• InSiemianWeTrust
  • Russ

    Yesterday’s “news” but I didn’t see it posted anywhere. Hard to believe, if true. And if true, my guess is this neither the Broncos or Cowboys offers (if any) came anywhere near this…
    https://twitter.com/si_peterking/status/841990287287283713

    • ohiobronco

      If that was the total with incentives I could see it.

  • bradley
    • Romo got $63 for his one drive in week 17, ha.

      • bradley

        You’re shorting the guy. He actually got $64.11

    • ohiobronco

      I hope Paradis’ body holds up long enough for him to get paid for real.

      • Nick
        • InSiemianWeTrust

          Grinder.

          • ohiobronco

            Strap on the hard hat and grab your lunch pail.

          • GrizzlyB

            After MNF games, my vote for Gruden’s Grinder is always meatball marinara.

      • Benjamin Funderburk

        Speaking of Paradis’ body holding up, I hope his “hips don’t lie” and that we never have to see Ferentz play significant time this season.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          I think/hope Garcia will serve as the backup C, and then the primary backup G (McGovern? Schofield?) would come in to take Garcia’s spot at RG if Paradis misses time. Just a hunch.

          • CFD1983

            I really think schofield is in the running for RT, from what I’m hearing Paridis is the only one with a starting position right now, all others are up for grab..

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            We can safely pencil in Ronald Leary (probably at LG) as well, and it would be surprising if Garcia doesn’t start at RG. Schofield will probably serve as a backup T and G if he doesn’t win the RT job. Vance Joseph said Schofield is a G, otherwise I would think he had more of a shot at RT, too.

          • Benjamin Funderburk

            Makes sense. Guess we’ll have a better idea based on how they draft and who they workout during training camp. With all the other issues along the OL, Paradis is the one shining star. Would hate for him to go down.

          • S Smith

            Schofield was doing much better at guard from what I saw.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            But not well enough to move the pile, grading poorly against the run, and not well enough to prevent the front office from aggressively signing his replacement in FA (Ronald Leary).

      • Yahmule

        I think it’s very possible he’s actually a lot better next season. The procedures he had were essentially debridements to clean up the joints, not any kind of structural repair.

        • Carsonic

          As long as he doesn’t put on a lot of weight. You are familiar, I assume, with the medical epigram “Here comes debride – big, fat, and wide”?

  • Nick

    “A rare true NT.” :thinking emoji:

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/842390504947998720

    • PiperAR

      #fakeNT

  • The Color Orange
    • Nick

      If I had to choose, I’d rather have Mixon than Dede Westbrook. But of course, I would want Christian McCaffrey orders of magnitude more than Mixon.

      • Russ

        After knowingly hiring a head coach accused of rape, I feel like the Broncos PR capital is not substantial enough to also throw this guy into the mix.

        • The Color Orange

          Joseph wasn’t accused of rape, but it’s a fair point.

          • gobroncos

            He was accused of sexual harassment. But only because he had sex with a coworker (a trainer). But my understanding is that she was willing. It was only sexual harassment as a technicality because it was on school property. Am I wrong in this? Also, he was married at the time, so it doesn’t exactly excuse his character. But it’s better than, say, tea-bagging a trainer who didn’t want you to do that…well…maybe not better….I don’t know.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            No, the allegations were that he went back to an apartment with two women after a night of partying, got naked and got in bed with each of them separately, rubbing his erect penis on them as they did not reciprocate his advances. One pretended to be sleeping, and the other told him essentially to fuck off, at which point he left. That’s the incident in question.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Maybe it shouldn’t be, but it is. Broncos media and fans have spoken and they don’t care and don’t want to go there. So Mixon will be fine….

          • RSH, Esq.

            Classic strawman argument, Rhett. Joseph’s and Mixon’s situations are distinguishable. There is clear, irrefutable video evidence of Mixon’s criminal act. The evidence in Joseph’s case is much murkier. If it was up to me, I would not select Mixon to become a Bronco.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            What is the straw man? The claim is that there will be no PR issue given that the Broncos have shown that they have a strategy in place to handle these issues. That strategy being to not address it… It’s been very effective…

            (For the 15th time as well….this is not a criminal issue. It’s an HR issue….)

          • Nick

            I’m not sure that I’ve asked you this before, but since you call it an HR issue, what do you think would be proper employment for Joseph?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            My point here is that RSH likes to argue the matter from a criminal standpoint. I agree that if you were to take VJ to court on sexual assault charges with the evidence as it currently stands, it would be difficult to obtain a criminal conviction. He’s probably just lucky that due to the issues faced by sexual assault victims in bringing charges against their employer/supervisor, he get’s off….welcome to America.

            I call it an HR issue because the Broncos and the public don’t need all that. There is enough evidence and issues to have prevented a hire by the Broncos. We see private persons dismissed from jobs all the time based on allegations and unseemly associations. No crime is prosecuted, but it does affect conditions of employment.

            As far as Joseph goes, I stand by what I’ve always said. I fully believe in second chances. I believe that people change and grow. But I also believe that if you got away with it on the first chance, you don’t get that second chance until you are accountable. VJ has never been accountable. Not then, not now. Further, we are seeing right now the HR issue that is developing. If the Broncos draft Mixon, who is going to make sure he toes the line, VJ? He has no ethical capital in his bank there…..that is an HR problem.

          • Nick

            Good stuff, but I’m afraid that didn’t answer my question. You say it should “have prevented a hire by the Broncos”, of which was head coach. Should the Dolphins have hired him as DC? Should the Bengals have hired him as a position coach? Should he have any football job? Any job?

          • Royalwithcheese

            I think the question is what constitutes being held accountable at this point?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Sure, very fair question. And this get to the heart of the question regarding allegations and their impact on both those who are actually guilty, but never found so, and those who are not guilty, but found to be guilty…

            I’m not saying he shouldn’t be able to work. Absolutely he should be able to. There is no legal reason he should not be able to obtain employment. But I’m also not saying that I, as a fan, and someone who has contributed to the team via ticket and memorabilia purchases should like it when he does… But that is not the question at hand I suppose.

            The Broncos would have been justified in not hiring him solely due to the background issues. That is the HR issue…

          • Nick

            Thanks for the answer!

          • RSH, Esq.

            “The Broncos would have been justified in not hiring [Joseph] solely due to the background issues.” Possibly. The Broncos could have also been subject to an EEOC complaint and lawsuit at that point based on a disparate treatment employment hiring discrimination claim for failing to hire Joseph based on this reasoning. https://www.eeoc.gov/policy/docs/factemployment_procedures.html.

            There may be evidence that sexual assault claims that turn out to be false or unproven have a disparate impact against men of color, particularly black men. See Nancy Gertner, Complicated Process, 125 Yale L.J.F. 442, 442-43 (2016); Janet Halley, Trading the Megaphone for the Gavel in Title IX Enforcement, 128 Harv. L. Rev. F. 103, 106–08; see also Robby Soave, Opinion, Is This the Most Unfair Campus Rape Investigation Ever?, Newsweek (Jan. 13, 2016) http://www.newsweek.com/university-findlay-campus-rape-investigation-415331 (“Some due process advocates who follow these cases, including Harvard University Law Professor Jeannie Suk, believe black male students are more likely to be falsely accused of sexual assault.”).

            The Broncos would be in choppy waters by refusing to hire Joseph based on the alleged wrongdoing. They would have been better off from a legal standpoint to have given no reason at all for not hiring Joseph.

          • Alaskan

            True enough. Why on earth would the Broncos cite unproven allegations as the basis for taking a pass on Vance? They didn’t cite any specific reason for not hiring Kyle. If they didn’t want to hire Vance, they wouldn’t have to give a reason. And they certainly wouldn’t have to wade into the murky waters of these allegations.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Yes, agree there. There would be no need to make any sort of declarative statement. My point is just that it would not have taken a criminal conviction for this issue to be the basis for which the Broncos did not hire him…

            Yet, we can also make our own judgement regarding the values of the team outside of any sort of criminal proceeding. The preponderance of the evidence here to me shows that he certainly engaged in activity that would be labeled sexual harassment as a coach with the trainers on campus, and then later in what would be labeled sexual assault in the incident with the two women at the bar.

            The Broncos have made their decision, and I’ve made mine…

      • GrizzlyB

        Yeah, it’s pretty much treated like a domestic incident, but I’m pretty convinced that Mixon would have clocked anybody in that scenario (well, anyone that he thought wouldn’t take the hit and kick his ass back, presumably). Not that that’s a good thing, but I also don’t think it’s as serious as tyrannizing a “loved” one behind closed doors. I guess my question is what the stigma around him would be had he cold-cocked a guy instead. You’d hope it would be the same, but I doubt it.

        I guess my point is that this guy is going to get a shot at the NFL either way, and he’s a phenomenal talent. I would be OK with adding him if I thought that he had adjusted his attitude or was in any way sorry for knocking out a girl’s lights in retaliation to a verbal altercation and a slight shove, but I very much doubt that. The dude’s a total hothead, and it shows up on the field, and it showed up when he got into a much more recent altercation with a parking lot attendant. I’m not going to hold a single, poor, spur-of-the-moment decision against a person forever, but he damaged that girl’s life and demonstrated that he gave no shits about it. His subsequent history indicates that he continues to not give any, nor will he start giving them in the future.

        The best outcome of this meeting should be other teams seeing it and thinking, “Boy, the Broncos are talking to that piece of shit? They must be dead-set against drafting McCaffrey with their 1st.” And then BAM! “With the 20th overall pick in the 2017 NFL Draft, the Denver Broncos select Christian McCaffrey, ass-kicker, Stanford.”

        • Sparks

          Agree on what you said on McCaffrey. As for Mixon, I hope he doesn’t end up with the Broncos. However, I hope he gets some really big deal and that girl takes a ton of it from him.

          • Alaskan

            It’s probably too late. The incident happened in 2014. I’m not an Oklahoma lawyer, but a little internet research showed that the statute of limitations is one year for assault and battery and two years for personal injuries generally. Unless she has already filed a lawsuit, she may be out of luck when he cashes in.

          • Sparks

            Not a lawyer here, so excuse my ignorance. With new evidence – the video – would that change the limitations? Does it ‘reset’, as it were?

            Either way, hopefully she filed. Even if he ended up being a bum player, I would think she could still go after the school if she filed in a timely manner.

          • Alaskan

            I’m afraid that new evidence would not help her at this point. Not sure how things work in Oklahoma, but in most states statutes of limitations can get extended if you don’t “discover” what happened when it happened (like latent effects of exposure to a toxic chemical). But she knew she got hit in face the second it happened. Her statute of limitations started running the second Mixon’s fist met her face. Hopefully, she already has a lawsuit on file or it will be too late.

          • Sparks

            Got it. Thanks for the knowledge.

        • Nick

          Right, your first paragraph is how I see it as well. That in no way excuses Mixon, who wasn’t punished nearly enough by OU (redshirted, not suspended!), but I can accept the possibility (not certainty) of what he did as an isolated incident, as opposed to a prolonged reign of terror that’s all too common with domestic violence. And he has apologized for what he did, though one can certainly argue that he only did so because he was caught on tape. I’m OK with Mixon getting a chance in the NFL, and I can even accept the Broncos being the one to give him that chance, though there are other RBs I would rather have than him.

    • The Color Orange
    • gobroncos

      Nah…Fuck this guy.

    • Royalwithcheese

      I would hope all Broncos fans don’t want this dude on their team. He doesn’t even make sense from a football perspective. He’s a three-down back. If they Broncos take him, where does that leave CJ and Booker?

      • InSiemianWeTrust

        Jury is still out on Booker.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          And CJ’s got ankle/knee problems. Certainly doesn’t hurt to have three backs who can play. I agree with RWC, though, in that a back with a complementary skill set would be more desirable.

      • RSH, Esq.

        Due diligence and deception.

        • InSiemianWeTrust

          Elway doesn’t blink at poker.

          “I see your Tyreek Hill, and I call your raise with Joe Mixon.”

    • Brian

      gross

    • Nick
      • RSH, Esq.

        Yup. Again, due diligence and deception.

    • Yahmule

      Mixon is obviously polarizing, but his circumstances lead to a lot of often contradictory feelings. Fans of 31 teams will soon be allowed a bit of temporary moral high ground. Hey, we didn’t take the guy. The bottom line is if your team drafts him, you’re going to end up rooting for him (at least indirectly) unless you decide to quit supporting that organization.

      The truth is the game is played by some very aggressive individuals, capable of violent actions, who are sometimes incapable of controlling those responses. Every team has guys with these traits to varying degrees and every team gets almost unlimited opportunities to add players like this to their roster, often at a discount. One reason Al Davis and the Raiders were wildly successful for a long stretch (one sub .500 record between 65 and 86) is because Al targeted players who other owners blackballed.

      If Mixon is indeed drafted two to three rounds below his true value, some team is going to get the same kind of discount the old Raider teams used to get. For this reason, I’m not surprised the majority of teams will interview Mixon. Not only to look him in the eye and get his side of the story, but as a kind of league wide price enforcement. I think some teams want to show enough interest to push him back up the board to an area that reflects his actual talent level.

      • ElwayIsGod7

        I will be sad if we draft Mixon.

        • Yahmule

          I don’t want him, either, but I will understand the ambivalence if he turns out to be a top five running back.

      • PiperAR

        There are lots of assholes in the world. Some of those assholes happen to be good at football. And being good at football allows said assholes to escape the full consequences of their assholery. Right or wrong, that’s how it works. And I don’t like it any better than you men.

  • The Color Orange
    • Nick

      Their summary lets the cat out of the bag:

      Summary: So how did they win Super Bowl 50 ranking this low? Von Miller preceded the timeframe (2011 class), they stole LB Brandon Marshall (released by Jaguars), made some great free-agent acquisitions (DeMarcus Ware, Aqib Talib) and became victims of their own success somewhat (lost Malik Jackson and Danny Trevathan in free agency but did recover compensatory picks).

      Drafting is a key part of building an NFL roster, but it’s not sufficient on its own. Finding low level SFAs (Marshall), high level UFAs/SFAs (Ware, Talib, Ward, etc.), letting players walk so you don’t blow up your salary cap (Jackson, Trevathan)–and not even mentioned, finding UDFAs (just as important of a process of acquiring rookies as the draft!), in which they got Chris Harris and CJ Anderson, among others.

      The methodology is also suspect to me on the surface. Are they counting alternates as Pro Bowlers? If so, that takes a lot of the honor to begin with. Does a below-replacement starter on a bad team still count as 3 points? Lots of questions with this…

      • Rhett Rothberg

        On this note, is there any sort of “roster construction metric”?

        We have advanced player performance stats (DVOA, etc…). But I wonder if there is a scheme afoot to measure roster building that takes into account how players are acquired, how they then perform, whether they stay or go, salary cap hit, all of that….

        • Nick

          That’s something that I’d love to build, but it’s going to take a lot of work. Maybe that’s a dead season project for the summer.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I would like you to work on it as well 😉

          • Yahmule

            I would like some help rolling boulders from the side of my house to the front yard for my current landscaping project. Busted the damn hand truck on one of them yesterday.

    • Yahmule

      Based largely on one point of criterion that is notoriously unreliable. Using this grading system, Matt Paradis is worth the same amount as Michael Schofield. This is bad methodology even by FOX’s thin standards.

      • The Color Orange

        And, I don’t think it should matter whether the player is starting for you, rostered for you, or nominated for the Pro Bowl while on your team. If the player is having success elsewhere in the NFL, that should be a plus for your drafting prowess, too. Whatever the circumstances that led the player to leave, his leaving says nothing about your drafting ability.

    • Russ

      I think someone (RSH?) was looking for something like this a couple days ago. This seems to favor teams that don’t have a lot of acquired (non-drafted) talent on the team or even undrafted free agents like the Broncos. I’m sure there are severa other flaws as well for those statisticians amongst us.

    • Jeremy

      Man, I wish I had more time to respond to this, but I don’t so I’ll instead give a few quick thoughts. 1) good teams will be punished in most draft analysis because they draft late in the draft, and it’s harder for their players to crack starting lineups and contribute. Was Kayvon Webster a bad pick, or was he blocked by 3 fantastic corners, or some combination of both? Just about any metric you use will consider him a “bad” pick because he didn’t contribute much beyond special teams. 2) The 2013 Broncos draft was awful, and the scoring system they used places more weight on this class than any other since they only looked at starts/roster spots in 2016, the 4th year for the 2013 class (when you’d expect the highest percentage of any class to be starting). 3) The more I look at the numbers, the more I think there’s some truth to the fact that Elway/Broncos have struggled lately in the draft and it is concerning. I’m not saying the sky is falling, or it’s time to oust Elway by any means, but it is concerning. CJ Anderson, Chris Harris, and Brandon Marshall are great, but I feel we haven’t added a player like that in a while. Todd Davis, Brandon McManus, and Shaq Barrett are great, but just haven’t had the same impact.

  • Nick
    • Nick
      • Any guesses on what compensatory pick a one year contract like that could end up netting the Chiefs?

        • Nick

          He signed for almost the same amount as Bennie Logan, so they should cancel each other out. Right now, the board has them getting a 5th for Nick Foles, but I think he’ll fall to a 6th unless Wentz gets seriously injured.

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I’m cool with this. Get his fat, touchdown catching ass out of our conference.

    • ohiobronco

      If they would have had him a month ago maybe they get one measly stop.

      • Clockwork Orange

        He would have been as gassed as the rest of the Falcons defense.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Les recounts a recent conversation with Trevor. Summary: Trevor has been studying McCoy’s film and thinks he will succeed in the new offense.

    https://audioboom.com/posts/5712436-3-15-17-eric-and-les-discuss-whats-going-through-the-mind-of-broncos-qb-trevor-siemian-amid-the-offseason-talks-surrounding-the-broncos

    • PiperAR

      And about the other guy, does playing Madden count as ‘film study’?

      dammit

    • drewthorn

      Siemian will succeed somewhere. He had a pretty successful debute when you consider the particulars.

      • PiperAR

        No one improves past their first year ever.

        • drewthorn

          It’s interesting to wander among the faithful and see that pretty much everybody agrees that Denver leaves much to be desired at OL and skill guys, yet Siemian is judged in a vacuum. Hell, all by its lonesome, 18 – 10 60 (8-6) is solidly respectable for a first year starter building off an entire season of scout team reps.

          • Yahmule

            I also think there’s a disconnect there. The average Thinairian agrees that the offensive tackles are below average; a lot of people questioned Booker’s instincts; many fans regarded Kubiak’s offensive scheme as too staid for the modern game. Yet, a kid who was dealing with his own learning curve and a bum shoulder is viewed as mainly maxed out backup material who (improbably) had his career year in his first season as a starter.

            I wonder what percentage of NFL quarterbacks actually peaked in year one. Surely less than 5%. I mean, it happens. Robert Griffin and Vince Young were a couple recent examples. I would guess that anyone who falls into that category was a mobile quarterback.

          • drewthorn

            My unofficial polling of friends and family indicate that those who don’t participate online and/or do not listen to sports talk radio are bullish on Siemian. Those more like us (that is, year around fans with a voracious appetite for all things NFL), are more skeptical or outright dismissive. So are the former under-analyzing him? The latter over-analyzing? I do not know.

            Also, I wonder how much the presence of Lynch skews opinions on Siemian. Had Dallas jumped Denver for Lynch and all else remained exactly the same, would people be more receptive to the possibility that Siemian may be the guy?
            Or would 75% of Thinairian types be pounding the table for a premium pick QB this year?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I would certainly be clamoring for the pick. I wonder, in the Lynch to Dallas scenario, if we would be talking about Lynch with the same fondness we are for Dak. That line, the run game, and the VERY simplified passing offense (they only had him read half the field on most throws, which is what good coaches do with young QBs who need time to learn the game) likely would have led to success with Lynch as well.

          • PiperAR

            Half field is still more demanding than one read. Was Dak running a one read offense in college?

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            One thing that stuck with me during a Tom Brady interview was how he mentioned his ability to read the field, read defenses, and how there has nothing left for a defense to show him that he hasn’t already seen. I would like to think that any competent person will continue to get better at their job the longer that they do it, if they enjoy it. It’s a lot easier to play football if you know exactly what to do, and everything becomes instinctual. I think Siemians future success is in direct correlation to him staying healthy. I look at him is a guy with good arm arm strength, that generally makes good decisions, and processes the leadership skills to be a Quarterback in the NFL. Unfortunately you don’t get to see all those positives if you’re prone to injury.

          • GrizzlyB

            Yeah, SMA makes some interesting points about how if Siemian understands the offense and how to break down film, he should be doing better, and has thus hit his ceiling, but it doesn’t really stand up to the common sense of people getting more comfortable/better at something the more they do it. Hypothetically, that would apply to Lynch as well, but while he’s still learning the offense, wasn’t getting off his first read at all, and has to clean up his godawful mechanics, Siemian has to worry about… well, none of that rudimentary stuff. He has to be more consistent and see the field quicker and improve in the red zone and the right reaction to pressure (i.e. standing in to throw the ball vs. throwing it away vs. eating the sack), yes, but those are things he has to polish and improve from what he’s already capable of, not learn wholesale. I also think that’s a veritable laundry list of things that workable young QBs have to improve. The biggest criticism of him I generally see is accuracy (imo, it’s red zone, but w/e), but current starters who were drafted in 2008 or later and had lower completion % in their first year starting are: Andrew Luck (54.1%), Derek Carr (58.1%), Ryan Tannehill (58.3%), Andy Dalton (58.1%), Matthew Stafford (53.3%), Jameis Winston (58.3%), and Blake Bortles (58.9%). Matt Ryan also started higher his rookie year (61.1%), but was lower in his second (58.3%). Granted, I don’t know whether or not all of these guys had mechanical issues to work past that solved all of their accuracy issues from their rookie years, but boy wouldn’t it be something if they, almost to a man, all improved their mechanics in one offseason after a year of starting games (Bortles excepted)?

            I’ll also go ahead and disagree with any notion that Lynch played similarly well to Siemian. I’m ignoring TDs and INTs thrown and stats based off them due to Lynch’s small sample size and differing game situations. Their completion percentages were close, but that’s about it (I’ll also mention that DT made two of the best catches I’ve ever seen from him on poor Lynch passes — take just those two away (obviously every QB has fluctuations like this, but just to illustrate the margin we’re dealing with, here), and Lynch has a 56.6% completion rating). Siemian had a full 1.0 more YPA than Lynch, had 1.7 more YPC (not an important stat, per se, but gives you an idea where QBs are throwing), and Siemian, despite throwing ~6 times as many passes was sacked only ~3.5 times as much. I think QBR factors in TDs and INTs, but I’m not sure (and it’s a made-up stat by ESPN to try and give Brady a leg up over Manning in at least one statistical category, imo), but FWIW, Siemian’s 55.8 nearly doubled Lynch’s 28.8. This is all stat-based, and is ignoring what is, imo, a pretty one-sided eye test.

            I like reminding people of this, too, because I think it’s funny: before last season, Lynch was supposedly a perfect fit for the Kubiak offense, because the simplified and half-field reads in the famously QB-friendly offense would assuage Lynch’s rookie curve and concerns about his intelligence, and his athleticism would be ideal for executing bootlegs and throwing on the run. So take all of that away to implement an Erhardt-Perkins offense (which, unlike the WCO, actually is complex)(not to imply that a WCO isn’t complex to a layperson — it certainly is, and it’s verbiage-heavy, but as long as you know the verbiage, every playcall describes what every player is doing: simple, as far as these things go, if you ask me), and suddenly Broncos Country is just waiting to unleash the Kraken.

            tl;dr- pxaton lol

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I’ve thought about this a lot, and I think it’s best summed up thusly… Siemian does everything the right way- He’s mentally astute, he studies the playbook and film, his mechanics are good, he’s a “leader of men”…but he still produces mediocre results due to an aversion to risk, an inability to read coverages and inaccurate throws/ball placement. If he already does so much correctly, both mentally and physically, by what mechanical and/or mental adjustment should we expect him to improve his game/production? Lynch, on the other hand, needs to clean up footwork, learn the playbook, learn how to drop back from under center and, damn it, get his shit together, right? He’s a mess, they say. Except his on field production (small sample size) wasn’t far behind Siemian’s. So while it’s easy to see how Lynch could get better, it’s very difficult to find similar room for improvement in Siemian. That’s why so many independent brains have come to the conclusion that Siemian doesn’t have much room to grow.

          • Carsonic

            Would you consider the possibility that the main part of what contributed to Siemian’s flawed play last year was the pain and limitation caused by his injury, and a full recovery could be the factor which allows for his improvement?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I’m sure the shoulder injury affected his performance, but it’s hard to say how much. He was never a productive QB in college either (more INTs than TDs in his college career), which I guess could also be blamed on injuries, but I’ve never really seen anything to make me believe he is a special player. We can’t excuse his mediocrity because of injury and then pretend like he will be healthy next year when he never really has been healthy. So either he’s mediocre because of injuries, which are likely to happen again, or he’s mediocre due to a lack of ability. If we’re writing off Romo because of his proneness to injury, shouldn’t the same logic should apply to Siemian?

          • PiperAR

            Siemian has already gone far beyond his college production. Why is this still brought up?
            “Yeah, but Terrell Davis was never a feature back in college and was only a 6th round draft pick” said no one ever.

          • drewthorn

            You do a good job of articulating Siemian’s red flags. Most can’t in any meaningful way.

            I’m not sure Kubiak ever addressed Siemian without using the phrase “does a great job protecting the football.” If he was coached to be risk averse, maybe he deserves a sticker instead of a demerit. At the very least, I’d say the jury is still out on that part of his game.

            I think, generally speaking, most Siemian detractors ignore some of his best qualities. The kid is years ahead in poise, innate instincts, and passing nuance. He also made some big time throws at key moments, which is no small thing. Of those 4 plus traits, the passing nuance is the only one that falls under the realm of coaching.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            What his preseason games from 2015, when he was first coming into the league.

            He routinely aired it out deep to Fowler, Taylor, and some guy name Louks.

            Perhaps that’s what he looks like when he is not constantly told to protect the ball.

          • PiperAR

            Aversion to risk: Kubiak and his staff asked Siemian to protect the ball. We shall see what McCoy asks of him, and what Siemian delivers.
            Inability to read coverage: seems like the most obvious and most likely area of improvement
            Inaccurate throws/ball placement: to predict future improvement or lack of, it’s necessary to ascertain if he actually is inaccurate, or inconsistently accurate. If he does sometimes do what’s necessary to deliver an accurate ball, consistency can be coached, if the athlete is coachable. It seems odd to me that consistently good mechanics delivers inaccurate ball placement.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            You’re probably right. That said, I think the thing with him is that, well, he was way better than I expect most people thought he would be, It was a little shocking, and a pleasant surprise.

            Now, is he gonna be Andrew Luck or Brett Favre? Of course not. Then again, how many Patriot fans were highly skeptical of Tom Brady back when Belichick threw him in there in place of Bledsoe? And you’ve got to admit, Brady has gotten better and better as the years have gone by. Granted, it’s a bit ridiculous and and pretty unfair to compare his experience with Brady’s. I guess my point is, No, I’m not excited about the guy (he’s no Andrew Luck, after all). I expect him to fail, but I am certainly willing to see how it plays out and would be very happy if he could prove me (most all of us, I’d guess) very wrong.

        • Carsonic

          Literally lol.

  • Nick

    I’m starting to wonder whether the Broncos should have held off on signing Domata Peko until a couple other NT dominoes fell.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/842424780657709057

    • RSH, Esq.

      I hope that the Broncos draft a nose tackle, who will be here four years and not cast aside for a ninth wide receiver. I think Peko will be an excellent mentor for a rookie nose tackle and be part of the leadership contingent called upon to fill that void left by DeMarcus Ware’s retirement.

      • Sparks

        Maybe Peko can mentor Peko?

      • Royalwithcheese

        You have anyone in mind? There aren’t many options.

        • RSH, Esq.

          I would be fine with Jaleel Johnson, Jarron Jones, Carlos Watkins, Dalvin Tomlinson, Elijah Qualls in rounds three through five, or Josh Augusta (if he manages his weight), CU’s Josh Tupou, or Stevie Tu’ikolovatu in later rounds.

          • PiperAR

            But are any of them TRUE NTs? Those are rare.

          • GrizzlyB

            If we’re talking NTs, throw Tanzel Smart and Eddie Vanderdoes in there for the mid-round section, imo. Also, for some reason I have Watkins’ name written down as a DE for us, which means I see him as versatile and that’s a good thing — I think.

    • Ralph Vacchiano’s article is worth a read.

      https://twitter.com/RVacchianoSNY/status/842439045896638467

    • The Color Orange

      Apparently he’s still thinking he can get more than $10 million per year. http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/03/16/report-johnathan-hankins-looking-for-10-million-per-year/

      • RSH, Esq.

        Many Wall Street bankers were impressed with his investment and financial savvy during his offseason internships in Manhattan.

  • Nick
    • Wonder what Watson will get?

      • Yahmule

        I think he’s looking for roughly double that.

        • FarAwayBroncoFan

          Should we retain him?

          • Yahmule

            I love the guy and he loves Colorado. I’m still holding out hope that we can bring him back. Ware’s departure means Edabali isn’t necessarily a Watson replacement. It’s true the draft is deep in edge rushers, but we’re stronger there than anywhere else. I don’t think we’ll draft one high unless the value is significant.

          • FarAwayBroncoFan

            I think he could shine if given the opportunity,

    • That’s a little less than the right of first refusal tender for a RFA. So, about in line with what he would have made if he had been tendered.

  • bradley

    Good article by Albert Breer on the disfunction in Washington
    http://mmqb.si.com/mmqb/2017/03/16/washington-redskins-nfl-dysfunction-scot-mccloughan-dan-snyder-bruce-allen

    PS NOT the Trump Washiington

    • Yahmule

      The disagreement over locking up Cousins earlier is an internal debate many teams have. Some people here were saying we should have extended Oz sooner because we could have retained him before his contract was up for a much lower rate.

      The problem with this argument, especially if you’re a contender, is allocating all that cap space to a player who won’t see the field for a meaningful snap if all goes as planned. There is a salary cap and the days of QB depth charts that read Montana/Young/Bono are long gone.

      In the Broncos situation, they needed money for role players to chase a championship. They had already devoted a major resource to acquire Brock (a second round pick that could have been a guy like Lavonte David), but it didn’t pay dividends until year four. It would have been hard to justify paying him more than his rookie contract given cap constraints and roster needs.

      • Kyle Milligan

        You make a great point on the allocation of resources(cap or draft).
        If I understand, the broncos had choices:
        1. to lock brock up early, for less than he signed for in houston. This would have counted toward their cap in 2015 when he was a backup?
        2. ( what they did;) take a risk and let a QB desperate team drive up the price. This would allow for less “wasted” cap space for one season.

        I would have to ask how they used the cap room that year, and if they were strapped at the time.
        Hindsight is telling me they did the right thing, since boobie brock has done close to nil since he left the tutoring of manning and kubiak.

        But what the fuck do I know?

  • RSH, Esq.
    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      From this we can safely conclude that Vance Joseph is both alive and able to see.

  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.
    • Geez that seems like a pretty cold tweet to put out about AP.

      • Yahmule

        Probably not quite over having to tag team Asiata and McKinnon in 2014.

  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.

    I have coveted a Brian Westbrook, Eric Metcalf, or Darren Sproles playing for the Broncos for a long time.

    https://twitter.com/nflnetwork/status/842420269843116032

    • Nick

      I’ve coveted that ever since Shanny made the disgraceful, inexcusable decision to draft Maurice Clarett when Sproles was on the board–who of course went to a division rival.

      • Yahmule

        Even Brandon Jacobs would have been nice.

  • S Smith

    King Dunlap’s charges dismissed, but troubling details of his past have emerged. The Broncos are considering him for left tackle according to sources.

    • RSH, Esq.

      I hope that Mr. Dunlap gets some help to treat his anger management before he makes a regrettable decision resulting in serious bodily harm or death to another and/or himself.

    • Yahmule

      IMO, a 31 year old man with this pattern of behavior seems more egregious to me than an 18 year old who did one horrible thing. If a video existed of Dunlap putting his hands around his girlfriend’s throat, pinning her up against the wall with her feet dangling, screaming in her face, he would be on the same team as Ray Rice this year.

  • RSH, Esq.
    • He’ll be great with Wade.

      • RSH, Esq.

        He had a career year under Wade Phillips in 2011.

  • Nick

    Now here’s a signing that late wave Al Davis would be proud of.

    https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/842505309180645377

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Interesting. Connor Cook to QB3?

      • Nick

        I find it interesting that they seem to be giving up on Matt McGloin. He looked like a competent backup QB.

        • RSH, Esq.

          He looked like crap in Week 17 against Denver in 2016.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            In fairness, so did Cook.

          • RSH, Esq.

            I thought Cook played much better than McGloin, but both left much to be desired.

          • orangeandblueaussie

            Yeah I thought Cook looked quite good despite playing badly. I’ve had a hard time reconciling that funnily enough

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          I used to think that too. I don’t think he has the demeanor to play quarterback in the NFL. Easily shaken.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            Particularly by Derek Wolfe.

  • RSH, Esq.
    • Nick

      “[D]ating back to Stanford”? Maybe Elway attended some alumni event while McCaffrey was playing there?

      • Yahmule

        Safe to say Elway rooted for father and son during their college careers.

    • Yahmule

      I also enjoyed this about my buddy, Jayon Brown:

      “My favorite player from the UCLA film was linebacker Jayon Brown. Entering the season he was stamped as a street free agent by scouts despite productive game film in 2015. As a senior, Brown looked very much like a three-down defender and was constantly around the ball stuffing the run, covering the pass or running down ball handlers in pursuit. Vertically challenged at under 6-feet tall, Brown will fall into the draft’s final day but will play on Sundays.”

      • BlackKnigh

        Is he an ILN or OLB? I think Denver will draft an ILB and maybe an OLB.

        • Yahmule

          He played inside. UCLA has sent Anthony Barr, Eric Kendricks and Myles Jack to the NFL the last three years. They’re becoming another contender for the title of Linebacker U.

          • BlackKnigh

            Thanks.

    • Yahmule

      Great observations by Tony Pauline in this piece. Like him, I was also very surprised that Utah DE Hunter Dimick got a Combine snub. 13.5 sacks and 19.5 TFL doesn’t get you invited? This kid was an intense, super productive baby-faced killer for the Utes. He’s going to make somebody happy.

      http://www.standard.net/image/2014/09/26/630x_a16-9_b0_q80_p1/Hunter-Dimick.jpg

      • GrizzlyB

        I was combing through lists of DEs and DTs last night, looking for guys we could play at the 4/5-tech, and Dimick was one of the guys whose proportions warranted a closer look. It’s conceivable that he could bulk up and man Malik Jackson’s old spot, but unfortunately for us, I think he does profile more as a 4-3 strong side DE.

        • Yahmule

          He doesn’t appear that impressive physically, but he tests pretty well. He looks like he has a pretty solid base, but his arms are really short and teams will ding him for that. I like the way he uses his hands and sets the edge. He’s a small town kid who takes great pride in his work ethic. You wish he was bigger and especially longer, but I think he will get drafted and make someone’s team.

    • drewthorn

      Gonna have to move up…

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Maybe so, but it’s always surprising how RBs are undervalued on draft day.

        • drewthorn

          It would have been helpful for Cook to have a better combine.

    • gobroncos

      “He’s a dream prospect for an innovative offensive mind.”

      Does McCoy qualify as this?

      • RSH, Esq.

        Absolutely. Have you seen how he used Danny Woodhead? Go watch the Chargers-Broncos Week 17 game in 2015 for one sample.

  • ohiobronco
    • Rhett Rothberg

      Punter

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        Be careful what you say about Todd Sauerbrun Bro.

      • bradley

        Bob Scarpitto

      • ohiobronco

        Colquitt was paid like a great punter, does that count?

      • gobroncos

        No love for Mike Horan?

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Great hair

    • S Smith

      Punter? We’ve had good ones, but I can’t think of any great ones.

      • FarAwayBroncoFan

        Rouen was pretty good. I remember Horan. Don’t remember if he was good.

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          Horan was 1st team All Pro in ’88. Better than Rouen, as I remember.

        • Yahmule

          Horan was one of the last coffin corner guys. I thought he gave us an advantage because he was a lefty and the spin would be different for the returners. In retrospect, I’m fairly sure none of them noticed.

    • Royalwithcheese

      What about OG? Are we counting Stink?

      • RSH, Esq.

        Louis Vasquez was great in 2013.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Keith Bishop was pretty good, too, if we’re including Schlereth-level players (which I mean as a compliment).

    • Nick

      If I were to use a very high standard of “great”, I suppose I could say WR, G, and interior DL.

      • ohiobronco

        So a standard of HoF or at least in the HoF conversation?

        • Nick

          That’s about right. I’m not sure if Nalen, Gradishar & Mecklenburg have been in HoF conversation but they should be.

          A lower standard would include Rod Smith, Stinky, and several Orange Crush DL as great.

          • S Smith

            Mecklenburg not great? I don’t see how.

          • Nick

            Oh I definitely think Meck is great. I just don’t recall him being in the HoF conversation, unfortunately.

          • Yahmule

            Gradishar used to get mentioned frequently, but Paul Zimmerman went out of his way to shit on his candidacy at every opportunity. Louis Wright was talked about as future Hall of Famer routinely during broadcasts. I’m not surprised he was snubbed. Bad hands and an unusually humble personality for a cornerback cost him votes. I’m kind of surprised Mecklenberg didn’t get more support. His versatility got him a lot of attention during his playing days.

          • Hank Mardukis

            Nalen should absolutely be in the HOF discussion, but most likely will never be. He was consistently the best lineman on numerous lines that paved the way for a deadly rushing attack season after season.

          • Yahmule

            He didn’t make any friends among voters with the Orange Hush business. Zimmerman had the unimpeachable résumé, but they weren’t going to take that from a borderline Hall guy.

          • Yahmule

            Actually, I think Rod Smith qualifies as a great player in team and league history.

            He only played 11 more games than Michael Irvin, but he had almost 100 more receptions (849 to 750) and he scored five more touchdowns.

            He was a terrific blocker and a team leader by word and deed. He was an UDFA who caught a game winning touchdown for his first career reception. He literally carried the team on his back in ’00 and ’01.

      • Royalwithcheese

        Trevor Pryce was pretty great.

        • Nick

          I like Pryce a lot, but I think you have to use a real high standard of “great” or this question gets real boring.

          • VonSwenson

            Four pro bowls and a first-team all-pro nod is pretty great, though.

    • Nick

      I also want to know if fans in cities that suffered through relocations can claim multiple teams. Can Ravens fans claim Baltimore Colts, can Texans fans claim Houston Oilers?

      • ohiobronco

        I would say team = franchise. You can be a fan of both the Oilers and the Texans but they are different franchises.

    • Hank Mardukis

      Upchurch was before my time so unless you include Darien Gordon, I’ll say KR/PR.

      • Alaskan

        Trindon Holliday was pretty exciting, except when he forgot the ball.

      • ElwayIsGod7

        Darien Gordon was the shit for a few years…what ever happened to that guy?

    • drewthorn

      The best part of this exercise is remembering which positions were held by guys in the best-ever conversation. QB, RB, TE, LT, NT, ILB, OLB, CB, S, PR, K.

    • ElwayIsGod7

      Punter. I cant’ remember Denver having a great punter.