Providing a home for those wishing to read and write insightful commentary on the Denver Broncos and more
For perspective, the right of first refusal tender is about $1.8M this year, so the guaranteed money is roughly equal to that tender.
If I’m not mistaken, RFA tenders become fully guaranteed once the player signs the tender.
“Mahomes is not likely a Day 1 starter in the NFL but certainly worth a first-round selection as a potential big hit as a franchise quarterback.”
You were right that he sounds a lot like Lynch. So if Mahomes really is a first round pick, do you think Watson and Trubisky go in the first as well? What about Kiser?
I think I need to go back on my previous statements, where I thought 4 would go in the first. I think the smart bet is 2. However, I’m not going back on my bold/stupid prediction: I have the Saints/Browns drafting Peterman at 32. I think Peterman is Drew Brees light. Smart, good pocket movement, natural accuracy.
I think Mahomes will be off the board by 13.
I think Trubisky is off the board by 23.
In my mind Trubisky is sliding while Mahomes is creeping up. Trubisky may go before Mahomes, but I think his zone of selection is actually larger.
I think Watson will be a second.
I think Kizer will be a third. I think Davis Webb will be drafted by Kizer. Kizer has the look, but that’s about it.
After Watson ball velocity came out, I went back and watched his Clemson v Alabama games. His arm strength is going to be an issue in the NFL There was one particular play where he wasn’t able to split the safeties, which yielded an interception in the endzone. I kept waiting for him to whip a pass into tight coverage, and only saw soft, touch lobs.
I like your takes and draft analysis, ISWT. Thanks for sharing during this pre-draft/FA period. I agree with what you say about Watson but I believe he has the best intangibles in this whole QB class. He’s a proven winner and has played on the collegiate game’s biggest stage…twice. I think that matters. I think he’ll be the best QB in this class and whoever he goes to will be quite happy with him. If the Broncos hadn’t drafted PL last year, I’d be on board to try and get Watson drafted. Especially because I think you’re right, that he’ll slide and be a second day pick. On the second day, he’ll offer incredible value for the pick.
As there are no surefire QBs this draft, you definitely could be right! Watson no doubt has the most impressive college resume.
Wonder if @MarsLineman is lurking and willing to share some science knowledge on this year’s crop of QB’s? 🙂
Or M. Watson.
Hi guys! I’m still lurking (after a brief absence), and have started reviewing tape of this year’s draft-relevant OTs. I also took a quick look at Menelik Watson’s tape, and I think he’s basically to man-blocking what Donald Stephenson is to zone-blocking; someone who (when healthy) excels at the specific skills required for effective run-blocking within the appropriate system. I also think that, like Stephenson, he’s never going to be very effective in one-on-one pass-blocking situations. But if the team locates a quality pass-blocking LT in the draft (I think there’s exactly one available), he could be an effective straight-ahead run-blocker. I’ll have more to say once I review some more tape
Thanks, Mars. And the quality pass-blocking LT would be???
Bolles. And he’s got some issues with run-blocking (lacking in posterior lumbar efficiency). But he’s the only lineman I’ve scouted who possesses 2 out of 3 of the requisite areas of OT-relevant efficiency: medial-posterior thoracic, and medial-anterior lumbar. Basically, he’s got the center-core strength, balance, and foot quickness to stay in front of rushers, even if he doesn’t have a ton of straight-ahead leg-drive
Good to see you posting man. Congrats on the model!
Thanks! Once I get over this next hump, you’ll probably be hearing more from me (for better or worse 😉
I took a very brief look at the top-projected QBs and came away unimpressed. But I would need to take a closer look to be able to form any strong opinions.
And to be honest, scouting lineman is more relevant to my current research (only just now finally completing the full, detailed biomechanical model- 1 year behind the original timetable). I’ll try to carve out some time after I finish reviewing tape from this season (and I first need to post a retrospective on my preseason predictions, now that I can fully analyze my mistakes)
And celebrate your successes. I appreciate any insight you care to share. Congrats on completeing your model!
Thanks! All the areas are mapped, but full-scale integration is still a work-in-progress, which is why lineman are now excellent targets for analysis. So I’m still not technically done, but I’ll accept the congrats anyway 😉
I’m almost two months late on this one, but Ryan Murphy appeared to be caught up in a larger wave of bullshit.
Wow, he got screwed over…
There’s so much to that story. The fact his name got splashed in the paper even though the cops said he wasn’t involved. The confirmation bias and other logical fallacies of people saying stupid things like the Superbowl is “the largest human-trafficking venue on the planet.” The almost criminal disregard by Inside Edition. I feel all mad now.
The one bright light is the surprisingly in-depth article by SI – apparently “Journalism” isn’t dead.
The Broncos ran outside zone on a staggering 52.9% of their run plays in 2016. Mike McCoy and Jeff Davidson called outside zone only 14.9% of the time in San Diego last season, and Bill Musgrave called outside zone 14.1% of the time. I think it is safe to say that the running game will be much different conceptually and schematically in 2017.
For those of us (me) who may not know, what’s the basic difference between man and power?
A power run generally involves pulling one of the guards and sometimes a tackle, while traditional man blocking is just straight ahead mano-e-mano blocking.
And zone is where you take the guy in front of you as you stretch the play one way or the other. Which I guess is just man. But sometimes you drop that guy to get to the next level. I assume that’s part of man or or power. Double team chip tot he linebacker.
Which is why we got Leary.
It’s like have your gf run off, with some richer dude, and then come crawling back when the money runs out. F you Brock! Go brush your teeth with bleach before talking to us!
Surely a gentleman takes her back, has sex with her one more time and then changes the locks the next day while she’s at work. Not sure exactly how this would apply to Brock.
This applies in the STD you’d probably get.
I can’t blame you for trying. We’re trying to make it too. We’ve got one little hangup. We can make it without you.
So welcome back Brockie, to the poor side of town.
Johnny Rivers took her back. John Elway, not so much.
A fair point:
“If G.M. John Elway truly believed that Osweiler was
worth $16 million per year as of last year at this time, surely Elway
would cough up less than a million now to get him back.”
But that was before seeing what he looked like after a year of starting, before seeing what Siemian looked life after a year of starting, and before spending a first round draft pick on a QB. If Osweiler didn’t even look as good as Siemian, and you’ve invested a first round pick in a QB, what would be the point of bringing Osweiler back?
Did he even look as good as Lynch?
Elway could make Brook call him “Daddy”.
You could argue Bill O’Brien is a horrible coach, and that Oz still has some potential. The “drama” will probably make this impossible.
I think other teams could do a lot worse than offering a late round pick and picking up maybe 3 million of his salary. Even if he doesn’t start, he would be cheap backup with 20 games of not horrible starting experience, which is tough to find.
From his point of view his best bet is to go somewhere with an established QB, lay low for a while and learn the offense inside and out, then be ready when his chance inevitably comes.
If Elway doesn’t think he’s much of an upgrade over our two current options though, I don’t see why he would even entertain the issue, especially considering all the drama that would be created by such a move.
Also, my theory from the beginning was that Elway never had any intention to sign Os. He made the offer knowing that some team would out-bid them and potentially to drive up his price. I don’t know if that’s realistic, but I just never got the idea Elway was heartbroken when he left.
I don’t know if a agree. In a recent presser Elway said that they had intended to go with Brock. Once that changed they drafted Pax. Could just be bullshitting, but I personally believe Elway had planned for Brock to take over at a cost-controlled price around $12M.
He appeared visibly irritated when asked about Brock going to Houston. I think Elway was fully ready to pay him $16M.
Yeah, I don’t think you bid up a guy that you don’t want hoping to drive his price up for others. If you end up getting stuck, you’re screwed. I think they honestly wanted him and thought he’d improve in a starting role with more experience under his belt.
If Brent stays, we probably don’t move up to get Paxton Lynch. If that happens, Cowboys get him, and probably don’t draft Dak Prescott. They don’t draft Dak, Tony probably doesn’t lose his starting job after Lynch most likely doesn’t play as well as Dak did. Cowboys consequently don’t consider trading Tony. Texans still don’t have a QB and don’t have the hope of getting Tony. Who knows where Dak goes (maybe they draft Dak). Broncos probably draft another QB later on, probably 4th round our later (which means they might pick up Dak, but doubtful).
Who would the Broncos have drafted at 31 last year had they not moved up to pick Lynch?
It’s an interesting scenario that has some butterfly effect. Cowboys probably don’t do as well as they did (but still make the playoffs). Broncos may or may not have done better. The way Braxton sucked last year, it’s doubtful he has much better luck in Denver. Maybe a little because he knew the system and Kubes can coach a QB like nobody’s business. Maybe we make the playoffs. Maybe not.
Here’s my draft preview from last year. I had A’Shawn Robinson next on my board, but I had also assumed that Jarran Reed would be gone, and he wasn’t. Those guys would have been in the discussion, as would have been Vernon Butler.
I think the Broncos were interested, but there is also an element of price enforcement that takes place anytime multiple parties are bidding on a resource. It generally develops quite organically in that one (or more) side will bid the maximum amount they’re willing to pay, even though that figure is known to be below perceived market value. It’s not a bad description of the Broncos approach to free agency in general.
Fascinating application of the butterfly principle. Who knows! Fun to think about though.
But … what does Brent do in 2016? Does he pull it together, and play OK for the Broncos? Or does he suck so badly he is replaced by Siemian after a couple of games? Presumably he’d have made it through training camp as #1. That would mean that Siemian wouldn’t have had the head start that he ended up with, and probably he wouldn’t have looked as good as he did. The Broncos would have probably lost a few more games, have a higher draft pick, and we would be moaning about what a weak QB class it was.
So, in almost very way, it worked out better for the Broncos and us that Osweiner left. (Unless he would have become a star if he stayed, which seems unlikely.)
Signing Osweiler also meant, at a minimum, no CJ Anderson, and may also have meant no extensions with Marshall and Sanders.
That’s incredibly reckless if our bluff gets called.
I think most of the drama would be because we willingly gave life to a three headed quarterback, not because one heads answered to Brent.
Along these lines, should Tones Romones not play out, I wonder if J. Elway kicks the tires on Kaepernick…. Who you would think could also be acquired with a 50% off coupon….
I don’t see Kaep as an upgrade over Siemian, so that’s not likely, IMO.
Different dudes… But at the right price, I’d take the guy that has played in playoff games over the guy who can’t get in them….
But like I’ve said, this game of “I told you so” will take an agonizingly long time to play out….
Didn’t you tell us letting Oz go was a critical mistake? It took like eight months for that situation to play out and it wasn’t very agonizing for Bronco fans. ;~)
To be precise, I was critical of the team not extending Brock prior to training camp in 2015…
Given that he has won more playoff games than either of the QB’s on our current roster, I would agree that the agony is still ongoing…. 😉
That was a year ago. He’s sucked since then.
So would it be exceedingly arrogant for Denver to draft Sidney Jones at 51?
I think targeting Jones is a good idea, but I would probably want him to slide in round three.
I think he’ll drop to day 3, similar to Marcus Lattimore a few years ago, who went 131st (4th round) to SF. The problem for Jones isn’t just whether he’ll miss his rookie year, but whether or not he’ll ever be what he was before the injury. Throw in the fact that about one out of every five players in the top 75 is a CB, and there’s just no reason to take him before day 3.
Yeah, I hadn’t really considered the depth angle.
I wonder what’s up with Achilles injuries. Genetic predisposition, maybe? Certain things blow an ACL or separate a shoulder, but Achilles issues seem random and unprovoked.
Should be valued as the 6th in the comp pick formula, but Peko will cancel him out.
Wade a recruiter! That D should be pretty stout
JT going to try real hard now
“I don’t really have any handicaps, anything that will hold me back,” Thomas said. “… I feel really good. I know that I’ll be able to play at the highest level I’ve played in my career.”
Highest level ever played in his career? Okay. Was Peyton Manning from 2013 cloned and signing with the Dolphins?
Nope. NO PMFM in Miami last I checked
The details on Kalil’s contract, turns out it’s much like Okung’s deal last year… really one yr. with a 4 yr. option. First yr. pays $13M as opposed to Okung’s $8M (with bonuses).
Damn. I didn’t realize he’s only 25.
He also didn’t pout when it didn’t come together for him as a receiver and he became a special teams ace, similar to what Latimer has tried to do in Denver. We shouldn’t sit around waiting for Reggie McKenzie to shoot himself in the foot. It’s probably not going to happen very often.
Yeah…how come we didn’t go after this guy? PR-KR is a huge need of ours, and this guy would fill in the slot nicely.
My thoughts exactly. I like Fowler and Sunshine but this guy would be an automatic #3 for us and his return skills speak for themselves – lead the NFL in return average 3 of the last 4 years. I’m on the draft CMC train, but even his return skills wouldn’t touch this guys. Raiders got better with this signing.
No, he wouldn’t necessarily have been a number 3 for us. He’s a straight line burner on the outside, and unless we think Manny is going to move inside to the slot, we’re pretty set there.
He’s dangerous with the ball in his hands, but sucks at actually getting in position to get it in his hands first. He was really promising as a rookie, but has never developed.
I see what you’re saying but I still think he would have been an upgrade to our WR core after the top 2. But if he signed for the vet min, his KR skills alone would be worth that.
I saw him return a punt, once. Or try to return it anyway. His misjudged the ball and it ended up bouncing over him. Found plenty of punt return clips of his on Madden, though!
Seriously, he’s not a WR, and he’s not a PR. He’s a kickoff return specialist — if he’s getting paid anything more than the minimum, it’s too much.
Well, his agent hasn’t put out the details so very likely it’s for the min. or slightly more.
Agreed. It doesn’t have specifics but the article said it was for 2 years and could be voided to one, FWIW. So, obviously it wasn’t some monster contract.
He’s also a gunner. I think they know what they signed.
He can’t run routes, which makes him a very poor guy for the slot, IMO. He basically just returns kickoffs.
We can get one of those guys on a team-friendly rookie contract, who can also contribute out of the slot and/or the backfield in this draft. I am glad that we did not pursue Patterson.
All signs point to the Broncos seriously targeting return men in the draft. You like to get those guys as rookies if possible because even the best returners tend to peak early.
New Beast Mode?
Mike Garafolo included what I called on Twitter the dreaded “up to” conditional. Wouldn’t be surprised if the grand majority of that $2.55 not guaranteed is locked up in a workout bonus, per-gamers, & incentives.
Not a bad prove-it payday for an aging, recently-injured RB.
He’ll turn 27 this summer. I know RBs age quickly, but he could have several good years left if he gets/stays in shape.
He’s only 16 months older than CJ
He’s only 8 months older than CJ…
Not sure what you’re getting at. Lacy is not old, but no doubt aging as RBs go. Making cuts on a 240 lbs frame probably accelerates the process. Lacy has significant wear and tear; unclear to me if he makes it to 30 in the league. I do think as SMA says, that he has a few productive seasons left.
Lacy: 788 career rushes, 101 receptions
CJ: 448 career rushes, 75 receptions
That if you think Lacey is old (or aging), you should think CJ is old as well. I don’t really buy the argument that since CJ has been frequently injured and thus seen fewer touches means he is more likely to stay healthy/productive moving forward.
Talk to me after the season. 🙂 I may very well call CJ aging then.
We’re all aging.
Tell me about it. My chest hair is turning grey and white. I took off my shirt in the bathroom the other day and I looked like an elderly Sasquatch.
I’m lucky. 38 yrs old and I’ve found a total of like 4 grey hairs whose existence cannot be confirmed.
I’m jealous. I started finding white hairs at 27.
I hereby decree that this shit is gross and needs to stop before it gets out of hand….
Are we talking ear and nostril hair now? Gentlemen over 40, I beseech you, clean that shit up!
And unruly ear hair.
What’s your situation now? I’m not yet 27, but I’ve found plenty. Of course, I had a few even when I was in high school, so I’m not that worried, but it’s annoying. My hair color must be prone to going white or something, because I know I sat next to two other guys in high school with the same color whom I noticed had more white hairs than me.
Not bad. Seems to just be a consistent 5-10 at a time.
Found my first grey hair senior year in high school.
At 40, I’m now fully salt & pepper.
As am I at 38
Guess I am lucky. I will soon be 69 and have almost all of my natural hair color. A little less hair – but who is counting….
Maybe you guys use your brain more than I do and that activity turns your hair white faster.
I found my first grays in high school as well (or the girl sitting behind me in English class found them). Somewhere between 27 and 30 is where the salt started to outnumber the pepper. Now 39, and it’s pretty difficult to distinguish what my original hair color was.
I’m well on my way to this by my mid-40s:
Coincidentally, I’m considering a change of screen name to, in the spirit of a Wheel-of-Fortune style “before and after,” RogerSterlingArcher.
I’m doing it right above the neck. I’m just graying at the temples in that distinguished kind of Reed Richards way. I also went with the widow’s peak, which, quite frankly, is the only way to lose your hair. That’s been gradual enough that I can still wear my hair long and I’m going to take advantage of that as long as I can. The main point of this presentation is I’m lucky I’m already married.
“Andre Dawson has a bruised knee and is listed as day-to-day (pause). Aren’t we all?”
The great Vin Scully during a broadcast in 1991~
This isn’t directed at you, but there’s a definite catch 22 for Running backs. Either you’ve carried the ball a lot and have a lot of touches and thus are due for a downturn/injuries, or you haven’t ever carried the ball a lot and thus haven’t shown you are capable of doing so, and will likely face a downturn/injuries when given a full load.
Which is why the average career span of an NFL running back is around three seasons.
Lacy also had more carries in college: 355 to 198. CJ is actually extremely low mileage, which is mainly by necessity. He’s not a special athlete and his body type was never likely to withstand a heavy workload. Both guys carry some bad weight, but I think CJ kind of needs it to have enough ballast to run inside. He could start channeling Jack LaLanne and he’s still never going to be a guy who consistently beats NFL defenders to the corner.
Interesting they signed Lacy after visits with JC and AP.
I wonder if a few other RBs start to sign now. I know this probably won’t be popular here, and I doubt it would happen, but I’d love to see the Broncos sign Jamal Charles.
Like everything else, the price would have to be right, but I’d be down with signing Charles. I know it’s a big if, but IF he stays healthy, he’s a top 10 back in this league. Add in his receiving and you could argue maybe even top 5 back.
People forget that Lynch’s stock was way down when Seattle acquired him. We could have easily had him, but it was more important to Josh that he gift wrap a fourth round pick to his daddy for Laurence “Tomato Eyes” Maroney.
That’s Pippi Bongstocking, dude.
Man, I like dreadlocks, but this is just silly.
Thanks for bringing back that bad memory. He’s definitely on my All-time Scrubs Team.
Jamaal Charles still plans to visit with the Seahawks despite Lacy’s signing.
??? Don’t they already have Rawls and Procise? Why would they also want Charles?
Both have had injury issues. Thinking they are going to a committee back approach by signing Lacy.
Fantasy football aficionados groaned at the Lynch signing. Rawls and Procise were both attractive targets in a two man split. Now, none of these guys figure to get enough touches to make a big impact.
They’ll have to quadruple the amount of skittles each game.
Drop the mic and back away.
The struggle is real
Maybe he can compete at LT for them.
Goddamn, Chiefs. They let Poe walk only to pay Logan above market at nose tackle.
Do we want Poe?
Seems we’ve gone the less expensive route with Peko and Kerr.
I want Poe. But it ain’t happenin.
Sounds like they really like Kerr hope he lives up to the expectations.
Kerr projected to start as well? That’s surprising. So Wolfe/Kerr/Peko in the base odd front? Doesn’t speak well of Crick if he’s unseated by a non-tendered RFA castoff from Indy.
Crick was never meant to play first and second down. He’s an interior pass rusher. He was forced to be a three down DE when Walker was sidelined in the preseason and he was routinely washed out vs the run. If he can stay rested during the game and come in for passing downs, I think he’ll have a great year.
Poe seems to be this years Potroast. Unloved and unwanted.
Wait.. what? Bennie Logan ain’t even thought good. Massive pay day for a NT.
I think he’s pretty good. Also versatile, fit well in different schemes over last few seasosn in Philly. Last yr. with him in lineup Eagles gave up less than 90 yds. rush/game. The handful of games he was out that no. ballooned to 140 yds. rush/game.
He’s good… but $8m/year good? That’s a big lift…
I totally agree. And then there are guys who are not good, like Ryan Kalil, getting paid even more.
I think that Reid made the right football move and told Poe to pound sand. He then realized that he didn’t have anyone to stand next to on the sidelines to make him look not so out-of-shape and hurriedly made Logan an offer he couldn’t refuse.
Maybe Logan has a better arm
They probably like his mutant healing ability.
I imagine that would be useful in the NFL. “Oh look, he snapped his femur in half, he’ll be out for a couple plays.”
I think he can jump higher….
Masons 5 takeaways from JE and VJ
I like that Denver and Houston are in borderline collusion that Jerry Jones can go eff himself.
Some recent tweets from Andrew Mason on topics that we have broached the past few days and weeks.
P.S. I expect them to draft a player in Rounds 1-7
I just hope they don’t reach with the Mr. Irrelevant pick.
Lol..that may be the one its allowed! Nice one
I don’t know. I’m pretty sure they couldn’t reach with pick #252 as well.
Someone on MHR was recently arguing that Siemian was a reach in the 2015 draft. A 7th round comp pick, a reach! This person was dead serious.
I don’t go to MHR as much as I used to.
There is some highly distasteful schadenfreude in people slowly coming to the realization that hard things are hard….
Yeah, frankly as a healthy, top-quintile earning, white male… personally the GOP/Trump policies will treat me great.
Unfortunately, I have family and friends that may not fare so well.
Just stay young and healthy and you’ll be fine!
And pray for a benevolent overlord/employer.
Exactly, that and I care about the United States and all of her citizens as a whole, heck, all of humanity. I believe in the separation of church and state and this political extremism of singling out women based on religious beliefs is bullshit. Let them decide what they want to do with their bodies and stay out of it. Give them the medical options they choose, not what some self righteous grey haired old man from the bible belt wants.
I hope this kind of thinking expands because the problem is we are often ideological, but those ideologies are rooted in thinking for a day gone by…
We need pragmatics, not ideology. Every man is an island is nice, except for the fact it leads you to a society where you get the Mumbai’s of the world…. Destitute beggars lining streets with Mercedes rolling down them…
When will we understand that in modern times, collectivism is the only way forward? Our complex modern society dangles by the thinnest of threads and it takes every holding it together to keep it that way….
Excellent thoughts, Rhett.
Interesting you mention Mumbai. I lived there for a year, and yes indeed the disparity you describe is pervasive throughout the city. As expats, we lived in buildings where the rent rivaled and exceeded that of Manhattan and yet the veranda overlooked miles of slums with makeshift shacks. These were the same buildings Bollywood’s elite would rent and live in.
Fascinating… I’ve never been, but I’ve read about it and that description has always been illustrative of America’s brand of individualism in our modern times run wild and devolves into a stark stratification of haves and have nots….
Speaker Ryan made the very case that “freedom” is a virtue/value over all else. And of course it’s important… But it’s misplaced…
The USA is the richest country in the entire history of the entire world. How can we not collectively account for some of our most basic requirements for all of our citizens? Yet some would hold to this “take care of yourself” thing… Which I get. But this fails to account for the fact that there WILL ALWAYS be those who cannot or will not. And what do you do with those people? Cast them to the winds? In this country, many say it is a virtue to do so… But to me, that visual of Mumbai is the end result and I’m not sure people understand that…. And I also don’t think they understand the threat it represents to their own way of life…
Or more accurately, like in may poor countries with the few rich, gated communities pop up to segregate themselves from the poor so they don’t have to see it or mingle with it. Gated communities with guards and guns. Gated communities with food and drinking water while the outside is laid waste. That’s what scares me. What I described is similar in that in a high rise apt. you are very well shielded from the outside. They get picked up in their fancy cars in the garage below and drive away without looking out the window, staring at their phones while so many around them suffer. Who wants to live in that world? I sure hope the US doesn’t go that route. I’ve seen it in Venezuela, Indonesia, and in many places, the US.
You’re spot on. Lived it myself in Beijing.
What is interesting is that I’m currently reading a book called the “Righteous Mind”. It makes the analogy of different tastebuds (e.g. sweet, salty, bitter, etc.) in morality, which asserts that there are 5 or 6 “flavors” of morality that all our human brains are biologically hardwired to respond to.
The first 2 are “don’t harm others” and “proportional fairness” (aka, you get out what you put in). Those 2 flavors are strong and universal throughout humanity.
But there are also 3-4 other “tastes” that vary more across cultures (although all humans exhibit the biological hardwiring to some extent) including:
3) “group loyalty” (protect “my group”),
4) “respect for authority/elders”,
5) “sacredness”, and
6) “equity” (everyone does well).
Western, Educated, Industrialized, Rich, Democratic folks (a.k.a. WEIRDos) are relatively unique in humanity. The more WEIRD a person is, the stronger their response to #1/#2/#6… and the weaker their response to #3/ #4/ #5.
WEIRDos are almost “autistic” when it comes to morality, as we have a tough time understanding/internalizing the other moral “tastes” that are more dominant in most other humanity. Western philosophy, like Utilitarianism, etc. are focused almost exclusively on the idea of individual (vs. group) autonomy and harm. This is weird globally.
So western liberals are the most WEIRD globally, and are a tiny minority of total humanity. The poorer, less educated, non-western, less-industrialized, and less democratic people and societies tend to be more “conservative” and respond to a broader palette of morality. For example, respect for elders is huge in many cultures, as is religiousity, etc.
In the US/Western Europe context, conservatives are more balanced across the 6 flavors which may make their political appeals more viscerally and emotionally satisfying. While liberals complain that conservatives are selfish, etc., the broad morality conservatives are responding to is actually MORE group focused… things like loyalty, sacredness, and respect for authority are all about maintaining group competitiveness/cohesion, sometimes at the expense of individual harm/fairness/equity. And the “morally autistic” liberals can’t understand this because we are hung up on the individual harm/fairness/equity points. So if “collectivism” is the answer, conservatives actually may have more compelling moral arguments.
I highly recommend the book… it certainly has given me new thoughts on how to understand/empathize with my more conservative family and friends.
Thanks for the heads up. Just added it to my reading list.
IMO, 3, 4 and 5 become increasingly difficult to reconcile intellectually as institutional corrosion overtakes a culture. Why should anyone continue to place confidence in systems that no longer prioritize their basic intended function? 3, 4 and 5 are also, practically by definition, necessarily harsh in their treatment of out groups. Distrust of the other is central to conservative thought, which is, again practically by definition, ethnocentric.
Yes, we as liberals don’t really get it. But biologically it’s still hardwired in our brains, which is why we get “awed” by the sacredness of nature, instinctively rally around our liberal elders/leaders, and viscerally think loyalty is an important attribute… It’s just not as strong as in conservatives. Yes it’s “groupish” and feeds into things like ethnocentrism, etc… But it’s also just biological, and evolutionarily driven (that’s another part of the book too detailed to get into here)
But it is interesting, that a complete lack of such “groupish” instincts actually results in sociopathy… If only harm and fairness matter to you (a.k.a. Extreme utilitarianism), it becomes really easy to justify pretty much any horror in the name of “minimizing overall harm”… It’s only our visceral moral reactions to some of the other moral flavors that pretty much prevent us from being monsters.
I’ll contain this to this thread, but this…this my friends, is why they made the internet…
Blatant white nationalist in Congress. Degree of Republican condemnation? Zero. A pathetically tepid rejection by Jeb Bush and that’s it.
March 14, 2017
I heard an interesting take on single payer. Dual level single payer. This is where a certain level of coverage is guaranteed via the state, and then people are free to purchase something beyond that. Perhaps a little faster access or coverage for certain non-covered/non-life threatening type issues…
More coverage simply leads to improved, society wide well being. It is a basic fact…
too socialist. no one is going to want single payer – we as a society don’t trust the State enough for that. Don’t you dare touch medicaid or medicare though.
The thing that I correlate it to in my head is College – Stanford/Harvard/Brown aren’t going out of business because state colleges were introduced. It’s not a perfect simile, but it does show that private enterprise can live with public options…
Medicare is single payer. I wasn’t sure whether you were being sarcastic….
I’m afraid that in the long run, that attitude, which maybe was good for us a century ago, is going to be our downfall. In a modern society that is so complex and interconnected, our treatment of collectivism as anathema is going to hurt us as societies, like China, who are more willing to embrace, and seemingly more so pragmatically today, are going to fly by us… All because we held to some centuries old ideal that never evolved….
That’s how it is in Australia – Universal coverage includes all basic needs. But many people buy private health insurance to supplement – Faster times, nicer hospitals, more choice in Doctors, more “elective” procedures covered.
This is somewhat close to what I’d like to see, which is the institution of two programs:
–A base level of gov’t insurance (we’ll call it Medicat) that ensures that no one will die and no one will go to bankruptcy for the lack of ability to pay medical bills if something catastrophic happens to them.
–An actual public option (we’ll call it Medichoice) that anyone can buy into regardless of prior medical status. I was really disappointed that this, one of the better parts of the ACA, never got implemented. In the current situation, I’d prefer creating a Medicare buy-in, but politically this is likely all kinds of DOA.
With this, you give people a choice to purchase public or private insurance, you relieve private insurance from the obligation from losing money on those with pre-existing conditions (because they now at least have Medichoice to enroll in), and you relieve consumers from the absolutely perverse obligation of being forced to purchase a product from an industry they may have misgivings with.
As for any funding for Medicat and Medichoice that Medichoice’s premiums may fall short on, start with removing the income cap on the payroll tax, then if needed, realign income taxes on capital gains so that they are the same as other forms of income, or then knock up the income tax across the board a bit.
What a lot of people don’t realize is that the health insurance plan made available to federal government employees and elected/appointed officials is a private insurance plan, not a government-run plan. And that’s how I always understood the public option… you can get the same coverage that a member of Congress gets and likely pay a lower premium.
Instead, the fear mongerers made it out to be something that it never was.
I’d add that “Medicat” should cover a lot of preventative stuff, like diabetic care and whatnot that helps address issues that get real expensive later on if left untreated….
Parts of the ACA never got implemented because the republicans, while unable to repeal it outright, cut funding or hamstrung certain aspects that would ensure it’s failure. They eliminated the teeth by making so that if you didn’t buy health insurance, you wouldn’t have to pay the fine that would have been imposed as a tax. Thus those that didn’t want to, didn’t sign up. Fewer people means less money in the pot which means higher premiums.
The ACA was sabotaged by partisan bullshit because the republicans didn’t want to give the Dems a victory. Now, they’re trying to repeal and replace with a bullshit plan that won’t work, but even if it does, they’ll claim a victory but in reality, they’ll be providing healthcare at a cost to everyone which will result in the same thing the ACA tried to do. The difference will just be in a different way. I don’t give a shit how it gets done as long as it covers people and it’s cheaper. It won’t happen though. The problem is, the way they’re setting it up, it’ll be a tax cut for the rich and a hardship for older people that need it the most.
If they do get it done (and I highly doubt they will in any fair way), then I still call it a victory for the Dems because if it wasn’t for Obama pushing the ACA through in the first place, we’d still be where we were 9 years ago. My brother would still bey paying over $800/month for his insulin (he’s diabetic). Instead, it’s almost all covered now.
This makes a lot of sense, Nick. Great idea to remove that cap of $118K so that all income would contribute to the SS trust fund. It is now around $2.7T – but it needs to continue to grow.
I need to look more in depth about how Germany handles health insurance. Much of what I’ve read indicates they’ve found a good compromise between single-payer run by the government and the private marketplace.
I do think we need to go outside the box and avoid the “one size fits all” approach. I certainly don’t want anyone to die, become incapacitated or go bankrupt because of health care costs or lack of care, but everyone’s health needs are different and the best thing to do is to find the best way to provide a basic coverage, but allow some flexibility that recognizes that every person’s needs are different.
We have several different health insurance plans in this country: The VA has a system totally run by the government similar to that in England where the doctors work for the government, etc. Medicare – which I have – pays about 80% for hospitalization and doctors visits. I do not carry the Advantage – which would simply be another insurance and not Medicare. Then we have the ACA and then private insurance.
Medicare costs the government about 2% to administer. The private health insurance companies need about 21% to administer.
A good single payer system would work. However – what Nick is proposing below has a lot of promise.
That is where it just seems so regressive, the way we do it. I mean, isn’t it apparent that when you introduce profit into healthcare, you make automatically make it more expensive?
I haven’t been able to fact check this – but I understand that when Medicare was introduced in the 60’s – it paid for everything. And it was so cheap. Then the GOP started drilling holes in it.
Another updated post-combine big board. http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/news/nfl-draft-myles-garrett-jonathan-allen-malik-hooker-headline-top-100-prospects/
I don’t recall a draft season with as much volatility between the various mainstream draft sites.
I’m curious which site/draft expert everybody favors. In general, I’m underwhelmed by NFL.com, but I think they’ve assembled a pretty good draft crew.
Mike Mayock tops my list. You will always see names in his rankings that nobody else has mentioned, and then the other guys scramble to catch up with him. He also does one mock only, so he can’t point to past versions and claim he was right.
And for all the flack he catches, Mel Kiper is very accurate year-after-year. He doesn’t do a top 50 or top 100 overall online though, so his information isn’t very useful past round one. I do think he sells a more complete package, but I’ve never bought it.
Something to consider when looking at the offensive line options in the draft: the Broncos are clearly focused on getting bigger and meaner. Bolles doesn’t really fit that (although his on-field demeanor does). Neither does Ramcycz. Cam Robinson is probably the only fringe first rounder who does.
They aren’t allowed to keep taking steroids after college.
Are you a War Eagle?
Mike Klis was on with Brandon Stokley and Cecil Lammey this afternoon on KKFN-FM in Denver. Klis thinks that the Broncos are considering trading up(!) for Garrett Bolles or Ryan Ramczyk. I called in to the show to raise my objections to such a move, Stokley, and Lammey wholeheartedly agreed, but then again, anyone with half a brain would object to what Klis proposed.
Shit! I was listening a little while ago on my way to lunch, but I must have missed you.
Nothing wrong with drafting one of those guys in the right spot, but there sure as hell shouldn’t trade UP to do it. Now THAT’S a panic move.
I agree. Unfortunately, nothing is more panic-inducing than the words “left tackle Donald Stephenson.” So, while I think trading up for a tackle in this draft would be a big mistake, I certainly understand why they’re panicking.
As long as both Ramczyk and Bolles are on the board there’s no need to move. Once one is selected, though, I could see them moving up to pounce on the other, but I don’t think it’s wise. Lamp is the wildcard. If they think he can play tackle they can afford to be more patient, though he could end up being the first OL selected.
I think Lamp can play tackle more than Steph can..
Now THAT was funny!
Fuckin’ Garrett Bolles… I’m resigned to that fate. <>
If this guy is on the board…
I’ve moved him off my board as I just can’t see him falling to #20. Top 15 is my guess.
The anonymous AFC personnel manager who mentioned Clady and Okung thought Robinson was the best bet. I would hope (and do think) that the FO realizes Robinson is not a LT.
The Broncos clearly are going for the “nasty” attitude, which Bolles has.
Bolles at 20 would be a disappointment though. He can’t seem to get over 300 pounds, at 25 years old.
Bolles’ nasty will be sort of comical and ironic if indeed “..he struggles to generate much movement against stout outside linebackers at point of attack…”.
That’s called a personal foul, aka a “Malik Jackson.”
Yeah but he’ll make a mean face and call them names while engaging them. We may need to nickname him “Miss Jackson” if we draft him.
In my eyes, this is the year for the Broncos to trade down a couple of spots in the first round so they can take Bolles at better value for the overall slot, then use the pick acquired to move up in, say, the second round to get a good player at another position of need. They can take advantage of the deep class at tight end, cornerback or defensive line.
Very much agree. My one question is, how much draft capital can we realistically gain by moving down in the first this draft?
All teams must know that this is a strategy for this year in particular, as the player at 25 will have nearly the same talent as the player at 50. Scarcity and need can always bring out the worst in GMs though.
But every year there are teams who want a particular guy. In a sense, we’re better off if none of the quarterbacks have been taken by the time we pick.
I think we’ll need to go back 6-7 spots to land a mid-third.
Moving back a few spots to take Bolles makes a lot of sense if they are committed to taking an OT in the 1st or 2nd round – especially if they wanted to take Bolles.
My sense is that playing Sambraillo at LT after a year or 2 of seasoning was the plan 2 years ago. Hopefully – if this is their plan – it will work this year.
Timestamp or it didn’t happen….
My call was taken around 1:10 p.m. MDT. I will edit my post to include a link to the podcast when it becomes available.
“And now on the phone we will hear the opinion of a random crazy person.”
Relax I was referring to Klis.
I’ve been called worse. 🙂
So Stephenson at LT then?
I would much rather trot out Stephenson and 6 and 7-man offensive line looks that Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave have frequently used in seasons past, than to waste draft capital trading up for a mediocre prospect with substantial bust potential. Bad teams make those kinds of trades and reaches.
That’s too many maybes, Coach. Let’s get a Plan A.
Uncle Rico and I were discussing Stephenson on another thread. He has a contact who is a Chief’s fan who told him that KC tried Stephenson at LT – no go. Then at RT – he sucked there. I hope that the coaching staff have some magic stuff to use with him.
However – in his defense – last year he was working pretty well until he was injured.
Do you expect both Ramczyk and Bolles to be gone by 20? I know they’re the top of the class, but when I go down the line and look at the talent on the board at other positions I keep thinking it’s unlikely.
To be honest, I don’t know. I normally avoid all this draft talk like the plague. The only reason I’m giving an ounce of attention to it is because we are so desperate at LT. Maybe a month ago I took a quick look back at typically how many tackles go in the first round, and where the first one goes. I think sometime in 1960’s was the last time a tackle didn’t go in the top 20. Based upon the abysmal free agent class and the increasing importance given to the position, I would expect a lot of tackles taken in the first round. Of course, the talent available is going to affect that somewhat. The real question is how much.
I don’t follow mock drafts or big boards or combine results or watch film on prospects, so I may be out of touch. But I would not be surprised if a run on tackle develops early in the draft, just how a run on mediocre free agent left tackles developed.
The broncos tired to be patient and budget conscious in free agency, but Okung got his 13 million APY, and Kalil, Reiff and Whitworth got their 11 million APY, and now we are left with only Stephenson. Sometimes you have to overpay
And, it may be strange, but I’d rather suck at that position group for another year than waste the opportunity to select genuinely better prospects or buy in a seller’s market.
Just gotta hope for some development and scheme adjustment.
Your commitment level is unquestioned sir!
You are known as The Voice
Honestly, pretty much anyone who comments on this site could give better takes than Klis on personnel and draft matters. Klis is often good at breaking stories, but his strength does not lie in analysis.
So this was Klis opinion on what the team should do?! That makes me feel far better than if he was passing on the info. in the vein of breaking a story…
They’re not going to tell Klis their actual intentions. They only tell him what they want people to think/know.
Cmon, I know that… but if enough people are saying the same sort of thing and he’s just putting 2 and 2 together that’s alarming. But if he’s trying to do analysis and personnel evaluation, well then he’s way out of his depth and who cares what hot garbage he’s spewing.
We’ve seen it before with Denver like last yr. there was a lot of info. leading up to the draft that Denver would trade up for Lynch…
Because once Oz left, trading up 10 or so spots for Lynch was eminently logical. We needed a “QB of the future”, and Lynch was decent value in the late first for us (or some other team, which is why we needed to move up for him).
Chasing flawed OT candidates in a really deep late 1st round is the opposite… It makes no sense, unless we REALLY love one of them. But there are 20+ good/great prospects, and we’re sitting at 20… someone, be it one of the OTs or some other position of need, is likely to fall to us. So trading up makes no sense.
I will have to re-listen to Klis’s exact wording as to whether that was his own analysis or insider information. Keep in mind, this is also lying season, and someone within the Broncos organization may have said that to Klis to play mind games with other teams.
I agree it’s lying/mind game season for sure, but if this claim is part of a mind game what does it accomplish? Floating it out there that we’re considering moving up for a tackle would only serve to motivate some other tackle-hungry team to jump in front of us. That’s only smart if we don’t plan to take a tackle in the first round at all. So it seems like there’s two possibilities: 1. Klis is reading into it and drawing his own conclusions; or 2. We have no intention of drafting a tackle in the first round, under any circumstance. I hope it’s number 1.
[font] That’s why it’s called mind games. Maybe another team will apply the analysis you just did, assume the Broncos aren’t taking a LT in the first round, and thus not worry about them moving up. Then wham, we can surprise them on draft day. [font]
I clearly cannot choose the cup in front of me…
You gotta give him credit tho because he pretty much says the same thing about himself. If you’ve listened to him much, he’s often pretty reluctant to give his opinion. It’s kind of annoying actually.
Troy Renck on the other hand impresses quite a bit, especially given he’s more a baseball guy. He’s put the time in to learn the game.
Renck is awesome. Gives really great takes and certainly seems to know his stuff.
Is this a Klis proposal or what he believes the Broncos will do based on info.? FWIW, I could easily see it happening… comments from Joseph seem to suggest they’re locked in on taking a tackle and there’s been a great deal of coverage about Chryst connection to Ramczyk.
I pay very little attention to draft rumors, especially this early in the process, since there are all kinds of efforts to conceal true intent. Helps me to not get too stressed out when I hear things like this.
Except last yr. we heard repeatedly that Elway liked Lynch and then he traded up to… take Lynch.
For better or worse, I heard more Dak Prescott rumors than I heard Lynch rumors.
I recall alot of if not Lynch (who b/c of the QB premium was expected to go in the 1st) then Dak in the 3rd or 4th.
Yeah, that too. There’s so much information flying around that time of year. I thought Lynch was a fairly predictable pick, but not necessarily because of anything Elway or the Broncos said.
Not me I believe every word man
I guess I’m just a petty person or something, because I know they say don’t shoot the messenger or the bearer of bad news or whatever, but if this happens, I may have to track down Mike Klis and punch him in the back of the head.
Ware will make a helluva D line coach.
He most certainly would. But legends like him don’t need to spend 14 hours/day doing a thankless job like that in the NFL. I’m sure he’ll be welcome in Denver and Dallas if he ever wants to drop in and drop some knowledge though.
Dear schedule makers: don’t put the Redskins at the Chiefs or Chargers Week 2.
So I just checked and they’re accurate to like 27 digits and I was like “Holy!” and then I remembered photoshop is a thing.
Yeah, once you look at the pic a little closer you can totally see the photoshoping.
Who’s got the whitest roster, New England or Green Bay? Does Belichick’s affinity for white skill position players, along with his support of racists in Washington, add up to something? Or is it just another example of him taking advantage of league wide groupthink and adding an undervalued commodity?
This tweet has your name written all over it, SMA.
He’s a lunch bucket guy, no doubt. A real GRINDER.
Sneaky fast too.
The LeGarrette Blount era in NE may be over.
One thing is for sure, he’s going to bring the hard hat every day.
Saying “Patriotsest” is like Homer trying to say the plural of Flanders: “the Flandersesisisiziz…”
All racism aside, it truly is amazing that a team full of white guys win the Super Bowl so much. You watch the Combine, and given the percentage of Blacks, vs Whites, it’s almost like the Patriots must sign every one.
One of the original Oakland A’s moneyball aspects was taking short and scrawny players who were thus overlooked but otherwise could play. Christian McCaffrey and his Dad have said they feel he is/was discriminated against because he is white.
With a salary cap, winning is a lot about finding values where others don’t think it exists. If other scouts or GMs have an unconscious (or conscious) bias against white players, it could create an opportunity to improve the team.
That said, this would all be speculative until there are numbers showing they actually have more white guys, or more importantly that they collectively performed at a level higher than their draft position or free agent contract would indicate.
To see national media people go on about it, I believe that this is the single biggest signing of the free agency period.
(but in all seriousness this seems like the most talked-about signing since day 1 on Thursday)
Poe and Suh. That would be an interesting middle to a defensive front.
Pi Day, Pi Day, gotta get down on Pi Day.
Is Dumervil a Hall of Famer?
I was just thinking about Doom…if they are going to talk about bringing back former Broncos, I’d rather see Doom than Os. We could use a veteran presence as a rotational pass-rusher.
As long as they don’t screw up the fax machine.
2 underhand soft ball lobs for that one, eh?
It’s all about know where to put the 9 for dialing an outside and a good pause character…. Kind of an art form these days…
I’d rather see Doom than Os as well. I’d rather see Decker than either of them if that could become reality.
I would love to get him back!
For a guy who is primarily regarded as a pass rusher, a sack total around 100 is not going to get it done.
Turns out the BBC guy is a good dude…
I know on a smaller scale how that guy feels with children bombarding in while working at home and being on the phone with clients.
That is such a relief. He looked so angry to me in the original, I felt sorry for the whole family. Glad they’re all so chill about it now.
Agree… Looked a little dicey at first. But I’m looking at it now, I can see a bit of a chuckle coming through
C’mon Cecil, this deserves a trigger warning, even if the Raiders are (hopefully) lying.
He talked about this at length today on his show. If we trade up or even take Garrett Bolles at 20 and pass up on McCaffrey, and he ends up with the Raiders or Chiefs, that is going to be brutally painful.
I really want the Raiders to sign some RB in free agency to make it less of a need for them, just to ease my queasiness of this thought.
They got their KR, so if they can shore up their RB corp, I agree, hopefully it’ll be less of a need for them.
Using his media status to lobby for a pick. Can’t say I wouldn’t try it myself.
Something I just noticed is that Broncos Twitter is doing a good job thanking their newest old friends. Just another sign at how well run this organization is.
These are great!! Each of these guys contributed to one of the best defenses every assembled in the NFL.