glowing and I’m hopeful he’ll be able to translate his TC performances to actual games. His work ethic appears to be off the charts though. It makes it easy to pull for a guy like this.

    http://www.denverbroncos.com/news-and-blogs/article-1/Isaiah-McKenzie-doesnt-care-if-you-call-him-small-hell-just-run-by-you/4200621b-041a-4841-b4c9-b1365cdfd521

    • JMac

      I have a little bit of a man-crush on Brock Olivo… That calm yet passionate voice make a great interview!

  • Jeremy

    I had a dream that Trevor had a season ending injury. Pessimism was off the charts.

    I think this is all a sign I’m spending too much thinking about the Broncos.

  • Jeremy

    Random Question. Has there ever been a GM who hit on multiple QB draft picks, who weren’t top 5 picks?

    • Sparks

      That’s a good question and I don’t know GM’s that much. The first group to come to mind would be the Chargers with Rivers and Brees. Rivers was a 4th overall pick so maybe that’s outside of your question, but Brees was a second rounder. They came 3 years apart so the GM might have been the same. Regardless, if there are any GM’s who have hit multiple times, it’d be a very short list.

      • GrizzlyB

        Polian did it, of course, but Peyton was #1 overall, so obviously it doesn’t count for these parameters.

        One thing that I was looking through the other day that I actually found interesting was that, of the 30 primary starting QBs last season, 17 were drafted in the 1st. But of those 17, 14 of them were top 10. Roethlisberger was 11, Flacco was 18, and Rodgers was 24. And actually, if instead of top 10, you divide the 1st round into thirds, you end up with the ranges 1-11, 12-21, and 22-32 — which would put Roethlisberger (and Cutler, who would have been a starter if not for injury, for that matter) in that top range. So you end up with 2 QBs in the 1st who weren’t drafted in the top third of the round, which isn’t any particularly better than any other round for drafting QBs, based on the current landscape (except the 5th round, which bizarrely seems to consistently come up with none).

        • Jeremy

          Polian had been outed when they drafted Luck. Or are you talking about when he was with Carolina/Buffalo?

          • GrizzlyB

            He drafted Jim Kelly as well, I thought. It looks like maybe not — I think he was there when Kelly joined the Bills, and they have a close relationship, so I guess I assumed that Polian drafted him.

          • Jeremy

            According to Wikipedia, he started with Buffalo in 1984, and didn’t become GM until 1986.

          • GrizzlyB

            Yeah, I saw that. Kelly did join the Bills in 1986, but obviously they already had his rights since 1983. People definitely talk about Polian as if it were his call, fwiw

        • Jeremy

          And I’ve been beating this drum for a while. Once you move outside the top 5 or top 10, the odds of a QB working out drop drastically. The odds of a top 5 or top 10 QB working out still aren’t high, but they are much better. #FindingQBsIsHard

          • ohiobronco

            The question is does this history reflect an scarcity of intrinsic talent that you can’t get around or is there an opportunity with better/smarter development. I do think the odds are skewed to some degree by disparity of opportunity. Trevor could have washed out of the league without ever getting a preseason snap and nobody would have batted an eye. There are guys out there that can play that never get a chance.

          • Jeremy

            That’s a fair thought. Has Lynch been given a fair shake? Seems fans here are ready to move on from him.

            The NFL certainly has a huge interest in developing QBs better. I’m guessing the value of finding a Dak vs just a guy is probably around 100 Million dollars. There certainly could be a better way to do things though.

            Yesterday you advocated drafting a new QB every year (or every other year) until you hit one, which I’m guessing isn’t great for development either.

          • ohiobronco

            I think Lynch will have had his fair shake when he gets a second offseason in the same system. You can’t draft a guy that you know needs extensive mental development then cut bait in his second season when the two seasons were under different systems.

            In the draft a new QB often scenario, you have to be careful about how you handle it. The bulk of the off-season and TC reps should go to the starter and one developmental backup. Any third guy should either be waiting his turn or not be in the long term plans. You can’t clutter the QB room or it won’t work.

          • Brian

            Don’t confuse correlation and causation (not saying you are)… teams that invest draft capital in a QB inside the top 5/10 are unlikely to give a legitimate shot to later round draft picks or UDFA’s that may be as good/better. One good indicator that opportunity is the key factor is how frequently a backup who replaces an injured starter, even for a few games or even a few quarters, then becomes a free agent acquisition and potential starter with another team or wins the job on the current team. Most of those guys are no better than replacement level, but you do get your Bradys and your Warners… the thing is, many of those top 5/10 guys aren’t better than replacement level either.

          • Jeremy

            That’s a fair point, and I’m going to look now at what percentage of late round QBs succeed, given that they start for at least a few games.

            Mid-late first round QBs, are going to be given a shot in some form though. Out of the 99 first round QB taken since the merger has started at least 4games, (exceptions were Jim Druckenmiller and Rich Campbell). Only 6 failed to reach 8 starts. A few may have been given up on too soon, but they all got there shot.

          • Yahmule

            You would have to go back to the Detroit auto show in 1999, when Pontiac revealed the Aztek, the concept car that would eventually sink an 84 year old company, to find an unveiling as reviled as the 49ers selection of Jim Druckenmiller in the first round. The first thing Bill Walsh did when he returned to San Francisco was send that guy packing.

          • Yahmule

            Another factor concerning quarterbacks, although I’m not sure how it should be calculated, is how overrated they typically are on draft day. Much riskier QB prospects wind up going top five than at probably all other positions combined.

            https://www.gannett-cdn.com/-mm-/725392da189ef4243c3b9affd2b82328966f2343/c=625-560-3878-3006&r=x404&c=534×401/local/-/media/2017/04/27/USATODAY/USATODAY/636289227510076559-USP-NFL-2017-NFL-DRAFT-90528040-1-.JPG

      • Nick

        Different GMs. John Butler drafted Brees, AJ Smith drafted Rivers.

        • Sparks

          I thought they might have been different. Researching it, though, I see Rivers wasn’t drafted by the Chargers at all. The Chargers drafted Eli and then promptly traded him to the Giants, who had drafted Rivers. So I wasn’t close at all. ๐Ÿ™‚

          • Nick

            Well yeah, but in all practicality we know who really wanted who, though.

          • Sparks

            Yes, or more importantly who didn’t want to play for the Chargers.

          • Nick

            Sadly, Eli Manning is 0-3 against the Chargers in his career thus far. I hope he lights them up this year, he can’t have a goose egg in his career on that team.

          • PiperAR

            Ring count is Eli 2, Chargers 0.

          • Nick
          • Steven_Searls

            Clearly, a leader of men.

          • Yahmule

            I like the relationship all the Manning brothers have with each other. Archie and Olivia did a good job with those boys.

          • Yahmule

            My theory on Eli Manning is he has been a replacement level quarterback since 2013.

            https://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2016/07/obj.gif?w=1000

          • Jeremy

            This is probably true. Last year he ranked 20th in DVOA, one spot above Siemian. Year before Eli ranked 19th.

    • ohiobronco

      How about an UDFA who becomes a multiple pro bowler and a 4th rounder who turns into a quality starter (if Prescott keeps it up).

    • Jungy Brungen

      Elway might have with basically bottom 5 picks (think Trevor was bottom 7).

      • Royalwithcheese

        You meant Trevor and Kelly? I think the jury is still out on that. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Jungy Brungen

          That’s why I said “might have” lol

      • ohiobronco

        If Kelly and Sloter became pro bowlers that would be a Mr. Irrelevant and an UDFA. At that point they would need to give Elway a second bust in Canton.

    • Yahmule

      The best QB drafting GM was probably Hall of Famer Ron Wolf.

      1968 – Ken Stabler – 2nd round, 52nd pick
      1987 – Steve Beuerlein – 4/110
      1993 – Mark Brunell – 5/118
      1998 – Matt Hasselbeck – 6/187

      And the big one. Wolf wanted Brett Favre in 1991, but he was advising the Jets that year and they didn’t have a first round pick. Atlanta picked Brett Favre with the 33rd pick and Wolf made the awful selection of Browning Nagle the following year. But Wold kept tabs on Favre, who had more in common with Johnny Manziel than Johnny Unitas as a rookie . Wolf didn’t care. He traded Atlanta the 19th pick in the 1992 Draft for Favre.

      Five quarterbacks who started over 100 games.
      Two Hall of Famers.
      Four MVP seasons.
      Four All Pros
      21 Pro Bowls

      • Nick

        Wolf also claims that he fucked up in not taking Marino for the Raiders in 1983. That would have royally sucked.

        • Yahmule

          Nightmare fuel. That ’83 Raider team won the Super Bowl and was stacked. They also wasted a ton of resources searching for a quarterback in subsequent seasons, such as trading away stolen All Pro LT Jim Lachey for Jay “The Human Forehead” Schroeder.

    • Carsonic

      Random Answer (courtesy of randomwordgenerator.com/sentence): “Abstraction is often one floor above you.”

  • Sparks

    For the bicycle enthusiasts, the Velorama Colorado – Colorado Classic race will be held over the next 4 days. Tomorrow is the start in Colorado Springs, followed by a day in Breckenridge and the final 2 days are in Denver. The Colorado Springs race literally will start and finish right outside my office window. Should be some exciting stuff.

    https://www.veloramacolorado.com/colorado-classic/routes/

    • ohiobronco

      I went to Colorado Springs in the mid 90s to watch a race on the Garden of the Gods circuit. That year the World Championships were in South America and a lot of pro teams came to this race to race at altitude. Miguel Indurain was there with his Banesto team and Lance Armstrong was there in his Motorola days. One of Indurain’s teammates won the race and Indurain was second so they were both on the podium together. My friend snuck back and got the big ceremonial campaign bottle after they were done with it. We drank the rest of it on the ride back to Boulder hoping the Indurain backwash would give us super cycling strength. It did not.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      It has been bad on the offensive side of the ball. Much better on defense, though. And I don’t think it’s fair to include Orlando Franklin on that list. He was a solid contributor throughout the duration of his rookie deal.

      • Agreed, Franklin had a few good years. And defense has been mostly good. But offensive picks in early rounds just awful, but not new news to this group…

        • Nick

          And Hillman was OK. Not great, but he served out his whole rookie contract and had notable contribution. You’d want a little more from a 3rd rounder but he wasn’t a flat out bust.

          • Hillman was a guy that should have been a 6th or 7th rd. pick.

        • GrizzlyB

          Been sniffing around a few Bears’ message boards the past couple days in advance of our preseason game, and I got a good laugh when I saw that Kevin White has only 19 receptions in two years. Then I realized that Latimer has 3 fewer than that in one more year. White was #7 overall and therefore the bigger bust, clearly, but we gave up a 4th and 5th to move up 7 spots from #63 to get Latimer at #56 (plus another 7th back), but the two WRs picked after him (at #61 and our original #63) are both Pro Bowlers.

          • Landry is one, who is the other?

          • Nick

            Allen Robinson.

          • GrizzlyB

            Allen Robinson. Kind of fringe as a Pro Bowler, but he’s averaging close to 1000 yards/season.

          • A Pro Bowler like Siemian was a Pro Bowler last year, ha… don’t argue with Klis on that.

          • Nick

            I thought he was incredibly overrated coming out of Penn State, but then I forgot that Christian Hackenberg was his QB.

          • GrizzlyB

            That’ll do ya. (I mean, half his yards and 2/3rds of his TDs were in his Pro Bowl season of 2015, when the Jaguars got so hilariously out of games that they were able to put up serious garbage time passing numbers, but I think it’s fair to say that he’s better than Latimer. Not to mention, Landry was the one taken with our original pick)

            Seriously, though, I still don’t understand… well, any reason Hackenberg was ever considered a draftable QB.

    • Jeremy

      His 4-7 picks have been pretty good though, but definitely not good enough to make up for his early round struggles

      http://pfref.com/tiny/iQxp7

  • Yahmule

    This is eerie and pretty awesome.

    August 8, 2017

  • gobroncos

    Father in law directed me to this website for Broncos radio, 24-7

    https://www.iheart.com/live/orange-and-blue-760-381/

  • Nick

    Not sure if anyone’s talked about who’s being held out of the Bears game. One of my Twitter follows put together this list on Reddit:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/DenverBroncos/comments/6sebjx/broncos_training_camp_day_11_discussion_thread/

    Most of these aren’t any surprise. Here’s more on Davis and Ward, and also that Charles won’t play.

    http://broncoswire.usatoday.com/2017/08/09/denver-broncos-news-todd-davis-wont-play-first-preseason/

  • Jeremy

    My friend from 5280sportsnetwork made this point.

    https://twitter.com/DerekinDenver/status/895309083808497665

    • gobroncos

      Knew or guessed?

    • Royalwithcheese

      So did SMA. Or was it Rhett?

      • Jeremy

        Rhett I think advocated firing him (correct me if I’m wrong). SMA said to can the offensive staff mid-season and removing Kubiak’s play calling duties.

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          I actually think that Rhett called it.

          • Yahmule

            I’m trying to Candyman Rhett back right now.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            Just say “Rhett was right” 3 times.

          • Yahmule

            The problem with telling him was right about something is then he’ll start thinking he was right about other stuff, too. It’s a slippery slope, Bobby.

          • Yahmule

            But he should come back. He’s probably the best kind of contrarian.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            He was like a teacher, or a counselor of sorts. I’m not sure if he really cared about what my views on the Broncos were as much as he cared about the deep rooted reason why I felt that way. Does that make sense?

          • Yahmule

            Yeah. Discerning a person’s motivations is one of the best ways to predict or understand their behavior.

          • Alaskan

            He certainly could take a punch gracefully.
            I still haven’t forgotten when Laces said he’d named his asshole scrubber after Rhett.
            Rhett’s sole reply was “Stay classy San Diego”.

          • Yahmule

            I had no idea people designated specific utensils for that, but it kind of makes sense.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            Nice! You gotta love a guy who knows how to take the high road on the internet!

          • Holzy

            Wait…there’s a specific tool for scrubbing assholes?

          • Snatch Mouth

            He hit a nerve in his Manning hate season long tirade for me…had much more respect for him as he ate crow, sort of, on the SB win and his grace in receiving that audacious honor

          • Alaskan

            I understand. It wore on me too.
            But then we all got to enjoy SB 50.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          I think Rhett did say he might retire due to health concerns. And I definitely advocated for dumping the offensive staff. I still think that may have had something to do with Kubiak’s decision to retire – that Elway said we won’t be keeping your staff.

          • Yahmule

            Coincidentally, Kubiak predicted Rhett would retire from this board. Also, Kubiak has a secretary named Rhett and Rhett has a secretary named Kubiak.

        • GrizzlyB

          No, Rhett was all about it being his health. Maybe he simultaneously believed that it would be nothing more than a front to sack him, but he only ever talked about it from a health angle, from what I remember (and I like to think I remember right because I agreed with him).

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      That’s some hard-hitting reporting, Sandy. Don’t you love when the local media, whose job it is to inform the fans, keeps secrets from the fans?

  • Yahmule

    Bill are in the bucket on why their team sucks. Their team history is pretty crazy. Two periods at or near the peak alternating with yawning chasms of despair.

    https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/buf/

  • Nick

    Going to be switching between the Red Sox game and Texans/Panthers tonight. So far, Tom Savage has looked terrible, and McCaffrey had a nice 12 yard run.

    • GrizzlyB

      Just tuned in to Texans/Panthers and am watching from the beginning. Savage held the ball way too damn long on his first two dropbacks, but the announcer was like, “We can’t have pressure like that!”

      To be fair, their color guy is a noted dope. Apparently he compares most football actions to smoke going through a keyhole.

      • Yahmule

        Paranoia is a common side effect, dude. That rolled up towel we put against the bottom of the door will be fine.

      • Kyle Milligan

        Was it chester pitt?

        • GrizzlyB

          Spencer Tillman, I think.

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Watson looks comfortable.

      CMC w/o many lanes, but doing a good job falling forward.

  • Andrew

    You have to respect Joe Webb! Guy is playing special teams and 3rd team QB. That was a nice TD toss he had.

  • Royalwithcheese
    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Huh.

      • GrizzlyB

        Look, if you read the replies to the tweet I posted, he CLEARLY says that he can’t get into it because of reasons, ok?

    • GrizzlyB
      • Royalwithcheese

        Well, maybe that has happened. We’ll know by this time tomorrow, but most people with a front row seat say TS is far ahead.

  • Jeremy
    • GrizzlyB

      “Shipmate”… I like that. I may start using it.

      Speaking of people leaving, I’m pretty sure drewthorn packed up his shit and left. I dunno if anybody knows anything about that, though.

      • Jeremy

        Unfortunately we’ve lost several over the past year or so.

        • Alaskan

          I think Drew will be back.
          He hasn’t been missing that long and may just be busy having a life.

          • GrizzlyB

            Well, I’m not exactly sure how Disqus functions, but the reason I said he “packed up his shit” is because his account appears to have been deleted — I was perusing a few old threads recently, and I noticed a number of posts that were in the discussion (i.e. replied to and whatnot), and at least some of them were definitely his. Also, his name isn’t anywhere in the top commenters on the main Disqus site.

          • Alaskan

            Well, it will be a loss if we don’t see him again.

          • Carsonic

            Damn, that is unfortunate.

    • FarAwayBroncoFan

      Love the contrarian views. Have to admit I don’t at all agree with pretty much any of them! But I think that is what you intended…

  • Yahmule