• The Color Orange

    Adam Schefter
    Adam Schefter โ€“ Verified account โ€@AdamSchefter

    After visiting with Broncos yesterday, Dolphins DC Vance Joseph is flying today to San Diego to meet with the Chargers, per source.

    • Is Schefter catching up on old news or is he aware that Elway and Co. took VJ to dinner after the interview, and yet still having no offer VJ is en route to the airport to catch a jet to SD?

      • The Color Orange

        Schefter posted that this morning, almost 10 hours after the news broke of the dinner. Schefter posted at 6 a.m. EST.

        • ohiobronco

          FWIW Brian Hoyer also got a steak dinner. I don’t think Elway is particularly stingy with those.

          • The Color Orange

            Right, but as for coaching searches, only those who were hired got the steak dinner.

          • pubkeeper

            The other 2 interviewed didn’t come to Denver either. Hmm….

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Agree… If the others were interviewed in Denver, they probably would’ve done dinner as well…

          • Grover7874

            Sorry for the down vote. Small phone, fat fingers.

            Anyways, I was going to say that Vance got the chicken, as in “Winner, winner, Chicken Dinner.”

          • ohiobronco

            Interesting data but the sample size and causality are a little shaky.

        • GrizzlyB

          Source on Kubiak getting a steak dinner?

  • RSH, Esq.
    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Dinner seems to me more like a courtesy, and taking advantage of an opportunity to continue talking, than it does an indication that a final decision has been made. The other candidates weren’t interviewed in Denver, or they might have received the prime grade bone-in filet treatment as well.

    • drewthorn

      Seems to me that dinner would be awkward without at least the implication of an offer. Big ass elephant in the corner.

      • Maybe they just put it out there that they’ll need a day or two to think about it and encouraged him to go interview elsewhere. If it’s the best job opening, Broncos can do that and if he gets an offer in SD or LA that will force a Denver decision.

      • ohiobronco

        I certainly have had many interview meals where an offer never materialized.

        • drewthorn

          Yeah, probably everybody has not got the job. It’s going on a date afterward that seems weird.

          • ohiobronco

            Just a continuation of interview in a different setting. Both sides still evaluating and selling.

      • Lonestar47

        Many business dinners do not include a job offer..

        It is a way to get to know someone on a more personal basis. Mainly to see if they like each other.

  • Rhett Rothberg
    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      If I wasn’t scared to death about getting shot/stabbed/curb stomped by Raiders fans I would plan to attend a game or two there after the move.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Seems like Vegas will be a more secure location!

        • SterlingMalloryArcher

          I don’t know. I theorize that all the gang activity there is just displaced Raider fans trying to lure their team closer.

          • Yahmule

            It’s actually a pretty easy town to get hurt in if you’re careless. I’m not sure pissing away three quarters of a billion dollars in taxpayer money on a football stadium will improve these conditions dramatically.

          • PiperAR

            Maybe they can legalise prostirution statewide to expand the tax base.

      • ohiobronco

        Sales conference attendees and middle aged second marriage honeymooners can be quite dangerous. I would say you have to worry about Packman too but he is going to need to lay low for a while.

    • Rhett Rothberg
    • Random Anonymous Coward

      I should do the humane thing and say I feel bad about the fanbase being betrayed by the Raiders organization moving to Las Vegas… but it’s the Raiders’ fanbase. Good riddance. 9 home games seasons be welcome.

      • Lonestar47

        Their fans did not support them for decades. Hench the upper decks being tarped over for raiders games.

        They go on a hot streak and they come out of the woodwork like the cockroaches they are.

  • Rhett Rothberg
  • Random Anonymous Coward

    I’m debating between getting a ticket for the Packers@Cowboys game or a whole year of health insurance.

    Fuck you Jerry.

  • drewthorn

    Friggin’ significant ice storm forcast for Friday/Saturday. For those who have never experienced one of those abominations, they might be the closest thing to hell on earth. It’s not uncommon for neighborhoods to be without power a couple weeks after the storm.

    • Alaskan

      If you disappear from the board this weekend, we won’t take it personally.
      You’ll still be our coach, no matter what the DP says.
      Via con dios, compadre.

    • PiperAR

      If I was a salesman for those household batteries that Telsa is making, I know where I’d be selling around January 20th. But given the state’s ties to fossil fuels, I expect people promoting green energy could get shot on sight.

    • PiperAR

      Ice storms happen in Nebraska but are rare. For the most part temps stay below freezing all winter and precipitation is snow. But they do happen and they do suck. Farther south where temps can swing from 45/50 down to 25/30, ice storms are much more common. Good luck and stay safe.
      Also, I haven’t really seen ‘bridges ice first in cold weather’ because in Nebraska and Iowa, it’s cold everywhere. But sure as shit, down in OKC and Dallas/FW, the road can be dry and the bridge is a playable hockey surface.

  • Kush-Lash

    Trying to take a break from Donald Trump’s Golden Shower-Gate and the consistent speculation of the message it sends when Vance Joseph orders chicken instead of steak, something interesting has quietly been developing in the Bay Area between the 49ers and the City of Santa Clara.

    http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/09/san-francisco-49ers-sue-santa-clara-over-allegations-of-contract-breach/
    http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/10/49er-sue-santa-clara-over-stadium-dispute/

    Basically, the city is alleging that taxpayer dollars were misused and the 49ers have withheld documentation from auditors. The 49ers have since sued the city not for money, instead for protection of confidential information becoming public records.

    Seeing as how all NFL teams enjoy tax exempt status, I’m not quite sure why they should ever be granted such a protection. It appears to me the 49ers are playing hardball and have a lot to lose if the city takes over stadium management. For the last 5 years, this team’s ownership does NOT pass the smell test and I would caution any coaching or general management candidate to believe it to be a destination opportunity.

    Besides, you’d need to make a lot more money just to afford to live there: http://fortune.com/2016/04/09/billboard-summit800-san-francisco-housing/

    • Rhett Rothberg

      Are they tax exempt?

      • Kush-Lash

        Rhett, I stand corrected, the answer is actually no. Each team is a private business, however it wasn’t until last year that the NFL League Offices gave up their 50 year run of non-profit status.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Only the church has that good of a deal…

          I didn’t think the NFL was… It was just the NFL central office that claimed tax exempt status… Teams always paid taxes…per Rico’s not below…

          • Yahmule
          • Rhett Rothberg

            The gospel has been prosperous for him!

          • PiperAR

            Praise Jesus!

          • Rhett Rothberg

            …it pays!

          • Alaskan

            The gospel has been preposterous for him.

          • PiperAR

            Pays Jesus!

          • PiperAR

            The sheepl, er, true believers are promised mansions like that in heaven. Osteen has a mansion on earth for teaching purposes, to help the people understand what heaven is like and what rewards await them. At least I think that’s the story.

          • Yahmule

            It must be a pretty carefree existence being completely unencumbered by a conscience.

          • Kush-Lash

            http://www.sportsonearth.com/article/62280950)#!PeL8J)

            Rhett this was the article that kept me boiling over the strong arming of taxpayers the NFL still does. Even though league offices have withdrawn their exempt status, they still take tax payers money for stadium construction, the sale of tax exempt PSLs in those stadiums and exempt status from local taxes where Superbowl’s are held.

            It’s still a sham and it looks like the the situation in SF could boil over.

          • Nick

            One thing that I want to add, and this is very important in context to college sports, is that non-profit corporations should not be automatically seen as some warm, fuzzy entities that have “greater causes” than “making money”. All a non-profit corporation is is an organization that does not have shareholders. That’s it. Non-profits are very capable of generating a shitload of revenue and pissing it away on things that aren’t quite as warm and fuzzy.

          • Kush-Lash

            Exactly, like lawyer fees for sweeping child sex abuse under the rug for decades (Catholic Church) or fundraising for your own political gains (Trump Foundation).

          • Yahmule

            Luckily for the Catholic church, their donations went up after news broke that the highest church officials condoned and abetted multiple child rapists for decades.

          • PiperAR

            Because just allowing consenting adults to practice homosexuality would be far too sinful.

    • Yahmule

      Don’t let the story about the President-elect getting pissed on by Russian prostitutes distract you from the story about the President-elect being a treasonous cunt.

      • drewthorn

        Unfortunately, Trump could swap out the State of the Union Address with an annual public buggering of a three year old and the zombie apocalypse would be undeterred.

        • Yahmule

          Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan would personally abduct a child that met his preferences.

    • Nick

      Good thing I had to restart my browser before I got a chance to correct you. : )

  • Nick

    I am so proud to see people like Mike Shanahan, Ed McCaffrey, Adam Schefter, and Mike Pereira involved in this. An excellent profile written by Dan Wetzel, who’s been good for many years on the problems with the financing of college football.

    https://twitter.com/DanWetzel/status/819152830531600384

    • Rhett Rothberg

      I sometimes wonder if the current NFL/NCAA collusion can stand up… While there is pretty clear collusion, there are still two organizations with somewhat different motivations… So NCAA coaches, while happy to retain the talent, still need to win first. Thus we see the shift to the spread type offenses and whatnot that are more successful in the shallow talent depth world of D-1 football… But as that shift starts to degrade the talent that the NFL gets developed free of cost in the NCAA, I wonder if that alliance will begin to fray leaving space for other venues such as this one….

      I hope so… The CFB championship game was pretty weird to watch… Just oodles of money being made by all sorts of people…except for the actual actors in that play…

      • Kush-Lash

        Yea, not to mention the gambling public walked away with over $20 million in profit… https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/01/11/clemson-dealt-as-major-of-a-loss-to-las-vegas-sports-books-as-it-did-to-alabama/?utm_term=.767f410dffde

        So, advertisers, television networks, cororate sponsors, the NCAA, the collges, the college atheltic conferences, the administrators and the coaches all profited (heavily) from the game, but the athletes who performed on the stage were still ‘amateurs’ and couldn’t dare profit.

      • Jeremy

        In Nate Jackson’s book, he argues the NFL Is successful not because it has the most talent, but because they are the best at marketing their product. I agree, and think all this talk about the drop off in talent in the NFL is totally BS. I don’t think humans are capable of comparing talent levels in absolute terms, and all we can compare is talent level between the players on the field. (IE Von Miller is better than Donald Penn, but if both were all of the sudden 10% worse, would we be able to tell the difference?) We can tell really big drop offs, but slight changes in the overall talent level (IE if fewer kids grow up playing football), has almost no affect (maybe from a fandom standpoint, but not from a product on the field standpoint). Maybe edge rushers are more NFL ready than Tackles are because of college rule changes, but what’s the problem? You can either tweak the rules to adjust for this, or embrace that sacks are an exciting part of the game. I’ve never met anyone who agrees with me to even the slightest extent however. This leads me back to point one, that the NFL has done so well marketing the product, no one can comprehend that overall talent level isn’t paramount to what they are watching

        • Kush-Lash

          Completely agree. His book was awesome… will never get over his stories of Eric Mangini and Josh McDaniels. Complete head cases.

        • Yahmule

          The most recent iteration of every sport is, generally speaking, the best that sport has ever been played. Athletes keep getting better and coaching and training techniques become more refined.

          It’s debatable whether the NFL markets their product any better than other leagues, but they’re certainly much more protective of their brand. You would certainly never see the NFL green light a piece of crap like Hustle and allow their teams and official logos to be represented in such a shabby fashion.

          When ESPN tried to put out Michael Irvin’s home movies, the league stamped on that shit tout suite.

          The NFL enjoys a lot of inherent advantages that have made it more popular. First off, the weekly format appeals to a lot of busy people (not everyone thinks about the NFL every day like us), which is why Thursday games will always be a sketchy proposition. Second, it’s the most gambler friendly sport. Whether it be betting on games or fantasy football, people like action.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          I dont disagree…. but why the apparent collusion between the NFL and NCAA?

          • Jeremy

            What specific examples?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Lack of any other developmental league… The NCAA keeping players in for three years… The NCAA is the defacto dev league for the NFL… and it works for both sides

    • Jeremy

      Will be great if this works out. I get my hopes up about a lot of these and then they fail (last one was the A-10 league).

      To run some numbers, they say there will be 6 regular season games plus 1 or 2 playoff games, and a players total compensation will be 50k, and there will be rosters of 50/team. Assume the 50k really is total compensation, including all payroll taxes, tuition reimbursement, workman comp, etc (if this is true, players will probably be making closer to 20 or 25k per year, but still pretty good for a few months of work, and much more than most other minor leaguers make, as I understand it).

      That means the average play per player per game is 50k/player/season*2 teams/game*50players/team / 7 games per season. That means just to cover the cost of players compensation, you need to bring in $714,000 per game. If it’s similar to most large sports leagues, where players salary are roughly half the revenue, you need to bring in $1.5 million per game. Ignoring TV, if you can somehow get 20,000 fans per game (about what the XFL got, but significantly more than arena football), you need to collect $75/fan who attends. I don’ think that’s doable. So you probably need TV backing as well. No idea the economics of that.

      • Yahmule

        Minor league baseball exists despite no TV and much lower ticket prices. Of course, they pay the players an insultingly low wage.

        The question is whether the league will view this as a moneymaker (probably, since most of the owners would happily expand to 100 teams to collect those expansion fees) or if they actually want to regard it as an investment in their game.

        • Jeremy

          I’ve heard stories of guys making as low as 1200/month, which works out to maybe 60/game. This league is saying they’ll pay there guys over $7000/game, and their rosters are twice as big. So you are talking about an order of magnitude of over 200.

          • Yahmule

            Keep in mind, every Major League team has between 7-9 minor league affiliates, plus their share of operating costs for all the facilities.

          • Jeremy

            Minor league teams are independently owned and operated, just with players and coaches provided by the “parent” team. That’s why you see teams affiliations shuffle around so frequently

          • Yahmule

            For the most part. Some teams own affiliates, but Major League teams sign player development contracts with minor league organizations, so there’s still the cost of maintaining that infrastructure.

            I can tell you this, I probably wouldn’t watch a developmental football league regularly. I agree their attempts to pay for this league through licensing the broadcast rights will be tough. Convincing enough owners to support improving their product at the cost of subsidizing this venture will ultimately determine its long term viability.

          • PiperAR

            The cost to the NFL of NCAA development is zero. Which is also the immediate value of an offensive lineman who never learned to put his hand in the dirt.

          • Yahmule

            So that is the cost. Crappier offense, which tends to lead to declining ratings.

      • PiperAR

        One thing the XFL was guilty of bad timing. They kicked off their one season shortly after the Super Bowl wrapped up. Football fans were full of football. Now, if a season were to start two weeks after the draft, and wrap up before training camps start, that would serve football fans during the most NFL-starved time of the year.

    • Yahmule

      This seems very well thought out. The fact that the players will actually be compensated (with the additional option of pursuing an education simultaneously) seems like something that would be attractive to a lot of young athletes.

      • Nick

        And I like the angle of specifically pursuing community college. Not only is college not for everyone at age 18, but neither is a high end, high priced college.

  • Rhett Rothberg
    • Mike Klis is personally expecting it. Yet Paige, Schefter and Legwold thought Shanahan was the favorite. I guess steak dinners are reserved only for coaching candidates that get an offer.

    • He made him an offer of breakfast. Klis hasn’t had his yet so who knows. Stay tuned.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      My visceral impression is….lame.

      My worry is that Elway may not be progressive… He went regressive with Manning, Kubiak and defense… But that sort of seems like a last hurrah of that type of football…

      I feel Shanahan is more in tune with the cutting of edge of football… Using new schemes, technology, maybe doing things like using that VR thing they use at Stanford, etc…

      But Joseph seems to be a throwback to regressive football… A good Gipper speech and three yards and a cloud of dust….

      I prefer progressive…

      • Yahmule

        This type of blind presumption is something that will probably dog Joseph throughout his tenure.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Is it blind? I guess we’re fixin’ to find out…

          I’m open minded on it…

          • Nick

            Well, what evidence do we have that Joseph is “a throwback to regressive football”?

          • Rhett Rothberg

            Again, I’m not making a claim… I’m stating an opinion that I am trying to form…

            Anyhow, the narrative around Joseph has been that he is a “leader of men”, he’s been associated w/ a retread OC in McCoy… Not particularly forward facing…

            Shanahan, has taken an offense and modernized it and formed it into one of the current leagues best… We have a QB who came up in the current college offensive trend…

            Again, I don’t personally get a lot out of rah rah…

          • pubkeeper

            a Joseph hire would lend a little more credence to dmacs contention that the locker room was massively divided. All the talk of his leadership would then make sense

          • Yahmule

            Maybe pay a little less attention to narratives and do some of your own research with an open mind. You delve a little deeper than the score of the Pittsburgh game you might find some things you like.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            You make the assumption that I am merely adrift on the winds of DMac’s bluster…

            The MIA-PIT game registered nothing for me…

          • Yahmule

            I don’t know. Maybe you can elaborate on why you assume Joseph has such a retrograde mentality.

          • Well where does the “regressive” assumptions come from, what is it based on? I understand you are likely comparing to KS and his clever offensive schemes, but that’s not really what this job is about and we also don’t know much about Joseph’s leadership other than that players love him and the Broncos staff seems to like him a lot too.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          to be honest… i have a predilection toward the technocrat… I’m one that is too swayed by “leadership”… I’d rather have a supreme technician over a supreme motivator. But perhaps football is not the place for that…

          • Yahmule

            Okay, presumptive generalizations are all you’ve got. That’s fine.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I wasn’t making any claims…..so…..

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            He did say “visceral.” It’s just a gut reaction. I also see Shanahan as a more cutting edge, progressive football mind. I don’t know if that would make him the better head coach, but I would have been more excited about him, personally. That doesn’t mean I expect or want Joseph to perform poorly.

          • Yahmule

            I guess I’m just not looking forward to the various coded messages we’re going to get about Joseph’s presumed lack of intelligence from the people who hated him the second they saw his picture. Not Rhett’s intention in any way, but the suggestion that schemes and technology aren’t Joseph’s forte is still pretty insulting. The guy is a film junkie, so breaking down offensive schemes is actually something he enjoys and he personally shows his players the best ways to do it and get the most out of their time. Getting your players to love the technical aspects of the game is part motivation and part just being a good teacher.

          • PiperAR

            Going to the blackboard and drawing Xs and Os like a chess master doesn’t mean squat if the coach can’t get his players to understand. And not just understand but physically carry out the assignments. Players aren’t computers to be programmed nor robots that execute the mechanics flawlessly.

          • Yahmule

            This was something about Joseph that Dre Kirkpatrick said that impressed me: “”He’s had a great impact! He’s a great teacher, very patient, always puts us in the best position setting us up for success. He pretty much helped me understand how to break down film so much better and more efficiently. It helps in such a big way to learn better off-the-field studying, which makes the game easier on the field.”

            Rah!

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I certainly get that there is that aspect to a lot of this…

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Joseph just hasn’t proven that out as a coordinator, whereas Shanahan has and then some. I don’t question his intelligence, but he doesn’t have the obviously visible success as a coordinator that Shanahan has. So while we know Shanahan is an X’s and O’s whiz, with Joseph that is at best unknown and at worst untrue. Of course if he brings in a tactician to run the offense, it’s probably moot.

          • Nick

            I’d think it’s possible to win both in the technocratic manner, and in the grand visionary matter. You just have to be really good at football no matter your angle.

          • Kush-Lash

            I think you hit the nail on the head with, “perhaps football is not the place for that” It’s why there has been little innovation in play calling as a whole for decades, it’s why league rule changes are completely focused on maximizing profit and why coaches and GMs still take conservative approaches to game management and roster construction despite academic research that argues in favor of the complete opposite.

      • ohiobronco

        On the other hand, three yards would be a nice improvement.

        • Latest rumor is that McCoy is going to Buffalo with McDermott.

          • RSH, Esq.

            Perhaps Mike wants the focus of his offense to be the Real McCoy.

          • PiperAR

            Please stand up, please stand up, please stand

      • Yahmule

        He went regressive with Manning, Kubiak and defense…

        This sentence is a gem. Defense isn’t going out of style in the NFL anytime soon, Rhett.

    • Snatch Mouth

      Klis is like Donnie in The Big Lebowski…

      Shut the fuck up Donnie…you’re out of your element!!

  • Nick

    This is a test.

    • Nick

      OK folks, I think we have a makeshift way to use a sarcasm font. You can get the different looking text that I tested above by surrounding it with HTML tags like this: [code]Insert sarcastic sentence here[/code], except replace the square brackets with angle brackets. The code tag is generally used to cleanly format programming code in order to discuss it better, but I doubt we’re going to be having those kind of discussions here.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Nope, we won't....never

      • RyanHennigan

        Well this will be great

      • Yahmule

        Can’t I just default to this?

        • Carsonic

          I don't really think of you as the sarcastic type, Yahmule.

        • Random Anonymous Coward

          That is a good bad idea.

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        Now you have to find a way for me to send you a case of beer.

        Just kidding, a single malt will do

        • Carsonic

          “replace the square brackets with angle brackets”

        • Nick

          Oh wow, didn’t know that Disqus added spoiler tags. I’m going to use that for things more than just spoilers.

          • Random Anonymous Coward

            But seriously get a PO BOX so we send you hate mail and polaroid dick pics gifts.

      • Carsonic

        Perfect opportunity to post this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ke5BKi2uBpU

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        <code>This is not working as intended</code&#x3E

      • Carsonic

        Oh, and thanks, this is very cool!

        • Random Anonymous Coward

          Is it?, very, very cool?

    • So, it seems having to wait for Shanahan is actually playing into decision. That’s not smart. Get a commitment from the agent, like Atlanta did with Quinn a couple yrs. ago.

      • pubkeeper

        That’s what I thought. What’s to stop them from having a phone conversation w an acknowledgement it’ll happen?

      • How do you know they haven’t done that? And why would the Broncos leak such information if they have? Remember that any leaking of such information could be interpreted by the NFL as an official announcement of a hiring when the Broncos can’t legally do that under NFL rules (even if one thinks such rules are silly).

        • Agreed, of course shouldn’t leak that. But Klis reported a few mins. ago that an offer to VJ is expected this AM.

          • In the case of Joseph, there isn’t a violation because the Dolphins are out of the playoffs.

          • I understand the rules/circumstance, but you lost me… if an offer to Joseph is made by Broncos (as being reported by Klis) no need to get a commitment from Shanahan’s agent, right?

          • Of course not. Going back to what you first wrote, it’s possible the Broncos got in contact with Shanahan’s agent after finishing the interview with Joseph. We just don’t know how everything has played out yet and the earliest we’ll know more is when the Broncos announce their hiring.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        If the reason for hiring Joseph is that Shanahan isn’t available yet then it isn’t smart, but I’m not sure we know that’s the case.

  • Nick
    • Yahmule

      Ray Rice got blackballed because he was washed up or close to it. Joe Mixon will prove it was that and not solely the video that made his case so different from the other guys who’ve been charged.

      • I’ve always found it funny that NFL teams thought Rice was “washed up” when he was just 28 years old.

        I’m waiting for a video to get leaked about Mixon the day the NFL draft takes place and watch him drop like a brick.

        • Yahmule

          Three yards a pop don’t lie.

          I think the current video of Mixon destroying a woman’s face should be enough to make teams have second thoughts.

          Or the fact that he’s still running around town acting like a bully and not facing any meaningful repercussions. If you or I throw something in someone’s face and then threaten them with our car, we’re not going to simply be benched for a football game.

          • Not disputing that Rice had a bad year prior to his domestic violence arrest, but I also think it was premature to write him off immediately. The video footage just made it easier. After all, the Ravens kept him on the roster until it was no longer convenient for them to do so.

          • Yahmule

            He never even got another tryout, so officially or unofficially, he became untouchable. Mixon’s video is just as egregious, but I’m 100% certain someone will take him. Probably Andy Reid, because why not?

          • Nick

            If the Chiefs draft Mixon I’m going to troll every Chiefs fan I know by pointing out to them that Mixon and Hill are classic Al Davis picks in more than one way.

  • Random Anonymous Coward

    Just finished a delicious cup of coffee to find out my mug was disgustingly dirty inside. Must be how Raiders fans felt every single minute of this season.

    • Snatch Mouth

      Ignorance is bliss

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        Except when it comes to STDs.

        • Snatch Mouth

          What are those?

  • The Color Orange
  • The Color Orange
    • Tyler

      Well not my first choice, but neither was Von Miller so what do I know.

      • Kush-Lash

        I was all in on Marcel Dareus.

        • Andrew

          Same glad I was very wrong! I think a lot of people were tired of Denver having shit interior dline play at that point.

    • Nick

      I have a long meeting around lunchtime this afternoon. Knowing my luck, I’m probably going to miss out on all the news regarding both this and a potential move by the Chargers and/or Raiders. The AFC West never sleeps.

    • Nick
  • Random Anonymous Coward

    I really hope we don’t get Vance Joseph just because he’s hot right now he is so hot right now

  • PiperAR

    I won’t grab a pitchfork and torch over Vance Joseph and McCoy as the OC. But KS’s boy McDaniel with no S and Bill Musgrave both interest me much, much more.

  • Nick

    If you’re looking to keep tabs on Vance Joseph without falling prey to fake/low quality Twitter accounts, go to this search link:

    https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%22vance%20joseph%22%20filter%3Averified&src=typd

  • Rhett Rothberg

    deleted for duplicate… though if you say it twice it makes it so!

    • Rhett Rothberg

      It’s all done but the cryin’!

      • The Color Orange

        Well, let’s just hope Shanahan doesn’t go to the Chargers.

        • PiperAR

          A poor fit for Rivers, I think. I love it!

          • Nick

            Definitely a poor fit.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Unless, of course, he evolves his offense to fit Rivers’ skill set, like he did when he got the only productive season ever out of RGIII.

          • Yahmule

            He evolved an offense that broke RGIII, too.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            No one else can even squeeze first downs out of him, let alone an Offensive Rookie of the Year award. He led the league in both yards per attempt (8.1!) and lowest INT% (1.3). 20 TDs, 5 INTs, and ran for 815 and 7 TDs. That’s a historically great season, from a below average QB. That will always be a feather in Shanahan’s cap in my eyes.

          • Yahmule

            Sending a skinny guy on that many rollouts was going to work out pretty much the way it did. Especially after they saw him try to slide and bounce like an empty paint can that fell off truck on the freeway. Why wasn’t the simple concept of sliding coached into him?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            My understanding is they tried repeatedly to get him to slide. In many cases he simply decided not to (did that again with the Browns this year), and when he did try he lacked the coordination to do so. It’s a very odd phenomenon, no doubt, but the Shanahans certainly weren’t neglecting to recommend it.

          • Yahmule

            My last sentence was pure trolling, man.

            http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2012/1223/20121223__von-miller-wink-broncos-122312~p1.jpg

            I wonder if Von can wink normally or if he needs to use his whole face like that?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Those rollouts and designed runs remain, to this day, the only way he can be an effective professional football player. So it was that or be terrible.

      • Andrew

        I think my curiosity might get the best of mess far as lurking on MHR in a bit I expect it to be Armageddon over there.

        • RSH, Esq.

          And even worse so on its Facebook page.

          • Andrew

            I haven’t been on Facebook since the election i don’t miss it.

          • RSH, Esq.

            You have not missed much. I am growing weary of it.

          • I’m growing weary of social media in general. Too much people complaining about everything and not enough people actually doing something other than said complaining.

          • Alaskan

            Not on any of it. My electronic contact with the world is here and via e-mails to friends, family or professional acquaintances. Never saw the point of Facebook.

          • Yahmule

            Twitter is great for finding out about breaking news, but getting sucked into a bubble is easy. Yesterday, my Twitter feed was a perfect 1/3 mix of Bronco coaching speculation, farewells to President Obama and stories about piss and treason.

  • Yahmule

    Bracing myself for a barrage of stupid narratives. I’m sure Florio will keep pumping the “Shanahan wasn’t available yet” silliness.

    • The Broncos have been the subject of plenty of stupid narratives the past few seasons, so par for the course.

      • Yahmule

        It is a shame that so much of the fan base is against the guy from day one. Nobody is making people feel disappointed right now.

        • I don’t have any issues with people being skeptical of a hiring. I was skeptical about Gary Kubiak, but he proved me wrong.

          But people who are writing off Joseph before he even coaches one game are making way too many assumptions.

          • Andrew

            Agreed you don’t have to love it, but give the guy a chance. I’m more interested in seeing how the rest the staff rounds out at this point. We’ve heard McCoy’s name a lot, but I wonder if Musgrave would get consideration now that he’s available? He would probably have good info on Carr/raiders offense as well.

        • ohiobronco

          Let’s be clear eyed about the origin of the potential negative reaction among some portion of the fanbase.

          • The Color Orange

            So if it was a white guy with one bad year of coordinator experience, you think the fan base would be enthusiastically supporting him over Kyle Shanahan?

          • Yahmule

            I kind of like the fact that those people won’t be able to fully enjoy President Obama leaving office now.

            Kyle Shanahan was the favorite of most people for valid reasons. But, for a not insignificant portion of the fan base, he will be their version of “economic uncertainty”.

    • Andrew

      It seems as though Joseph has been the guy from the start but unfortunately you are right that won’t stop the hot takes.

      • Nick

        There would be hot takes no matter what the Broncos do. I’m sure Skip Bayless has already plotted out a flow chart to attempt to skewer Broncos homer Shannon Sharpe for both Joseph and Shanahan.

        • Andrew

          It’s too hard to predict head coaching success for me to be really up or down on whatever decision they were going to make it was a risk no matter what. I have to trust the Elway has a good plan in place and hope for the best. It you look back at the narratives when Kubiak was hired some of the legitimate criticisms turned out robe true, but he won a Super Bowl so who gives a shit.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      I don’t think that’s the only way to look at it… It’s a competitive market… So you can’t deny that there is risk in waiting… Nor can you state that the Broncos can do whatever they want and everyone else will fall in line because they are the Broncos…

      I’m not saying you’re wrong, I just think adding in “stupid” and “dumb” indicates that any other nuance is not worth considering…

    • I think it’s unlikely that timing was a deciding factor but some well connected guys like Legwold suggest that it did play a part. Just like we don’t know who is a better leader and communicator when it comes to team/staff… Shanny and Toub both have a solid record of leading business units within a team. Joseph has had a couple good yrs. overseeing the secondary in Cincy, and some not so good years overseeing other DB groups plus Miami’s defense. It’s all a crap shoot, did we just get the next Mike Tomlin or Jim Harbaugh or Jim Tomsula or Raheem Morris?

    • Jeff Legwold’s tweet isn’t going to help silence said narrative.

      https://twitter.com/Jeff_Legwold/status/819228103851606019

      • Or this. It’s a thing, like it or not:

        https://twitter.com/Jeff_Legwold/status/819229302759821313

      • Yahmule

        Then he thinks Elway is dumb or gutless, or he thinks this is a crap job. Really no other way to take it.

        • With Shanny’s options looking like down to SF only, he must really think Elway is gutless.

          • Yahmule

            I wonder how many tweets he threw out there during last season’s QB search. I lost count of how many times the Broncos had to “do something now!”

      • Tyler

        I wonder if the leak from a day or two ago with specific questions from Shanahans interview was off-putting for Elway. It would be concerning for me if my first and only interaction with a guy was almost immediately leaked.

        • Yahmule

          That’s what he gets for trusting his old man.

        • I’ll agree with that. It was definitely weird, but also who knows if true or completely fabricated. I do think however that if Kyle suggested that he may want to involve Mike in any official capacity that would cause the Broncos FO to go in a different direction.

  • Nick

    Interesting. I wouldn’t be surprised if they extended it again even longer, perhaps until the annual meeting in March.

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/819221960328679424

  • ohiobronco

    Has anyone mentioned that this is the 30 year anniversary of The Drive?

  • Nick
    • How does anyone really know that VJ is a great or the best leader?

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Cuz that’s the buzz! We don’t, but I trust Elway et al believe that, and that’s about all we can do.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          It’s “Dear Leader” thank you very much… Keep up that kind of talk and your going to find yourself on the business end of an anti-aircraft cannon…

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Kim Jong il-way?

          • Yahmule

            A dynasty’s a dynasty.

      • ohiobronco

        We don’t because rookie head coaches are a lot like rookie QBs in terms of success rate. You just have to do the best evaluation job possible, which they did.

        • Yahmule

          Over the span of two years.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      I get all that, but if they hired Shanahan the offense would be fixed. With Joseph they still need to make another hire to fix it, and that hire will likely be inferior to Shanahan in terms of tactical intelligence.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        I agree… I don’t quite understand that the only failing with last years team was insufficient amounts of “try hard” and “rah rah”…

        • pubkeeper

          That’s not leadership. Leadership is navigating a lockerroom that is fracturing right before your eyes. Seems to me that was what Elway was seeing. This team is loaded with strong personalities, if someone can’t keep them together, their leadership is lacking. “Try hard” and “rah rah” are the opposite, that’s whistling past the graveyard. I don’t like the man, but by all accounts Pete Carroll displays this kind of leadership, and not because of his x’s and o’s. I’ve read the same about Mike Tomlin, who also got his current job after 1 meh season as DC in Minnesota. Everyone has concerns about the offense, but it should be obvious that Elway was looking for someone who could hold a team together, something sorely lacking this year.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Leadership is great, but are we to believe that leadership and X’s and O’s brilliance are mutually exclusive? Could Shanahan not be a great leader as well? The locker room is fracturing because the offense is horrific. Fix the offense; fix the fracture.

          • pubkeeper

            I agree, winning is the ultimate deodorant. And I also agree they’re not necessarily mutually exclusive. But that locker room did not have to fracture the way it did and I think Elway is reacting to that a bit. I would imagine his opinion was that, right or wrong, Kyle wasn’t quite ready yet.

      • Correct.

    • The Color Orange

      Hopefully he’ll still feel that way when his offense hits the field next year.

    • GrizzlyB

      In addition to the talk of Phillips being gone, I just heard on the radio that supposedly Joseph would want to be calling defensive plays. My priority is also the leadership/management side, and the assumption that he would let his coordinators coordinate was the main reason I prefer Joseph to Shanahan. If that changes, I’m not sure I see the appeal, either.

      • I read that he wants to call plays as well on D. So likely no Wade and a coach that has to give more attention to play calling than his supposed strength of leading.

      • Andrew

        Agreed. I see putting him in a situation like Tomlin with strong coordinators around him as the way to go. I’ve seen too many mixed reports to know what is going on at this point as far as Wade is concerned.

    • It’s pretty clear that Elway values leadership more in a head coach than having a head coach who can fix a specific problem. He no doubt see the “fix a specific problem” to be the responsibility of the coordinator or position coach who heads up that area and, if a change is needed in that area, you change that coordinator or position coach before you do anything else.

      In other words, had Kubiak not stepped down, I would not have been surprised to see some changes on the offensive coaching staff. Kubiak may be loyal to assistants but that doesn’t mean he’d refuse to make any changes at all… and it certainly wouldn’t stop people from pointing out that changes need to be made.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        …and this is fair because the most prolific era in Bronco history came with a “defensive minded” head coach with an offense that was essentially delegated exclusively to the OC

      • Yahmule

        I think he probably also feels he’s responsible for making some of the fixes on offense. I’m sure he’s unhappy with the way the line underperformed and I saw John in enough losing press conferences to know he shoulders a large share of the blame.

        • There is some truth to this. We know Elway went with Donald Stephenson before other options in free agency to play right tackle, for example. I’m sure Elway believes he needs to do a better job evaluating personnel at certain positions, because player evaluation is always one part of the equation for a team’s success level.

          • Yahmule

            The Broncos have excelled at taking guys who failed elsewhere and turning them into quality players, but you want to extend those opportunities to street free agents. It was certainly a show of hubris to believe they could take a player from a rival and remake him. I still think Stephenson was probably hampered by a bad calf all year, but durability is a skill, too, and one that he demonstrated he lacked before we signed him.

  • Andrew

    So can this hiring be looked at as a victory for the Rooney rule? They basically interviewed him for head coach while they were actually interviewing him for DC two years ago.

  • Meanwhile, the Rams might be nearing a decision on a coach, too.

    https://twitter.com/MikeGarafolo/status/819227273496645632

    • So, Shanahan really doesn’t have many options outside of SF… is there really a big risk of losing him in the event they wait and Joseph goes somewhere else?

  • I hope the Broncos announce the coach signing with white smoke from Dove Valley.

    • RSH, Esq.

      ยกHabemus raeda!

  • The Color Orange
    • The problem isn’t Broncos it’s Joseph who reportedly wants to call plays on D.
      As for OC, likely McCoy lands in Buffalo under McDermott so candidates are Musgrave and Anthony Lynn.

      • The Color Orange

        So our offense will remain in the previous century?

        • Ha, I agree. But people will say the Raiders ranked 6th in total offense. Ya, well they fired/didn’t renew Musgrave for a reason.

      • RSH, Esq.

        It sounds as though that McCoy to Buffalo is far from finalized. All things considered, I think that McCoy would choose Denver over Buffalo.

        https://twitter.com/MikeSilver/status/819209036297928704

        • Who knows. Buffalo has a way better line and a top RB. QB status up in the air for Bills but if Taylor comes back he’s better than Broncos current QBs. Denver wins at WR, loses at TE. Both HCs are D guys, so he seemingly would have autonomy on offense in either place. Denver has a better front office that’s for sure.

          • RSH, Esq.

            It’s Buffalo. McCoy still has a wife and children, whose opinion I am sure will count for something. My guess is that McCoy would prefer to remain in the West. He is from California, went to college at Utah, etc.

          • You go where the work is in football, and take the route that will provide the quickest path back to HC.

          • RSH, Esq.

            And Buffalo has not qualified for the playoffs since the 1999 season. Have a little optimism in the fact the Broncos are a first-class organization located in the highest ranked metro area in the entire country.

          • ohiobronco

            Earn a 6 seed in Buffalo and you are in the running for assistant of the year. Lose in the Divisional or Conference round in Denver and Elway is sharpening the ax.

  • RSH, Esq.

    How bad is offensive line play currently in the NFL? According to PFF, there eight teams with worse offensive lines than the Denver Broncos.

    https://twitter.com/PFF/status/819234642226188288

    • Nick

      Well, the the next two teams (IND and ARI) they cited injuries as a concern…

      • GrizzlyB

        Yeah, that’s the worst thing — our line was awful, without significant injuries. Getting through a whole season with a healthy line is rare, and usually they perform the best. In our case… not so much.

        • CFD1983

          Paradis, not healthy, also never did get answers on Stepheson injury or Okungs, which kept him out of at least one practice every week since..

  • Nick
    • The Color Orange

      What does that mean?

      • Yahmule

        It means signing a defensive coach keeps the current mentality while allowing them to improve on the other side of the ball.

        Elway and his people have already put together historic offensive and defensive units from the ruins of a four win team in a four year span, so I figure they’re capable.

        • The Color Orange

          So hiring Shanahan but keeping Wade in charge of the defense wouldn’t allow them to keep their culture? They can only keep their culture by changing who runs the defense? That certainly makes a lot of sense.

          • Yahmule

            Wade didn’t want to be here anymore. Feel free to martyr him, but he made his choice. Elway pulled him out of imposed retirement and put him in charge of a great defense. Now he’s free to go replicate that success for the money he feels he’s worth. I’m happy for anybody in this league who gets paid.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Joseph would “allow” them to fix the offense? How considerate of him. Lol.

  • Nick

    OK, I have to head to a meeting in which I could be gone for up to 3 hours, although I’m bringing a laptop so I may have time here and there to check in. If the Broncos do hire Joseph then would someone with article posting access please create an article that’s simply titled “Broncos Hire Vance Joseph”, and maybe has a tweet or two confirming it? Thanks in advance if necessary.

  • The Color Orange

    Klis’s latest story. He says that the Broncos may promote Woods to DC because they fear losing him to another team. Even though they could block that move, as Woods is under contract. Wade is waiting to hear his fate with Denver before talking to other teams. http://www.9news.com/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/elway-expected-to-offer-vance-joseph-head-coach-job/385175408

    • Right, given they can block Woods from leaving (which Klis ignores) why not have Wade back for a year or two to really groom Woods? I’d like to see Mike McDaniel given some consideration for OC (not sure of his contract status) though if he’s available to leave it’s likely he’ll follow Shanahan… though it’s looking like Shanahan may return to Atlanta with jobs filling up fast.

      • Why are you assuming Woods is staying if they brought back Wade? The comment here points to that he’d be a hot candidate for DC for other teams, no? Am I missing something?

        • cjfarls

          Teams can block assistant coaches under contract from going to other teams, except for to HC jobs. E.g., Joseph being blocked from becoming our DC a few years ago.

  • Jeremy

    Looking up random articles about VJ and found this one from earlier this year. He says Wade Phillips had the greatest impact on his coaching career. Obviously thinks very highly of him. I bet he brings him back.

    http://www.miamidolphins.com/news/article-4/AC-In-The-AM-10-Questions-With-Vance-Joseph/4219764e-5367-42e9-ad18-24062a0a59b5

  • Hard to know what we’re getting in Joseph from an aggressiveness standpoint. Kyle Shanahan one of the most aggressive playcallers in the league, likely would carry over to game-management. My thinking is that Joseph is more like Fox and Kubes in this regard. Any thoughts on this…?

    • Jeremy

      Not agreeing or disagreeing, but what makes you think Joseph is more conservative? Coaches he’s worked under have seemed pretty aggressive (Marv Lewis, Wade Phillips, Gase)

      • His defense was less aggressive than Wade’s certainly – different personnel though. Also, apart from Gase, the head coaches he worked under aren’t all that aggressive – Kubes, Lewis (disagree with you there), Mike Nolan, and Mike Singletary…

        • Jeremy

          The defense in Cinci was pretty aggressive, right?

          • I am more talking about overall game mgmt. But yes in Cincy it was, but Joseph was a position coach there not calling plays.

          • Jeremy

            Fair. But the DC who VJ was working under and being heavily influenced by in Cincy was aggressive.

          • Paul Guenther? Appears to be aggressive but not certain without looking at deatisl… but it didn’t translate/carry over to Miami.

          • Jeremy

            The defense in Cincy was aggressive

      • Tyler

        Is Marvin Lewis aggressive? I’ll admit I haven’t paid much attention to the Bengals but I’ve never gotten the aggressive vibe from him.

    • PiperAR

      Maybe John Elway himself is a Dan Reeves disciple.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      You're just saying that because he's black...

      Did I do all that right?

      • GrizzlyB

        OMG, how do u spoiler tag????

        • Random Anonymous Coward

          <spoiler> Darth Vader was Luke Skywalker’s father all along. </spoiler>

    • ohiobronco

      Don’t know/no data would probably be the most appropriate answer.

  • Yahmule

    I will be in Vegas in March. I’m collecting money for Super Bowl future bets for whichever lucky team signs Kyle Shanahan. Sorry, but I need the money up front. Your avatars all look honest, but I’m not getting Geno Smithed over here.

    • Jeremy

      I don’t think any team with a HC vacancy, besides Denver and possibly SD or maybe Jac have any chance at a super bowl next year regardless of HC.

      • Yahmule

        I eschew the sarcasm font. I like you guys to have to work for it. ;~)

        • Jeremy

          screw you . sarcasm font/

    • Prater2Beadles4Six

      While I believe my new avatar should afford me unlimited trust, I will venmo you $0.75

  • Yahmule

    Okay, Bronco brother and sisters. The sun will shine again some day. Be well.

    • RSH, Esq.

      I do not understand why so many Broncos fans are already in a dither over Vance Joseph possibly being the head coach. We simply do not have enough information to determine whether the hiring was prudent or whether Joseph will be successful or a failure. What ever happened to giving each other the benefit of the doubt? What ever happened to hoping that another person would succeed or achieve? What ever happened to rooting for each other? If Joseph is hired, let’s give Elway, the front office, Joseph, and the yet to be formed coaching staff some leeway and discretion before we determine this decision to be misguided or catastrophic.

      • Kndh19

        It depresses me because it took such a simple seeming fix this to this team and complicated things. Keep Wade, get Kyle to fix the offense, team is better.

        Now, we may not have wade, and there’s no way you can convince me that the defense would be as good without him. Plus we don’t know who the coordinator would be, and even if it’s McCoy, I don’t think he is near as good as shanahan. So right there, this hire makes both the offense and defense worse in my mind than if Kyle was hired.

        • RSH, Esq.

          How do we know that Kyle is a leader of men? How do we know that Kyle would instantly upgrade the offense? Kyle has coached some great offenses, but he has also coached some mediocre and bad offenses. Kyle also is in a strange position due to his father’s history with the Broncos. I am going to trust that Elway & Co. made a deliberate, thoughtful, reasoned decision. Given Elway’s track record, I think that deference is merited.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            The deference is of course merited… But that doesnt help us understand anything or explain why… Isn’t that really the interesting thing?

          • PiperAR

            Yes, but also the least likely to be fully known by the fans. The team will give its official statement, which can be accepted at face value. Or, fans can parse over discarded tea leaves and revile in conspiracy theories, like Shanahan was the first choice but Denver wouldn’t wait on him.

          • Kndh19

            How do we know that Vance is a leader of men? How do we know that Vance would instantly upgrade the offense or defense? Vance has coached 1 bad defense as dc.

            We don’t know any of these things. Based on history though, I believe my thoughts are more likely to happen in the future, and that’s what worries me.

          • RSH, Esq.

            Exactly. None of us know. That is why I am given Elway & Co. deference on this. He and the front office have a lot more information and knowledge than I do.

          • Kndh19

            They all know a lot more than we all do. Just based on the information available to me, my preference was for shanahan and wade to stick around.

        • “there’s no way you can convince me that the defense would be as good without him. ” — uh, because it’s full of talent and someone like Joe woods is probably highly regarded for a reason and Wade will only likely coach for another year or two anyway? But other than that you’re right, there’s no convincing you. ๐Ÿ˜‰

          The broncos were hiring a HEAD COACH, not a coordinator. Kyle is great at fixing offenses but how do you or any of us know what kind of leader of men he will be at all the other things? We still need both a good offensive coordinator AND to bring in more talent on offense.

          That is such an eeyore comment (no offense, sincerely).

          • Kndh19

            Replacing one of the best DC’s of all time with a first time coordinator and thinking he will be as good seems a little optimistic to me.

            And of course none of these things are known. It seems reasonable to me that shanahan, who is known as a great offensive mind that he would have a better affect on the offense than Vance and co.

        • PiperAR

          There’s no guarantee Wade would stay if Shanahan was HC, and it’s not a foregone conclusion that Wade is gone if VJ is.

          • No no, it's all written and decided Piper. Didn't you hear? ๐Ÿ˜‰

          • PiperAR

            Must be written down in that Book of Revolutions or something.

          • Kndh19

            My argument to that is they should have resigned wade in the first place and not let it get to this point at all.

          • PiperAR

            My first choice is Kyle Shanahan with Wade as DC. But forcing an assistant on a HC, even Wade, is not a good move.

      • Yahmule

        People couldn’t be freaking harder if Elway rehired McDaniels. In fact, he would likely have a larger percentage of ardent defenders than Joseph: he’ll fix offense; he learned his lesson; he said he was sorry.

        • Clockwork Orange

          MHR would have a six foot erection if McDaniels were re-hired. They were practically his PR firm during his reign of error here.

          • cjfarls

            MHR was both overrepresented in irrational McD hatred far beyond his errors, as well as in McD justification/excuses.
            The biggest thing I like about here/IAOFM is the truth is almost always more near the middle.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Where are they freaking out? Not here, right?

        • RSH, Esq.

          It is mostly on Twitter and Mile High Report.

        • Yahmule

          Type Vance Joseph into Twitter and the negative sentiment in running over 90%. Here’s there’s just a prevailing sense of disappointment.

          • Clockwork Orange

            Not much surprise there. This fanbase can be as insufferable as any other.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Some of my very least favorite people are among those in the stadium with me on Sundays.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Nah, I’ll just stay right here. The fewer idiots I interact with over the course of a day the better off I am.

          • InSiemianWeTrust

            Can’t say I’m surprised. I bet some people want to see his birth certificate.

            GO VJ, GO BRONCOS!

      • drewthorn

        I’ve never understood the relentlessly critical fan. In this case, though, there are people who believe coaching and scheme transcend talent. I don’t agree with that myself, but I can understand, coming from that view point, how somebody would consider VJ a nonsensical choice.

        • cjfarls

          Every coach has a scheme. Some coaches adapt their scheme to the talent around them, some coaches acquire/adapt the talent to the scheme they want to run.

          The real “innovative” stuff tends to come from the latter, but the former may be easier to execute because it is tailored to the player’s strengths, even if its less innovative. Both require and try to maximize talent-scheme harmony, but in the former you change the scheme, and in the latter you the change players.

          We have no idea whether Joseph is the former or the latter, but probably leans to the former. We’ll get some idea based on who he brings in as coordinators. In contrast, K Shanahan was definitely the latter.

          Which plays out better on game-day?… neither is inherently superior.

          • drewthorn

            I think if VJ had a top 5 D in 2015 and KS’s unit was 29, VJ would have been the overwhelming fan favorite. Throw in the fact that there is the assumption that Shanahan would have magically ‘fixed’ the offense, and you have the makings of a PR route favoring one guy over the other. That’s what I was getting at.

            If VJ is D.C., and the D struggles, then VJ isn’t much of a coach.

            If Kubiak is calling the plays, and they don’t work well, it’s because Kubiak isn’t much of a coach.

            Etc, etc, etc.

            If that is how you see it, then this is inevitably frustrating hire.

      • The Color Orange

        Some people preferred Kyle Shanahan. Simple as that. Are you actually suggesting that those who did are hoping that Joseph fails? That’s ludicrous. I strongly supported Shanahan but nothing would make me happier than seeing Joseph win the next four Super Bowls.

  • RSH, Esq.
  • PiperAR

    If SF is the only team still with interest in Kyle Shanahan, does he stay in Atlanta and wait for greener pastures next year? Or indicate that he and dad are a package deal?
    Kyle Shanahan = Luke Skywalker
    Mike = Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader
    Jed York = Emperor Palpatine President Skroob

    • If that’s true (SF) then I’d definitely stay in Atlanta and wait, because there is such a dearth of talent in SF and so many issues with ownership and who knows who the GM officially will be, it’s a hot mess, stay away Kyle!

      • PiperAR

        But Mike and Kyle could rule the Bay as father and son.
        Kyle: I’ll NEVER join you!
        Mike: You were on my staff in Washington.

        • T. Jensen

          NOOOOOOOOOO!

        • InSiemianWeTrust

          Hahah this is too good!

    • RSH, Esq.

      Posted below.

    • Yahmule

      Wade will need to be cloned for all the jobs he’s been linked to already.

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Also if 30 year old McVay doesn’t land THE job, let’s bring him in as OC.

  • A bit hard to focus on Broncos related news today for obvious reasons ๐Ÿ˜‰
    but I’m mostly fine with all this. I think VJ seems like good guy to lead, I’m mostly still worried about offense, but can’t comment on that really until we actually know who is who OFFICIALLY, rather than just conjecture, since nothing is official.

  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.
  • RSH, Esq.
    • T. Jensen

      Happy and sad, I really wanted Kyle but think Vance can be a good HC if he can find the right guy to mentor our QB’s.

    • Brian

      For me, this is meh.

  • Random Anonymous Coward

    “Vance Joseph is a total class act”

    – Every single announcer on every single game from now on.

  • T. Jensen

    Now I just hope Kyle stays out of the AFC (specifically the west)

  • Josh Carney โ€@JCarney_Sports 3h3 hours ago
    Sounds like Wade Phillips will be staying in Denver as DC under Vance Joseph.

    • GrizzlyB

      Really really hope so. I preferred Joseph to Shanahan when it looked like he wouldn’t be throwing out the defensive staff and running it himself, but that’s kinda turned on its head from what I’ve heard in the past few hours.

      Of course, that tweet is a few hours old, so…

    • Equally important, actually more important, is OC. No McCoy or Musgrave please.

      • RSH, Esq.

        Why not?

      • PiperAR

        What’s wrong with Musgrave?

  • RSH, Esq.

    I have a meeting at 12:45 p.m. MST. I can post a hiring thread if official word comes down before then.

  • Random Anonymous Coward

    Who are the OC candidates ?

    • Musgrave?

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        F That

    • RSH, Esq.

      Mike McCoy and Bill Musgrave.

    • RagnarRagnarsson

      We heard McCoy. Hope there is someone more exciting / fresh.

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        Well McCoy made his offenses work with terribad offensive lines, he’s a perfect fit.

  • Just added a thread about the Vance Joseph hiring, given that it sounds like a confirmation from the Broncos is a formality at this point.

    http://in-thinair.com/2017/01/11/breaking-vance-joseph-expected-to-be-named-broncos-head-coach/

    • Back to being an OC or position coach…

  • As I said before, another hiring cycle will end without McDnaiels getting a HC job. No way will he be an NFL HC again outside of maybe in Cleveland. Surprised about Patricia… by all accounts general intelligence and football sense high, must not be a “leader of men,” a phrase we’ve heard over and over concerning Joseph.

    • Andrew

      I wonder if teams are gun shy on the belichuk tree at this point o’brien is probably the most successful one and he was close to getting shit canned.

  • RSH, Esq.
    • PiperAR

      Why #70 was never O-Line coach in Denver is beyond me.

      • Random Anonymous Coward

        <code> Sarcasm: the last refuge of modest and chaste-souled people when the privacy of their soul is coarsely and intrusively invaded </code>

  • The Color Orange
    • InSiemianWeTrust

      As in Elway squinted, and said “Unless…”?

      Suggesting the Broncos FO wants more McLovin.

      • The Color Orange

        Perhaps this is why the Raiders decided to let Musgrave go. They knew other teams were coming after Downing, and they wanted him more.

    • The Color Orange
  • SterlingMalloryArcher

    Vance Joseph will immediately begin to win favor with me if we soon hear an announcement regarding a new contract for Wade Phillips. And I can live with Mike McCoy or Bill Musgrave, through a fresh face like Todd Downing may have excited me more.

    • Carsonic

      Don’t know if this has been posted or not. https://twitter.com/alexmarvez/status/817121394681122817

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Well shit. I wanted 1. Shanahan HC; 2. Wade DC; and 3. If no Shanahan HC, then a young, cutting edge, innovative tactician at OC. Took the collar. 0 for 3.

        So now I hope 1. That Joseph is indeed the type of leader whom players will run through a brick wall for; 2. that McCoy is at least 80% the offensive mind that Shanahan is; and that 3. Joe Woods’ defensive strategy is a strikingly similar / slightly nuanced version of Wade Phillips’ own strategy. Will I have better luck with the second wishlist?

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Maybe we can get Sammy Winder out of retirement… #3ydsandacloudofdust

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            600 yards and half a dozen TDs from the #1 RB… WHERE DO I SIGN UP FOR THAT?!!

          • Sparks

            The Broncos signed up for that when they signed CJ to that big contract. CJ’s average stats per year over 3 years (taking rookie year out as he hardly played) – 668.67 yds, 5.67 TD’s. ๐Ÿ™‚

        • Carsonic

          Exactly me, too.

    • Steven_Searls

      Musgrave was fired because the Raiders were afraid of losing Downing.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Looks like there’s been some action this morning.

    My 2 cents. I was hoping for Kyle. Both coordinators would be first time head coaches so there’s a big question mark there. Kyle has a stronger track record no doubt as a coordinator. By all accounts, Vance has stronger track record with leadership (although this is harder to quantify). I don’t think anyone is badmouthing Kyle, but you don’t hear other coaches and players literally climbing over themselves to vouch for his leadership and interpersonal skills, which you do for Vance. Not to mention Elway was so impressed they almost gave him the job 2 years ago.

    In a personnel vacuum, I would prefer Vance because of the aforementioned perceived desirable HC intangibles. In reality, with Lynch and TS on the roster, I thought it made sense to get Kyle – for continuity and development. At the end of the day, I’m sure this is something the FO factored in, and they still went with Vance. That means quite a lot to me.

    As fans, we’re clearly working with limited info. If the FO makes a decision, I assume they made a well informed decision after accounting for all variables. I think they have earned more than the benefit of a doubt. That doesn’t mean they are infallible or that we can’t be critically if things don’t work out. Im hoping it does, for whoever the coaching staff ends up being. I’m rooting for the Broncos.

    • BlackKnigh

      Certainly agree on keeping Wade. Even with a 3 yr contract – which would probably be his last rodeo. That kind of defensive talent doesn’t fall off trees. Plus Woods put together one helluva “No Fly Zone” secondary!

  • Snatch Mouth

    I’m thinking that John Elway thought he let one get away when he didn’t hire him two years ago and he’s damn lucky to have the chance to rehire in this round. There’s definitely something that he knows that we all don’t and this trait and skill of being a leader of men and getting the absolute most out of his players is very important because a lot of the times in the press conferences with Gary Kubiak you kept hearing them say that it’s different now about what head coach has to do with controlling the players. There is some history out there that Vance helped keep the CU buffaloes together as he was their backup quarterback when the players were going to pieces in the locker-room cancer style. I think this year was a big challenge with the personalities on our team with the absence of Peyton Manning excuse me, Payton Mother Fuckin’ Manning, So with open arms I must say welcome Vance Joseph to the Denver Broncos!

    PS get ready for the entire universe to confuse him with Vance Johnson ๐Ÿ™‚

    • Sparks

      Hey, as long as they hire Mark Jackson as OC and Ricky Nattiel as DC, we’re in good hands. ๐Ÿ™‚

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Updated Walter Big Board.

    CMC listed above both OTs.

    https://walterfootball.com/nfldraftbigboard

  • Rhett Rothberg

    I think there is some truth to this…

    https://twitter.com/KraigKennicutt/status/819371704891781124

    • Tyler

      I doubt it. The talk when Lynch was drafted was the West Coast Offense was a perfect fit for him. Now Elway has hired a HC who is getting rid of that offense. If anything I bet this is a sign that Siemian is here to stay.

      • Siemian is here to stay… as a bery good backup.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        A great man once said, “We’re fixin’ to find out”.

        I do think though that there does have to be some choice. I’m not sure that a QB competition between TS and PL is a healthy thing

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Elway dumped Tebow because he couldn’t play. I don’t think he thought for a second about fans’ opinions.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Not so sure about that, but there can be multiple reasons for a QBs departure

      • Jeremy

        He dumped Tebow because we signed Manning and Tebow had decent trade value at the time.

    • GrizzlyB

      I think it’s funny that people are so insistent that Lynch is Elway’s guy and that Elway will take every possible measure to ensure his success, including forcibly eliminating his competition, on the basis that we traded one pick to move up for him in a crappy draft the season after we lost a HOFer and let a somewhat lower draft pick walk at the QB position. I mean, no matter how you look at it, we have more invested into Shane Ray than we do Paxton Lynch.

      But that’s OK, even a dude who thinks an Assassin’s Creed collection belongs in a list of top-5 video games has opinions worth discussing… I guess. ยฏ_(ใƒ„)_/ยฏ

      • Rhett Rothberg

        I think the point is that we have a lot more invested in Lynch than we do TSizzlebiscuits…

        I’m more of a Prince of Persia or Out of this World fan myself

      • InSiemianWeTrust

        Assassin’s Creed? Are you shitting me?

    • Clifton Jackman

      Not much to see here. You forget that Siemian was also an Elway draft pick as well. I think, he was being honest when he said he liked both these guys. We’ll see what we see, and I think how the Offensive staff shakes out will determine a lot of what happens with the QB’s including chasing a guy like Romo.

      • BlackKnigh

        My take is the job is Trevor’s so long as he can keep it. He will be much tougher to unseat next season. Lynch has a lot to learn – and I think Elway knows that.
        Why the big deal about a 7th round pick? Brady was a 6th rounder – as was TD. Mecklenburg came in way late in the draft as well – something like the 13th round?

  • InSiemianWeTrust
    • GrizzlyB

      Are there any memes or image macros or whatever of Dean Spanos and family telling San Diego to go fuck themselves?

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Don’t want this one to get lost in the storm. Wish him the best in the recovery process.

    https://twitter.com/two_dice/status/819343257939361792

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    Great video showcasing Vance’s coaching prowess. Superficial due to the target audience, but a good example of his communication skills. A little X and O for SMA.

    http://prod.video.texans.clubs.nfl.com/HOU/Videos/Xs_Os_Vance_Joseph_7_21_11.mp4

  • Kyle Milligan

    dddffggg