• bradley
    • Royalwithcheese

      Wow, so Bolles is part of the problem. Awesome.

      • Yahmule

        Why is anybody surprised by this? The hype train for Bolles did nothing but talk about how he was going to come in here with his badass attitude and bully a bunch of grown men.

        • Royalwithcheese

          I’ll admit that I’m surprised. He might have an attitude, but I at least thought he would be a hard worker.

          • RSH

            I think Bolles is a hard worker; he just may not be as teachable and willing to accept criticism as we had hoped.

          • Carsonic

            If he can’t be humble enough to learn from the vets and coaches, he’s going to be a major disappointment. Conversely, if he gets that attitude fixed, I think he could be an anchor on our line for quite a while.

          • RSH
          • Tyler

            Bolles was certainly a pleasant surprise. Maybe this is the first sign of him being a locker room cancer, but I doubt it.

          • cjfarls

            Yep – I think a certain level of knuckleheadedness is to be expected from rookies, and don’t think it NECESSARILY portends a difficult future. You’d love every rookie to come in like Rod Smith or CHJ, but the reality is that it often takes a year or 3 for folks to get their mind around the pro-game and life.

            What you hope is that you have enough respected vets and leaders (coaches, etc.) on the team that the knuckleheads can get a clue. Losing PM and Ware was a big blow to any team… and we had a new coach too, which just exacerbates the issue. It just happens because the follow-on players are always under the shadow of the greats they are replacing, and until they can show their own success on the field, they will never have the same respect as the HOF leaders leaving.

            So I don’t think the struggles should have been unexpected… but I also don’t know that they are unfixable, or portents for the future. CHJ, CJA, etc. are there, have had success, and the team is bringing this stuff out. We may have a new vet QB… And a little success will go a long way. The worst guys can/will be replaced.

          • Drewredux

            I certainly didn’t expect him to be flawless. I think some knuckleheadedness goes to overall football IQ, though, which doesn’t usually improve at this level. Bolles had more than a reasonable number of just situationally stupid pentalties. A fair share of those negated what passed as big plays for this offense or wiped out precsious conversions.

          • Drewredux

            I’m bouyed by all the optimism in these parts regarding Bolles, but I still see more dumpster fire than hope.

            That could just be an ego defense mechanism on my part. I don’t know. He sure still looks like an underpowered knucklehead to me.

          • Carsonic

            Fingers crossed that he has a nice, steep learning and strength training curve. My suspicioun is that he’ll get better, but settle in at B+/A-, rather than becoming truly dominant.

          • cjfarls

            He seems underpowered and a bit of knucklehead… both things we knew going in.
            But he also really showed his nice feet, wasn’t rag-dolled too often (certain exceptions obviously), and was pretty clearly the best OT on the team. As a rookie, that is hopeful. Strength can and often is added in year 2, so being underpowered in year 1 is an area we might expect improvement.

            Whether he can get better or will regress is an open question (and his attitude will play a role in that)… but knucklehead rookies are not unexpected, and non-necessarily a portent of doom. We’ll see, but if we can be optimistic about our own folks, we may as well just go home.

          • Drewredux

            He was very impressive protecting the arc, yet there is so much more to being a LT.

          • Yahmule

            His hardheaded bullshit was considered a feature instead of a bug. Never fucking ever draft an offensive lineman with a big ego. That was the lesson we probably won’t learn from this one. Quenton Nelson straight up murders people every Saturday, but you don’t see him trying to cultivate a tough guy image off the field.

          • Royalwithcheese

            Two first-round picks, two problems in the locker room. Nice job, John.

          • Yahmule

            All those dummies kept repeating the stupid idea that Ramczyk was a head case when he’s always seemed like a much more grounded kid than Garrett.

            Make thoughtful decisions about your career = head case.

            Give interviews that swing between pro wrestler bravado and how God saved your life = inspiring story.

            Gonna be a long four months.

          • G Mik

            Solid point. Hadn’t ever thought of it from that perspective but you might be on to something. It’s usually the Defensive guys with the big egos.

          • Yahmule

            Tony Mandarich was the ultimate cautionary tale. In fairness, Garrett didn’t talk one tenth of the smack Tony did before getting on the field and he played much better.

          • G Mik

            Mandarich was such a workout warrior and combine freak. He fooled all the scouts. Or enough of them.

    • Very interesting that Bolles is front and center among the rookies called out. Broncos ignored obvious warning signs and drafted him anyway… like when it was reported that several teams were blown away by how bad Lynch was on the whiteboard at the combine.

      • Drewredux

        Bolles getting knocked cartoonishly on and over his ass by Ryan Kerrigan ought to be the cover photo of the 2017 season DVD.

        It captures the whole stinking season in a nutshell.

    • Hank Mardukis

      A lot of that comes off pretty petulant for a “veteran” team. Quite unfortunate they feel they need to do this through the media as well.

      • Yahmule

        Elway invited all this with his ass-covering soft comment and his players are following suit. “Not our fault, it’s this damn lazy five years younger than us generation. Blame them!” We weren’t hearing any public sniping and finger pointing until he got the ball rolling. Maybe he’ll be smarter in the future. Maybe not.

        • Drewredux

          Its insane, isn’t it? This apparent half decade generation gap?

          • Yahmule

            I get so tired of people from my generation pissing on millennials without justification. Even more ri-goddamn-diculous to hear it from people in the same age group.

          • Drewredux

            It is remarkably silly. I think its media savvy vets capitalizing on a buzz topic. Its nicer than straight out saying they got some knuckleheads, pussies and assholes in the mix this class.

            Knuckleheads, pussies and assholes go back to homo habilis or before, I suspect.

          • RSH

            Mike Rutherford sang it well:

            Every generation blames the one before. And all of their frustrations come beating on your door.

          • DCJ1

            Actually, the defining event for the post-millennial generation is coming of age in the post-9/11 world. So anyone who wasn’t old enough to comprehend the impact of 9/11 (typical 5 years old or so) is considered part of Gen Z rather than a millennial. So it can be argued that the new rookies are the first of the new generation Z, also referred to as the iGen because of their association with the explosion of the intranet.

            This is only useful information if you believe that the overwhelming sense of entitlement is a characteristic of a particular generation rather than a feature of all freshly minted adults of all generations.

            I regard generational labels as useful only for shared experience (Vietnam, Reaganomics, dot com bubble, etc) and not as a guide to a general ersonality traits. The ability of rookies to work hard has more to do with their personal ethics rather than their birthdate (Ashley Lelie, anyone?)

          • Nick

            It’s still debatable as to where the Millennial/[generation after them] line is going to reside. Some argue (and I agree with this for now) that the recession beginning in 2008 was a more formative experience than September 11 because the effects of it were more widespread and constant. If this is the case, the cutoff is likely going to be somewhere between 2004/2005 for birthdates, whether or not they’ll have any memories, even faint, of what it was like before. Of course, people born in the early/mid 2000s are just barely out of primary school, so we have at least another decade to go before we know for sure.

            But I definitely agree with you either way that historical events are the dominating factor in determining societal generations, and that there are personality quirks within that can be shaped by those events but not overwhelmed. It’s why I’ve always found Strauss and Howe to be the most reliable on this subject since they take such a historically heavy look.

          • Drewredux

            As a parent, my concern for my millinial children is their detachment from the visceral world. The screen is like fucking heroin. Twitter is deep communication. Voyeurism, usually mean spirited, runs rampant.

            Maybe they’re evolving and I’m now a dinosaur. I don’t know.

          • cjfarls

            Yep – We’ve become a short-attention span society. I certainly am no one to throw stones/complain (I’m as addicted to my screens as anyone), but new tech has accelerated a change that really started back in the 1960s.
            Neil Postman was writing about this back in the 1980s (Amusing Ourselves to Death, etc.) and his writings are only more relevant today.

          • Rob Rooney

            I would also recommend ‘The Shallows’ by Nicolas Carr. The subtitle is ‘What the Internet is doing to our brains’ and is more recent than Postman. An interesting read about how we get away from deep reading because of the internet. Worth a read if you have time.

          • Yahmule

            I definitely experienced this. I used to read about a book a week. After the internet came around, I could feel my attention span degrading as I began doing most of my reading online. I had to make a conscious decision to start reading books again.

          • Rob Rooney

            It is tough. I really want to read more books but time and distraction do not help. At least when the weather is nice I have added audiobooks to my bike time and this helps out, though I only go audio for fiction. Non-fiction just doesn’t work for me in sound, i have to read and process it.

          • Yahmule

            Isn’t it great to see all these former Facebook execs talking about how horrible social media is and how they ban their children from using it? I hope one falls out of his 80 foot yacht and his children see him devoured by Tiger Sharks.

          • Drewredux

            You mentioned Black Mirror the other day. I love it, but I gotta admit some of the episodes flip me the fuck out. I worry they are prophetic to some degree.

          • Yahmule

            That’s what makes them so effective. ;~)

            I think of that show as the Twilight Zone 15 minutes in the future.

          • Nick

            You a Boomer, Xer, or a cusper between the two? To me it seems like Boomers are far worse about this than Xers.

          • Yahmule

            In between the second Boomer generation and X, which is fitting because I’ve never felt a part of either group or any group for that matter.

          • Nick

            The grand majority of early 1960s cohorts I’ve talked to always seem to say the same thing you said, and many of them seem to resent the Census Bureau lumping then in with Boomers. They always seem more Xer to me.

          • Yahmule

            I was born in the tail end of the Boomer II generation. We came of age during Watergate and the oil crisis and a million other reasons to be way more cynical about the country than the first Boomer wave.

          • bradley

            Disagree. Us older Boomers had Vietnam and the Cvil Rights issue down South to form our cynicism. Watergate was nothing compared to Vietnam.

          • Yahmule

            I don’t know, but I didn’t live through both like you. Here’s my opinion. Civil rights reform should have done the opposite of make you cynical, though, right? And protesting against an unjust war gave you something to rally together against. They tried to pretend Vietnam didn’t happen when I was a kid. I remember getting a brand new history book in fifth grade and I was eager to read about the war because I didn’t understand anything about it. Like, three paragraphs on the last page. Now, that’s even worse than cynical. That’s being unable to face our sins, which is why we’re still fighting ghosts of the Civil War today. That’s why Americans were so unprepared to protest against the bullshit war in Iraq while hundreds of thousands of Europeans flooded the streets.

          • bradley

            Civil rights reform is all good and well but it took a long time to get there, something we still haven’t actually attained.
            I’m talking about living through the time of Rosa Parks, Medgar Evers, and watching MLK’s peace marches while they were surrounded by fat sweaty white cops and sheriffs who were egged on by the likes of Governor George Wallace. It’s one thing to read about it or see videos of it later, when it had all settled down. With little violence all in all, if you don’t count a few white kids from the north disappearing, or Kent State, or MLK and Medgar Evers being killed.
            Protesting Vietnam did give us something to rally around but I think you are vastly underestimating the causes of the protest.
            Hundreds of American kids being killed or maimed, and thousands of Vietnamese (who just wanted to be left alone) being killed or maimed. And all for no reason except greed. All the fat cats with a piece of the military industrial complex were getting rich off the blood of the American kids and the Vietnamese.
            Watergate was no real surprise – we’d come to accept that sort of thing as the norm. What was most appalling about it was Nixon getting re-elected even though the story broke months before the election.

          • Yahmule

            My main takeaway is how much better the powers that be are at quelling dissent than they were back in the 60’s. The industrial war complex has never been more prosperous. We’re selling more than half of the weapons used in the world today and we’re selling weaponry to nearly half the countries in the world, including a few with a ghastly record on human rights.

          • bradley

            Ending the draft was huge in quieting dissent.
            But it is amazing how much news is censored these days. Or must be. How many soldiers died in Afghanistan yesterday? What happens to a captured American soldier? The Afghani’s have always been into torture to the death and I’m sure it still happens but nary a whisper in our press.

          • Hercules_Rockefeller

            I’m 40 and work for a company that is at least 90% millennial, and I
            think most of the stereotypes about them are pretty much wrong. Sure, they’re probably a bit less responsible than I am, but certainly not any less responsible than I was when I was their age and didn’t have kids. I’m pretty sure every generation bitches about the next one – I remember when Gen-X was all slackers, and now we’re the responsible elders doing the bitching.

          • Yahmule

            I’m sure the older generation was shaking their heads in disgust over the 1833 Factory Act and the soft children it would produce.

        • Royalwithcheese

          Maybe he knew about the problems with the kids and was trying to call them out.

          • Yahmule

            Well, he messed that up pretty good, IMO. Now he’s got a whole team full of guys pointing fingers. Does it make any sense that all the young guys are lazy? It sounds weird to me. Most rookies are wide-eyed and eager. I think these guys are simply reading cues from management and passing the shit downward.

        • Jeremy

          Half a decade? Wolfe is only 2 years older than Bolles

          • Jeremy

            And Shane Ray (who also criticizes Bolles in the article) is actually younger than Bolles

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      GM problem, Coach Problem. Leadership starts at the top. Make sure the player you draft had a “C” on their jersey in College.

      • Drewredux

        To me, that is 3/4 the appeal of drafting a Mayfield, Q. Nelson or R. Smith. Just injecting a little attitude and energy would go a long way.

    • Rob Rooney

      I really think it is more an issue of no strong veteran leadership on the team. You lose Manning and Ware and that is a huge void with no adequate way to fill it. Von got suspended for his behavior off the field so he has been there with the entitled behavior.

      All three QB’s together don’t have a tenth the leadership of PFM. I love Von but I wonder about him as a leader in the sense that he is such a playful guy and doesn’t have the same seriousness about him like Ware did.

      I blame the vets more than the rookies. It is them to demand the best from the rookies. While I think everyone should get some respect it is earned and if the rookies weren’t respecting the vets, then the vets didn’t earn it. Players should hold each other accountable.

      You have a defensive team captain getting in fights (entertaining but unprofessional), one who jokes around with everyone and an offensive captain (DT) who is more of a quiet guy. Your QB Captain is a 3rd year pro.

      The team lost a lot of leadership over the last 2 years from players retiring.

      • Yahmule

        Yep. I love Von and wouldn’t change a thing about him, but the guy who goofs around on the field with Tyrod Taylor has a tough assignment transitioning to a taskmaster role.

      • Hercules_Rockefeller

        There’s definitely a gap in leadership among the players after losing guys like Manning and Ware, but in the long run that falls on the head coach as well. Part of his job is to develop those locker room leaders, just as the individual position coaches develop position-specific skillets in their specific players. I’m not saying that Joseph is a bust at this point because that hasn’t happened yet; gaps in leadership can happen from year to year with any team. But it should probably be an area of emphasis going forward, and if improvement is not seen that should be a factor in whether or not he’s retained going forward.

        • cjfarls

          Its a hard thing for a 1st year coach to do, so I don’t judge him too much. Its also a hard thing to do when the team isn’t being successful, and that has a lot to do with talent (particularly at QB), a not a small bit of luck. So Joseph was dealt a bum-hand.

          That said, if the team keeps losing, VJ will never get that respect from the team… which will make the talent underperform…. its a self-reinforcing cycle, which is why the good coaches/front-offices often stay pretty consistent. We’re still in the “good side” of front offices/coaches/culture. We still have a lot of talent.

          Next year we need to get better at QB. If so, we should have more success absent bad luck. We’re talented enough QB-excepted to be better than our record this year. If we’re not, we’ll likely can VJ and try again.

    • The Color Orange

      Interesting. The reason Vance Joseph beat out Kyle Shanahan was supposedly that he was a leader of men who could manage the rift that had developed in the locker room between offense and defense. Instead he oversaw the creation of an entire new rift and he couldn’t do anything to fix it.

    • Paco Alonzo

      Well if Legwold is reporting it the Broncos must of wanted it to leaked. I wonder if the team is hoping that it will give the Rooks a reality check when they see this article.

  • ohiobronco
    • Jeremy

      Imagine how scary the Patriots would be if they had the 4th overall pick.

      And imagine how the Browns would have found a way to ruin Jimmy G

    • Kyle Milligan

      Always my question around browns’ QB related decisions:

      Would jimmy G. have saved the browns, or would the browns ruin jimmy?

      • Jeremy

        A mix of both in my opinion. He would take them from a 0 loss team to simply a bad team, but he wouldn’t realize his full potential, and he wouldn’t be thought of as great or even good qb.

        I really think the culture around that team is going to be incredibly tough to overcome, no matter how many draft picks or cap space they stockpile

      • Yahmule

        Add Jimmy GQ to Josh Gordon and Saquon Barkley? That team would have kicked our asses this season. Maybe this coming season, too.

      • Hercules_Rockefeller

        The Browns would have ruined him. It’s not just bad luck that certain teams repeatedly ruin highly drafted QB prospects while others have markedly better track records. While there’s obviously a bit of a “chicken or the the egg” argument to be had regarding teams with good QBs and consistent winning, when you look at the top quarterbacks in the league most of them were drafted by either teams that were already successful franchises (Roethlisberger, Brady, Rodgers, Wilson), or at least fairly competent franchises (Wentz, Ryan, Prescott). There are a few QBs that were drafted by bad teams and found sucess elsewhere (Brees, Smith), and a few successful QBs drafted by bad teams (Newton, Dalton), but SOOOO many examples of high draft picks who failed after being drafted by bad teams. The odds that the Browns / Lions / Bills, etc. haven’t picked a single guy who could have been a good NFL QB given the right development are astronomically low, given how many high draft picks they’ve collectively used on QBs over the years.

  • Kyle Milligan

    What a game last night. Thank you, Kevin sweet, for providing stream links!

    Never considered myself a fan of the tide, but it is hard not to have immense respect for saban.

    • Nick

      People who say Belichick’s acolytes always fail always seem to forget about Saban.

      • Kyle Milligan

        I always forget he was under ol’ Bill, too.

        That half-time QB change put me over the top, I now have a Wanye’s World “we’re not worthy” level of respect.

        • Nick

          Someone should do a study on how well teams do when they change their QB midgame, and whether the opponents struggle with game time adjustments. I think about two Broncos games this year in which Siemian almost led a comeback at the Raiders, and when Osweiler destroyed the Colts.

          • Jeremy

            And the last game of 2015. I’d do this study if there was a way with pfr

          • Yahmule

            I saw Kent Graham come in and lead Washington to a win against the Broncos in freezing rain. A bit later, I saw Kordell Stewart come off the bench and beat them in bitter cold. That was during my bad run when I could magically find the bad weather game on the schedule every year.

          • RSH

            Jake Plummer was definitely not ready to come in and play against the 49ers in Week 17 of the 2006 season when Jay Cutler had to leave the game with an injury. https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/07/01/si-vault-jake-plummer-retirement-handball-denver-broncos. That was an awful day, and the day after was even worse. http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/denverpost/obituary.aspx?pid=20508253.

            For now, let’s go back to the last thing most Denver fans remember about Jake Plummer.

            ‘Screw it,’ thought Plummer, ‘I’m going to win this thing.’ It was the last game of the 2006 season, against the lowly 49ers, and he had been summoned from the Broncos’ sideline. Only a month earlier, coach Mike Shanahan had benched Plummer, a 10-year veteran, in favor of a strong-armed but immature rookie, Jay Cutler. The team, which had been 7–4, faltered. One season removed from the AFC Championship Game, Denver was on the verge of missing the playoffs.

            At first, Plummer, who’d been an All-Pro only a season earlier, had been angry about the demotion. Ever the optimist, though, he soon noticed a silver lining. Suddenly he could simply revel in the grandeur of the game, in the sights and smells of the stadium. He spent pregame warmups playing football golf with fellow backup Preston Parsons. He ate hot dogs at halftime, joked with fans. For 14 years he’d started every game for his college and pro teams, other than the first few of his freshman and rookie seasons. So now he could finally breathe in the world. “I was like, ‘Man, this is a blast’,” he says. “I didn’t study the game plan, I didn’t have a clue what was going on.”

            Then, in the second quarter of the 49ers game, Cutler was sidelined by a crushing hit. So here was Shanahan, calling in Plummer. Shanahan, who had questioned Plummer’s work ethic even though he was one of the team’s best-conditioned players, who had ignored warnings by other players not to switch quarterbacks. (Even Cutler, after his first start, told Plummer the team would have won had he played, according to Stefan Fatsis’s book A Few Seconds of Panic.) What’s more, though Shanahan didn’t know it, Plummer had made up his mind to retire after the season.

            So how can you blame Plummer for doing what he did next—for going out on the field and trying to win the damn thing? “I just went for broke,” Plummer says. “I remember Mike Bell went down for like a 60-yard play. And the first guy to pick him up was me. I was running alongside him. I was so psyched. I was running around, shouting at the other team, ‘Jake the F—— Snake is back!'”

            Parsons remembers the electricity, the stirrings of another Plummer comeback. “And he was doing it by basically saying f— you to the coach,” says Parsons. “Which is something all players wish they could do but no one has the guts to.”

            With a chance to extend the Broncos’ 3–0 lead, Plummer says, “I rolled out to my left, made a guy miss and was like, ‘Ah, there goes Javon Walker, and I just heaved a Hail Mary.’” Plummer pauses. “And he trips, and the safety intercepts it.”

            With that, the magic was bottled. Shanahan put Cutler back in, but not before trying to chastise Plummer, who walked past, ignoring his coach. Quarterbacks coach Pat McPherson then walked over. “Gosh, you just really can’t make that throw,” he told Plummer. And that’s how Plummer’s football career ended, some would say fittingly: with a desperation pass picked off.

          • Yahmule

            No offense to you, RSH, but this article is complete an utter bullshit. Ask Tom Nalen if Plummer was trying to win that game.

            Blows my mind that this writer can talk about a guy who quit on his team the day Jay Cutler was drafted and find his way clear to call Cutler the immature one.

            We’re all up in arms today about uncoachable players and now here’s an article that celebrates a player (a quarterback, no less) who resented being coached hard and let everybody know it.

          • RSH

            The article does not say that Plummer was not trying to win the game. The article states that Plummer was unprepared to play, which Plummer admitted to in the article. Said Plummer, “I was like, ‘Man, this is a blast’,” . . . “I didn’t study the game plan, I didn’t have a clue what was going on.”

          • Yahmule

            “So how can you blame Plummer for doing what he did next—for going out on the field and trying to win the damn thing?”

            Tom Nalen has stated pretty unequivocally that Plummer was just out there screwing around. Playoffs on the line, but his feelings were hurt by the mean coach, so his teammates were left hanging.

          • RSH

            I have no qualms with your position that what Plummer did was selfish, unprofessional, and immature. Cutler still proved to be quite immature during his time in Denver, Chicago, and Miami. I don’t think Plummer’s behavior that day and Cutler’s general demeanor have to be mutually exclusive. Like you, I wanted the Broncos to win that game and make the playoffs. I was very disappointed that Plummer’s lack of preparation more than likely cost the Broncos that opportunity.

          • Yahmule

            I just think his enduring reputation among Bronco fans is at odds with reality. Jake was a popular guy because being a popular was important to him. Jay is the opposite. Had their roles been reversed in that Frisco game, it would be example A of what selfish shithead Jay was, but Jake gets a pass for putting his hurt feelings above a playoff appearance for his fellow players and coaches. And again, Jake’s biggest problem with Shanahan was that he didn’t like being coached. It blew his mind that Mike might have serious issues with his game play after wins, because, hey, we won, right?

          • Jeremy

            I agree, and I think it’s crazy (but explainable) how fans perception of plummer have changed over the years. I put my thoughts down in the our series last off season debating whether plummer deserves to be in the ROF.

            Fans today would not side with a QB who thought their coach was too hard on them

          • Jeremy

            I thought that article was incredibly insightful, although it is written in a very forgiving tone towards Plummer (but I guess it depends on your values).

            The Article came out in 2010 or 2011 I think when plummer was just starting to come out of hiding. It, along with what Steve Fatsis and Nate Jackson wrote in their books, and what Ted Sundquest have said since paint a very detailed picture of that whole situation.

          • Yahmule

            I read Nate’s book and it was even handed. I need to break down and read the Fatsis book. I’ll admit that the excerpts made me think it was slanted towards Jake. I can easily envision Jake treating Stefan like a bro and Mike viewing him as a mild nuisance. But it’s not fair to hold that opinion unless I actually read it. You recommended it to me before, so I’m going make time for it.

            I’m currently reading a book by Mark Kram called Ghosts of Manila, written back in 1980, which details the Ali/Frazier rivalry and how much it cost each man. My friend gave it to me and Kram sets about demythologizing a lot of what people believe about both men. I actually disagree with a lot of his conclusions, but I did appreciate this perspective. Hard to find anything about Ali now that doesn’t tend towards hagiography, although Thomas Hauser’s book was fairly recent and very balanced.

            https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51l6wNvB7OL._SX330_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

          • Hercules_Rockefeller

            A Few Seconds of Panic is a really great book IMO. I don’t recall Fatsis addressing the Plummer / Cutler situation that much, most of it is focused on the experiences of the kickers and guys who are on the roster bubble such as himself. You do get the impression that Fatsis is not particularly impressed by the way Shanahan relates to his players; IIRC he describes Shanahan to a corporate manager in contrast to the inspirational / motivator brand of football coach (I think we can all agree with that asessment).

            Overall It’s a really interesting and entertaining read; as far as broncos books go that and Floyd Little’s autobiography are essential reading IMO.

          • Yahmule

            Another reason I should read it. I think Mike has struggled with player relationships pretty much throughout his coaching career, except when he had Elway on the roster. He was a micro-managing dick in LA and he went out of his way to create problems for himself in Washington. It’s not difficult to believe the poor relationship with Jake could have been better if Mike tried harder.

          • Yahmule

            “I didn’t study the game plan, I didn’t have a clue what was going on.”

            Go fuck yourself with that Billy Joe Hobert bullshit.

      • RSH

        Sounds like the makings of a sweet rap song featuring Bill Belichick and Nick Saban. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QFcv5Ma8u8k

  • Nick
  • RSH
  • RSH
    • Yahmule

      Probably a good move. Panthers offense is tough to watch. Remains to be seen how much they can change Cam at this late date. He will always revert to what got him here. He had the most rushing attempts of his career in year seven. That’s bass ackwards. Remarkable that he’s only missed three games in his career.

  • RSH
    • Jeremy

      None of the QBs went on to have much success in the NFL, although McCarron has shown promise

    • Sparks

      Alabama consistently wins because they win in the trenches not because of QB play. Every year they have 1-2 OL and DL with a 1st round grade.

      • RSH

        I think that is part of Klatt’s point. Alabama continues to win national championships despite having less than stellar quarterbacks.

  • The Color Orange
    • Nick

      They sure graded the tight ends poorly. I wonder how much of that was being failed by poor QB play.

      • cjfarls

        Engram had a lot of drops, and wasn’t a great blocker (likely contributing to the poor overall grade)… but I’m sure NYG are very happy with their pick… he single handedly was carrying that offense for a few weeks.
        I didn’t get to watch Howard much/at all, but was more in a timeshare arrangement so who knows….

        • Yahmule

          Engram hit the wall hard. And he does need to clean up the drops, but he will be one of their best players soon.

    • Sparks

      Wonder what kind of rating Bolles could have achieved if he got to play with the quick release and elite decision making of one of the top 3 QB’s in the game like Ramczyk enjoyed this year instead of the TS/Os/PL combo? I’d have to think it’s an easy 10ish+ point swing playing with someone like Brees as opposed to PL.

      • RSH

        This is a really good point that I had not considered.

        • Carsonic

          Ditto.

        • Nick

          This is why I have a tough time placing too much confidence in PFF grades. What looks good/bad to them may not look good/bad to someone who understands the ins and outs of the surrounding players and system.

          • Yahmule

            Bolles had the fifth most penalties in the NFL and he gave up the third most sacks. Given that knowledge, 68.8 doesn’t seem like anything to complain about.

          • DragonPie

            I don’t think it’s something to complain about, period. There’s a lot of guys with lower grades from this draft. Sure, the team might have made a suboptimal choice, but a huge portion of first round picks bust, especially from the latter half of the first round, so getting a starter is a good pickup, even if he has room to grow and another guy may have been a better selection for another team.

          • Yahmule

            I don’t have a big problem with Bolles. He just happens to be in the news cycle. I liked Ramczyk more and more than that, I wanted to get a playmaker in round one and draft an OT in round two. I’m only mentioning his stats because people seem to be over correcting in their assessment of him now. There was so much trepidation that when he was decent, we were all relieved, but he really wasn’t much better than decent. The reason Garrett was a 25 year old rookie can be traced to an anti-authoritarian streak and it’s not that shocking to see him still responding emotionally instead of positively when he’s being corrected by teammates or coaches. Next season will be a big one for him. I think he’s got the potential to be one of the most improved players on the team now that he’s got his feet wet.

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        I’ve been thinking the same every time I hear the Ramczyk comparison. No disrespect to Ramczyk, but it is no comparison. We had the “best offensive line in football” when we had Manning. Did we really have the best offensive line of football?

        • Yahmule

          I saw those guys on third and one. At no point did I ever think we had the best line in football.

        • Jeremy

          In 2011 our oline had the best run blocking grade and one of the worst pass blocking grades. The year after it flip flopped, and we had one of the worst run blocking but one of the best pass blocking, even though the guys on the line were largely the same. (Dan Koppen replaced JD Walton and Manny Rameriez replaced Chris Kuper, both for about 75 percent of the snaps)

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            The Tebow/McGahee factor. Since we couldn’t pass, we lead the league in rushing. One thing Tebow could do was get the run game going. Surprisedly, with a stacked box.

          • DragonPie

            Running QB’s do really improve the run game.

          • Jeremy

            Exactly, but it’s strong evidence that their grades are a reflection of the system and not individual player performance as they are supposed to be. I didn’t need advanced metrics to tell me the broncos had a good running attack in 2011 and gave up few sacks in 2012.

            What would he be nice is to know how much the offensive lineman vs scheme contributed to that, but it seems pff fell short of providing insight.

      • FarAwayBroncoFan

        Exactly.

      • Yahmule

        Bolles allowed eight sacks and Ramcyzk allowed two. Bolles had seven holding penalties and Ramcyzk had two. Let’s be incredibly generous and say that’s 100% because of Drew Brees being awesome and our guys being awful. Bolles also had four false starts to one for Ramczyk. No way to put that on the quarterbacks, is there? Seems like a concentration problem. Does Ramczyk get any credit for being part of a line that set a record for running back production or was that all Ingram and Kamara?

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          You definitely don’t hear his name mentioned as often when referencing the bad ass draft the Saints had. He’s a fine young player, and could very well be better than Bolles, but I don’t think PFF can adequately capture the Brees factor in their formula. Wasn’t Ryan also moved from his position a couple times?

          • Yahmule

            Ramczyk, the guy with the worrisome hip, played every snap this season.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            Every man over 300 lbs has a worrisome hip. 😉 I was referring to him having to change positions as a result of other players being injured, but I think they just moved him from LT, to RT which takes versatility despite what most people think. Essentially, you have to change your lead foot often times when coming off the ball. Very difficult at the pro level I’m sure.

          • Yahmule

            I’ve had a metal hip for coming up on ten years now. Pairs nicely with all the hardware in my knee. I am a far cry from 300 pounds, but I think I gained every pound Sterling has lost over the last couple of years.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            Sorry to hear that. Hopefully you are pain free, or properly medicated!

          • Yahmule

            Hip and knee are both in relatively good shape now. I’ll get the weight off, too. The last year has been so depressing that I’ve used it as an excuse to let things go. Not a good idea for a guy my age.

          • BlackKnigh

            My nurse practitioner told me to drop some weight a few years back. I was 195 lbs. She told me that belly fat can be a factor with my heart and put me in danger there. I had already made the decision to drop some weight when I saw a photo of myself at Estes Park. I asked who that fat old man was? I realized it was me.
            I am now 175. I work to stay there – but I feel great. Well worth the effort to stay this light.

        • FarAwayBroncoFan

          Ramczyk seems very, very good. But he has a QB that not only has a quick release, but can read defenses and make sure they’re in the best play possible.

          Take Brees out of N.O., and their running game likely suffers. Have to respect Brees, or you get diced up like Carolina did last week; and how well did they run it last week?

          A great QB makes everyone around him look better.

          The penalties, I agree are on the player, although again, for the holding, some may be on the QB not getting them into the best play and/or holding the ball too long.

          Lastly, and this probably matters a lot less, but Ramczyk plays RT, and he doesn’t have to face AFCW passrushers twice a year.

          All that said, I agree that Kerrigan abused Bolles.

      • ohiobronco

        A better QB would have helped Bolles but I don’t think he has the mental aptitude to play NFL offensive line at a high level.

    • Yahmule

      Jamal Adams @ 81.2 and TJ Watt @ 78.2, although respectable scores, seem a bit low to me.

    • VonSwenson

      Look how poorly all the high-pick WRs did: #5 pick 51.8, #7 pick 45.7, #9 pick 45.9. And that TE we were slobbering over. picked just before our turn: 41.9.

  • Nick

    I’d like to see him get out of San Diego Los Angeles.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/950808245605629954

    • Yahmule

      I’ll bet the Seahawks want him back.

  • RSH

    I recognize that this is a PR puff piece, but the more that I hear from the organization and people who know and/or are close to John Elway, I just do not see the Broncos drafting a quarterback with the fifth overall pick in the 2018 NFL Draft. For better or worse, right or wrong, I think that the Broncos are going all in on Kirk Cousins if he becomes available. I recognize the salary cap gymnastics and tough decisions that will need to be made to facilitate such a move. I just do not see John Elway and this fan base, who the Broncos’ organization to both its credit and detriment listens to, having the patience to start a rookie at quarterback in 2018.

    https://twitter.com/Broncos/status/950797126069604357

    • Yahmule

      Quenton or Minkah, John. Saquon won’t be there and Chubb isn’t a great fit for the defense. Trade down* if you’re going to take a non quarterback @ five that isn’t one of these guys.

      And, yeah, pay Cousins what it takes. Might as well take a shot while we have the main pieces of this defense in or still near their primes.

      *don’t trade down

  • Nick
    • RSH

      Makes sense. Rivera was on Turner’s staff in San Diego at one point. Turner also uses the same verbiage as Shula.

    • QDoc

      Norv is known for having a vertical system, and throwing a lot of check downs to backs on wheel routes. Cam has a big arm, and there’s that McCaffrey kid. I don’t think their WRs are vertical burners, but they are huge. Kind of like in San Diego when ol’ Norv had huge-ass Vincent Jackson and Michael Floyd. Could be scary.

      • Yahmule

        The Panthers last vertical burner was wearing black and gold and going 80 yards to the house against his former team unfortunately.

  • Yahmule

    Teams always say they’re going to draft the BPA, but they only actually do it on those occasions where the BPA and the best player at their most glaring weakness happen to intersect. But after the top of the first round, there are usually a handful of guys who could reasonably be the BPA at any given time. Thus, you could generally fill a need and still feel like you got the BPA. Up in the top five, the differences in talent are much more clear cut. There are typically only a few true blue chippers in any draft. Passing on one for a position of need here can be the difference in getting a solid starter or a multiple All Pro and franchise cornerstone. Elway trusted the film and took the multiple All Pro/franchise cornerstone option over the top rated player at the presumed position of greatest need and it remains his most astute decision as an executive. I really hope we treat this precious top five pick in a top heavy draft the same way.

    • Drewredux

      It kinda sucks to be where were at with no Wentz level prospect swimming in the QB pool.

      • Yahmule

        Yeah, but it could have been 2013, too.

  • Nick

    Charean Williams at PFT seems to hint that old friend Rico could be in trouble. If he is fired, that likely lowers the odds of Tyrod Taylor staying as well.

    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2018/01/09/bills-have-decisions-to-make-on-rick-dennison-tyrod-taylor/

    • RSH

      Rico needs to go back to being a special teams or offensive line coach. Play calling is definitely not his forte.

    • ohiobronco

      It definately gives me pause about Taylor that Buffalo is just as eager for a QB upgrade as Denver is.

    • ohiobronco

      Relevant to this topic, Crockett is going to a discussion now about on 760 about the good old boys network and constantly recycling the same coaches. He would like to break into coaching but hasn’t been able to yet.

  • Nick

    Here’s a random demographic note from watching college football this year. A few years ago I noticed how the name Shaquille and its variants were skyrocketing among athletes. This was because it timed perfectly with Shaquille O’Neal becoming famous precisely 18-22 years ago.

    I’ve noticed the same phenomenon with the name Raekwon and its variants this year. The first NFL Raekwon I can think of was Raekwon McMillan from Ohio State to the Dolphins just last year. I’m guessing it was due to the most famous Raekwon releasing his solo album 22 years ago.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Only_Built_4_Cuban_Linx

  • Saints LT Terron Armstead on NFLR now just gushing about Ramczyk’s professionalism, maturity and takent. About the opposite of what Broncos vets think of Bolles. Good think we had that Geep Chryst insight on Ramczyk, ha!

    • Hank Mardukis

      We should probably just kill ourselves.

      • Royalwithcheese

        It’s not enough that Bolles gets his QBs killed. Now he’s trying to kill us too!

    • Tyler

      As I recall the general feeling around here is most didn’t like either tackle prospect. If you’re like Yahmule and you openly called for Ramczyk over Bolles then complain away. Otherwise I think we should be pretty happy with the tackle we have.

    • G Mik

      Come on. It was widely believed that there wasn’t a 1st round LT prospect in the entire draft. That included Ramczyk didn’t it? But guess what – it had 3 that played pretty well. We won’t know for a few years if the Doctors were rightfully concerned over his hips or whatever the heck they said was an issue. And Bolles was always the most raw of the top LTs in the draft. So let’s not act like he has peaked and we’ve seen the best of him OR that he even should have been better than Ram in their first years. That’s never been the case.

      I’m not buying the uncoachable stuff about Bolles. And while there is real reason for concern with him and in his consistent mistakes, anyone who expected him to be as good as he was this year probably doesn’t know much about the nuances of playing football. He has such little experience it’s surprising to think he played this well. Regardless, he has a high ceiling and it might take him a couple more years to find it or he won’t for some of your reasons but we don’t know yet. He’s just not confident yet despite all of his bravado. But he has talent and he has nasty so let’s hope he continues to mature.

  • RSH
    • Nick

      Chris Berman came before you with Sleeping With Bieniemy.

      • ohiobronco

        During his CU playing days it was Public Bieniemy

    • Yahmule

      I saw him fumble like eight times one rainy day in Nebraska.

      • Hank Mardukis

        And they still won the game.

        • Yahmule

          He got most of them back. :~)

    • Rob Rooney

      Next year we will definitely have a Bieniemy at the Gates when KC is in town.

    • Carsonic

      We’ll be good buds with anyone who figures out how to beat his schemes. After all, the enemy of Bienemy is our friend.

  • RSH

    This surprises me based on Chuck Pagano’s availability.

    https://twitter.com/Ravens/status/950848393122893826

    • Laces Out

      Well, he was one of the worst DC’s we ever had…that or a combo of him and the players we had at that time. Good luck with THAT!

      • Nick

        It’s really difficult to figure out who was worse between him or Bob Slowik.

        • Jeremy

          I think slowik was worse. 2010 had a lot more talent in my opinion. But both were horrific. But also, people can improve. Maybe he’s learned something in his 6 years in Baltimore

          • Yahmule

            I would stack Slowik up against just about anybody in a worst coaches competition. I was ready for Shanahan to go when he dug in his heels over Bob.

      • RSH

        John Harbaugh setting himself up for a possible swansong in Baltimore. If the Broncos have to make a coaching change next offseason, and Harbaugh is available, I could see the Broncos being very interested. Wink Martindale need not be included.

        Martindale served as the defensive coordinator of the Denver Broncos in 2010 under Josh McDaniels. The Broncos gave up the most yards (390.8) and points (29.4) per game in the NFL that year.

        However, Martindale was without top pass rusher Elvis Dumervil in his prime because of a torn pectoral, and Von Miller was drafted the next year. The Broncos did not have nearly as much defensive talent that season as the Ravens currently have on the roster.

        • Nick

          2019’s also the first year the Ravens can get out of the monstrous Joe Flacco contract, so that would be a good time for Ozzie Newsome to hit a hard reset button, or Steve Biscotti if he dares to fire Newsome.

    • ohiobronco

      I was just thinking about him a while ago in reference to other terrible seasons. I thought no way he is still in the league.

    • The Color Orange
      • Laces Out

        Stfront door Klis…fuckin dolt

    • It’s easy to say that it’s a bad decision based on Martindale’s one season with Denver, but that was also his first season as a defensive coordinator in the NFL (his other DC stints were in college football).

      It’s not comparable to, say, Bob Slowik, whose one-year stint as DC in Denver was not his first DC stint. He had previous DC stints in Chicago and Green Bay and, more importantly, his past stints told you all you needed to know that he wasn’t good at the job any longer. GB ranked 29th in defensive DVOA in his one year with the team (2004) and when he was with the Bears from 1993 to 1998, the Bears were ninth in defensive DVOA his first year, then dropped to 15th, then to 20th and were never higher than 22nd after that.

  • Laces Out

    Mark Davis, for real, those bangs…how is that possible on a billion dollar man!?

  • RSH
  • RSH
  • Broncos777

    I don’ know if this has been mentioned because I’ve been pretty busy with work and don’t always make it through the comments. I do, however, get to listen to a few podcasts now and then on my daily commute. DMac recently discussed a lengthy interview that Kirk Cousins had on DC radio a few days ago. In the interview, DMac said that Cousins really respected and appreciated Mike Shanahan for believing in him even more than he believed in himself early in his career. He also said that Bill McCartney’s son is Cousins’ agent. Obviously, DMac suggested these connections might help attract Cousins to Denver.

    • Jeremy

      I haven’t seen it discussed. Every little bit helps, but with neither of those guys have any tangible connection to the organization I think it’s a pretty minor advantage. Maybe his agent plugs how great a city Denver is to live in and Shanahan tells him the Broncos and Elway are a great team to play for but that’s about it. I have to believe he’s gonna weigh a lot more pieces of information than that.

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        I don’t get why Shanahan’s name isn’t thrown around more in coaching vacancies. Aside from having some mediocre season’s post Elway, he really is a good coach, and a brilliant offensive mind. I thought he did pretty well during his time in Washington also. I wonder if he is really that hell-bent on having control of personnel like many elude to?

        • Jeremy

          I’m curious if he wants to anymore, or if he’s been jaded by all the shit he’s put up with and he’s 65.
          Teams also usually want to go after the hot new up and coming hc over the proven been around the block hc. It’s the same thing that goes on with qbs.

          Could be a little bit of everything. He may only want to come back for the perfect opportunity, and he’s considered b list so his name will never be brought up for those great opportunities. I’m curious how many coaches have been a head coach for 4 teams.

          Shanahan hasn’t had a good relationship with a QB besides Elway, and he’s had a lot of very bad relationships. He has 1 playoff win in the past 20 years and none in the past 12

          • BlackKnigh

            If Shanahan would be content with being only the HC – he could really transform a team. When he handles that and GM – it is too much and he is not young anymore.

  • RSH
  • RSH

    This is more frightening than Raiders’ fans.

    https://twitter.com/nbcsraiders/status/950902097775542273

    • Jeremy

      The mismatched audio and video make it even weirder. Makes my mind think it’s some crappy actor trying to read a script and voice over some promo or something

    • Yahmule
    • Laces Out

      Too bad this roid rager didn’t win shit with the Raiders and had to come join our crew to actually get the job done

  • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey
  • Royalwithcheese