• RSH, Esq.
  • The Color Orange

    Despite not spending “one minute” thinking about his future, it appears that Vance Joseph has been interviewing offensive coordinator candidates. Alex Marvez tweeted that the Joseph-McCoy ticket is “gaining steam” in Denver, and he linked to his own story: http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/news/nfl-coaching-rumors-vance-joseph-denver-broncos-head-coach-mike-mccoy-offensive-coordinator/1v4f67sw0gge51ub02xzgumvsc?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

    • ohiobronco

      McCoy as far as I can tell has been a Erhardt-Perkins guy his entire coaching career. Are we comfortable having our young QBs start from scratch with completely new playbook terminology? Big deal or not? We heard a lot last offseason about Siemian benefiting from a second year in the offense and many were expecting Lynch to have the same benefit this offseason.

      • Benjamin Funderburk

        If the Broncos hire the Jospeh-McCoy ticket, I suspect its with a long term view in mind and what kind of system/coaching culture Elway and company want to employ going forward. Regardless of who we hire, it would be nice to have some long term stability with our Head Coach.

        • ohiobronco

          True, but the short term affects the long term. You set your young QBs back like that and you decrease the odds of one panning out. Frequent system changes are a very common thread in QB busts. Lynch in particular has been widely reported to have been struggling with pro terminology as it is.

          • Kyle Milligan

            I know very little, but wouldn’t the Eheardt Perkins offense simplify the terminology?
            Im open for corrections but I thought that Kubiaks plays were west coast, ” 46 z slant X stick y out blast” type shit, where E.P. would be like,” levels.”

          • RSH, Esq.

            You are absolutely correct, Kyle.

            To oversimplify, the West Coast offense, made famous by Bill Walsh and still the most popular system in the NFL, uses what is essentially a memory system. On running plays, the same two-digit numbering system as most NFL and college teams is used. Passing plays, however, are typically denoted by the primary receiver’s route, such as Z-In, X-Hook, while the rest of the players are required to memorize their tasks. This system is as old as football itself, which is no surprise given that Walsh’s onetime mentor Paul Brown is credited as much as anyone with inventing the modern conception of huddles, game plans, and play calls. For more than 20 years, this system has been the dominant one in the NFL.

            . . .

            The backbone of the Erhardt-Perkins system is that plays — pass plays in particular — are not organized by a route tree or by calling a single receiver’s route, but by what coaches refer to as “concepts.” Each play has a name, and that name conjures up an image for both the quarterback and the other players on offense. And, most importantly, the concept can be called from almost any formation or set. Who does what changes, but the theory and tactics driving the play do not. “In essence, you’re running the same play, said Perkins. You’re just giving them some window-dressing to make it look different.

            The biggest advantage of the concept-based system is that it operates from the perspective of the most critical player on offense: the quarterback. In other systems, even if the underlying principles are the exact same, the play and its name might be very different. Rather than juggling all this information in real time, an Erhardt-Perkins quarterback only has to read a given arrangement of receivers. You can cut down on the plays and get different looks from your formations and who’s in them. It’s easier for the players to learn. “It’s easier for the quarterback to learn,” former Patriots offensive coordinator Charlie Weis said back in 2000. “You get different looks without changing his reads. You don’t need an open-ended number of plays.”

            http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

          • ohiobronco

            That is a great article. I still have concerns about a complete change of language in years 2 and 3 respectively for the QBs.

        • The Color Orange

          But Shanahan could give you that long term stability while building off of the system you already have in place.

      • PiperAR

        Shanahan is the best hope for Lynch. Having PL as a pocket passer, would not be good. He isn’t BigBen.

        Siemian I think is scheme versitle, maybe EP would be better for him even.

    • This is interesting from the article. Coupled with no excitement over McCoy fixing/running offense, I think that the reports of Joseph not wanting to keep Wade have absolutely derailed any local/fan support for Joseph:

      “While Joseph is considered a lock within league circles, there is the possibility that tepid local support for his hiring could cause the Broncos to shift to another candidate to replace Gary Kubiak, who resigned last Monday because of health concerns. Joseph’s injury-riddled Dolphins defense allowed the most yards in franchise history and was butchered by the Steelers in Sunday’s 30-12 playoff loss.”

      • PiperAR

        I want Wade to stay. But if he is at a point in his life where it’s year to year, maybe Elway wants all changes at once.

        • Yahmule

          This is the type of decision these guys have to make all the time. Woods oversaw a historically great secondary the last two seasons and the Broncos are understandably impressed. They can retain this hot DC prospect, relatively inexpensively, for a number of seasons. As you say, Wade has 34 years in the game and he might be ready to retire soon.

          Obviously there will be other qualified DC candidates available the year Wade retires, but here again, we’re talking about a level of familiarity that the team has with Woods that we can’t begin to understand.

    • PiperAR

      I mean, I wouldn’t grab a pitchfork and torch, but McCoy excites me not at all.

  • RSH, Esq.
    • and they’ll probably still cover. :/ Because Houston on the road in NE is… possibly gonna be a Tebow-esque playoff result.

    • Jeremy

      What were the Broncos in the super bowl against Green bay? 17 points?

      • Nick

        Wikipedia is telling me 11. I’m sure you could have found some NFC homer to give you 17 back then, though.

        • ohiobronco

          PFR concurs with 11.

          • Alaskan

            I remember it as 11.
            That was the reason I was in no hurry to get home from skiing to see the game.
            Only saw from the 2nd qrt on (although I have seen the whole thing plenty of times since then).

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        I think it was 13, or close to it.

        • Yahmule

          I was living in Vegas at the time and it went as high as 13 and never got under 11. There really is no “official” closing line. There are hundreds of places to lay action, in person, online or over the phone. There’s no prevailing authority on this stuff.

    • ohiobronco

      Broncos were 12.5 pt favorites over Jacksonville in the game that shall not be mentioned ever. Somehow I can’t picture Osweiler pulling a Brunnell.

      • RSH, Esq.

        Michael Dean Perry will not be playing for New England and Red Cashion will not be the head official.

  • Joseph interviewing in Denver Tuesday. Pretty sure with Elway’s last two searches the last candidate to interview got the job. Brace yourself for the underwhelming ticket of Joseph/McCoy/Woods.
    ://twitter.com/MikeKlis/status/818291088742121474

    • this is not addressed at you or anyone here at all, but I discovered yesterday so many Broncos fans )on Twitter) are vehemently against Joseph’s hiring for somewhat deplorable reasons that I’m kind of rooting for it as a contrarian who wants to weed out the hateful. (One guy replying to Klis said Tomlin was overrated and “Joseph would be another Perry Fewell” – hm, what do they all have in common?) But again, I get the more legit concerns about him.

      Tell you what though, IEWT. I trust them to pick whoever they think will be the best leader for this team. I will still worry about the offense, but they are hiring a head coach, not a coordinator. (Not anti-McCoy myself but I do get why people would want someone new and shiny and innovative.)

      • Though I’d prefer Shanahan, I like Joseph… just not enthused about his rumored coordinator choices. Would way rather Mike McDaniel (in line to be Atlanta’s OC if Shanahan gets a HC job) or even Knapp, and while Woods may be a coach on the rise it leaves the defense with a HC and DC that have one yr. total game planning/calling D experience as opposed to Wade’s 30 some yr. (with a great track record). Of course, you’re right we ultimately know very little to Elway and the front office who do this for a living and are actually interviewing these candidates. Joseph or Shanahan could be Mike McCarthy, Mike Tomlin or John Harbaugh or flame outs like Pat Shurmur, Mike Pettine or Raheem Morris.

        • The Color Orange

          Woods is a promising candidate. The DBs love him and credit their success to the amount of film he makes them watch. He’s apparently a film junkie. However, if he does well, he’ll be gone for a head coaching position, so he’s not a long term solution. That’s the best thing about Wade: he’s here as long as you want him, and you can always keep Woods around for when Wade hangs it up.

          • Agreed, made that point a few days ago. Jettisoning Wade makes little sense now unless there are teams trying to poach Woods for DC… but I think he’s under contract for another yr. so Denver can block that.

          • T. Jensen

            That would be my ideal situation. Kyle as HC and Wade as DC for a year or two to help mentor him with woods stepping in once Wade retires.

        • All fair – McDaniel (not plural, whew) would be great as rumored he could follow Shanahan around or he could replace him in Atlanta. This may sound wishy washy but I like all three rumored candidates including Toub, they each seem like they would bring a lot of positives to the team in their own way. Obviously with VJ the concern is really what happens to fix the offense.

      • Yahmule

        This is certainly no surprise.

      • Andrew

        I think I have similar thoughts regarding the whole thing at this point. I don’t really have a strong opinion on who should get the job, because I’m not in the meetings/interviews to even have the info to form a strong opinion. What’s Elways vision of the future of the team? How do the plans that Joseph, Toub, and Shanahan have compare? All we have to go off of is speculation by “insiders” so I’m not going to get to worried about much until we see how things play out.

      • T. Jensen

        I’m not a big Tomlin fan personally I think he’s a bit overrated. He inherited a great team with a great DC and a great QB. He’s got one of the better owners in all of sports to help him along.

        I like Joseph as my 2nd option mainly because I don’t think his hire improves the defense and doubt his OC will improve the offense as much as someone like Kyle. Hiring Kyle should allow our QB’s to continue to grow and shouldn’t affect the defense too much (even if Wade were to leave)

        Having said that I was fairly disappointed (at the time) that cincy denied us Joseph and we ended up with the “hasbeen” of Phillips, so what the hell do I know?

    • The Color Orange

      It’s interesting the way the front office seems to be trying to manipulate public opinion. They let it be known that Joseph was the leading candidate. Then when organization mouthpiece Mike Klis started getting out of line, they smacked him down. When public outcry over Joseph intensified, they leaked the Mike McCoy thing. “Go see if the fans will shut up if we tell them we’re bringing back Mike McCoy.” They’re fighting an uphill battle with the fans, though, as Kyle Shanahan is perhaps the most clear and obvious choice for a particular head coaching position that ever existed.

      • It is weird, you’re right. Should have just shut up and gone about their business of hiring the best HC and staff in their opinion without leaking anything to the public. Seeing Klis reverse course was funny though.

      • Yahmule

        I like the presumption that all information swirling about this has to be a deliberate leak from the team to manipulate public opinion and not just the organic way every story transmogrifies on the internet.

    • RSH, Esq.

      With all due respect, how do we know that Joseph, McCoy, and Woods will be underwhelming? Mike McCarthy’s offense was 30th in scoring and 32nd in yardage as San Francisco’s offensive coordinator before he was hired to be Green Bay’s head coach. There is no guarantee that Kyle Shanahan will be a great leader of an entire football team even though he has a brilliant offensive mind. Whoever John Elway & Co. hire, I am willing to give them the benefit of the doubt on. Elway’s last hire won a Super Bowl in his first season. All we have is speculation currently. Let’s see how this plays out, and wait until the coaching staff is assembled and starts putting a finished product on the field before we make ultimate conclusions.

      • Yahmule

        With all due respect, did you think Unc wouldn’t be moping around like Eeyore throughout this process?

        • Ha, thanks. To RSH, you’re right I don’t know for sure. Def. bummed about potentially giving up all of Wade’s experience/success but I understand Woods may be a great coach and earned the opportunity. I can be more certain about McCoy… as he spent 4 yrs. in Denver under Fox. and then we saw flounder as SD’s head coach. He’s vanilla (perhaps that’s an upgrade over what we saw from the offense this yr.) and doesn’t really fit the direction of the offense, where it’s supposed to be headed based on personnel anyway. He gets too much credit for “adjusting” to Tebow and the Manning offense got better with Gase as OC rather than McCoy, right?

          • The Color Orange

            And people who were here for the Tebow thing should remember that McCoy was vehemently opposed to it and wanted to stick with Orton because he thought Tebow would ruin his chances of becoming a head coach.

          • RSH, Esq.

            More speculation:

            The Broncos ultimately want someone who will keep the defense intact and fix the offense. The reported intent to bring former Broncos offensive coordinator and Chargers coach Mike McCoy back to Denver may address the latter point. As to the former, one source with knowledge of the source recently took issue with the notion that Joseph automatically would move on from defensive coordinator Wade Phillips, promoting current Broncos defensive backs coach Joe Wods into the job. Phillips remains on the radar screen in Denver, and the desire for continuity applies across the board. Phillips remains on the radar screen in Denver, and the desire for continuity applies across the board.

            http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2017/01/09/vance-joseph-could-quickly-end-up-with-a-head-coaching-job/

          • Russ

            It is interesting/telling that we have not heard any rumors *recently* about Wade interviewing other places.

      • Jeremy

        I tend to agree, but as Rhett says, “appeal to authority leads to very boring football discussions”

        • Yahmule

          It’s not an appeal to authority to point out John Elway actually interviews these guys while none of us possess so much as a press pass, except Bob.

          • ohiobronco

            Unlike players, coaches’ work happens primarily behind closed doors. This makes it nearly impossible to estimate the skills of a prospective first time head coach from the outside.

          • Jeremy

            Didn’t stop people from being quite critical of the way Kubiak handled the offense, or the jobs any of our offensive position coaches did.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            It is an appeal to authority, but not in the context of the logical fallacy where a non-authority is appealed to as though they are one…

            Yes, Elway is supreme being in this case… But I don’t want Jeezus to take the wheel… I want to take the wheel and see where this thing goes…

          • RSH, Esq.

            That does not sound very Hamiltonian in the least bit. πŸ™‚

          • Yahmule

            The logical fallacy at work here is that of presumption. People take a small piece of information (often inaccurate or misstated) and extrapolate it into whatever suits their purposes.

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Enjoyed this comment today πŸ˜‰

      • Broncos777

        And the team leadership knows those three coaches inside and out. Fans who think they know better than the team might be underwhelmed–and certainly the team has made some underwhelming hires in the past–but there is also a lot of reason to think they would be great picks.

        • Yahmule

          What underwhelming hires have they made, though? Fox was a perfect coach to oversee a turnaround. The other guys out there were Harbaugh – probably the only better candidate, but he had no NFL experience; Rivera who has been okay; Frazier, Shurmur and Munchak who all failed and Hue Jackson was handed a leaky bag of shit in Oakland like he was in Cleveland last year.

          So, John had seven choices and he wound up with, at worst, the second best guy.

          The year we hired Kubiak, he was the prohibitive favorite, but the other options haven’t done better. Dan Quinn has had great season, but he went 8-8 with a negative point differential in 2015; Del Rio and Fox weren’t options; Rex flamed out again; Bowles is staggering and Tomsula was a joke hire.

          Kubiak is the only one with a ring and the only who could have maneuvered our QB situation so deftly in 2015.

          • I’ll agree with you there. At the time, Fox was the best option and Elway knew when to cut bait on him. The problem is, as with most hiring cycles, there’s just not a lot of good candidates. After Belichick are there even 7 current HCs that you’d consider better options than Kyle Shanahan, Joseph or Toub?

          • Yahmule

            This is analogous to how the backup quarterback in the most popular guy in town. Those three hot coaching candidates have zero track record, so it’s 100% projection as to how well they’ll do in the NFL as head coaches. Forget the established winners who have been able to hold down jobs for years, how well do you know McAdoo or Quinn or Gruden or Zimmer? They all have rabid supporters and they’ve all experienced some success.

            I play roto baseball against the best players in the country and I still see people over project relatively unknown commodities all the time. They will overdraft, or overbid in an auction for a rookie and be satisfied if he hits numbers that a boring nine year veteran will put up much more cheaply because they’re all dreaming that the kid will bust out big. Most of the time he doesn’t.

            Statistically speaking, at least one out of Shanahan/Joseph/Toub will fail and it wouldn’t be shocking to see them all get fired. Like Belichick and Mike Shanahan and Pete Carroll and Tom Coughlin.

          • drewthorn

            Having to settle for Wade Phillips was probably the last ‘underwhelming’ hiring. Him being an elderly husk of the coach he never really was and all. And damn if that wasn’t quintessential Elway hubris. Sat around waiting to make a cronie hire and thus missed on legit D.C. genius-in-waiting candidates.

            As I’ve always said about Elway: Dude has a serious grudge against success and common sense. He can be counted on to monkey fuck a thing with the best of them.

          • Broncos777

            Very true, I don’t have any issues with Elway’s hires.

      • The Color Orange

        I don’t think that was Rico’s point. He didn’t say that Joseph, McCoy and Woods will do poorly here, He said the ticket is underwhelming. I think that’s a fair point. You combine a poor defensive coordinator with someone who’s never been a coordinator with a fair to mediocre offensive coordinator, and you get “underwhelming.” Whereas you combine Kyle Shanahan and Wade Phillips, I don’t think anyone can call that “underwhelming.” No one can see the future, but there’s no reason not to offer opinions on the choices. If everything is going to be “trust Elway, let’s see if it works,” then why not just shut down this whole page?

        • Thanks, better than I could have responded and accurate.

        • RSH, Esq.

          How was I to interpret the plain language of “Brace yourself for the underwhelming ticket of Joseph/McCoy/Woods.”? Underwhelm means to fail to impress. I simply responded in kind about giving the front office the benefit of the doubt and that we are currently dealing with all sorts of conjecture. We are not Indianapolis or Cleveland, here.

        • Yahmule

          People are making value judgments with pitifully little information. John Elway – who wants to win more than any of us and has his personal reputation at stake – has actually spoken with these men on several occasions. Maybe Joseph comes off a lot better in the interview process. He seems like the personality type Elway prefers. He has the same kind of thoughtful demeanor Kubiak does.

      • InSiemianWeTrust

        Before he was hired to coach GB? You mean before he fell into the lap of Aaron Rodgers?

        I’m equally skeptical of Kyle and Vance as HCs, but the FO has my confidence.

        • That’s because of the 32 HCs, how many are actually good? Belichick is at the top and it’s not even close. After BB there’s a small group that are actually good HCs and the rest are guys that will go back to coordinator or position coach roles after flaming out (like McCoy).

          • RSH, Esq.

            And Belichick flamed out following his first head coaching job mainly because he coached for a terrible franchise led by a terrible owner. He went back to be a coordinator and position coach for a number of years until he became a head coach again.

          • Yahmule

            He flamed out because his type A on steroids personality couldn’t handle the job. In 1995, his fourth year on the job I might add, he had his heart set on TE Kyle Brady in the first round. Of course, the Jets, being allergic to success, ignored the fat sweaty losers in the balcony scream-chanting “SAPP, SAPP, SAPP!” and they took Kyle Brady with the ninth pick. Now, I’m not going to crap on a guy who started in the NFL for 13 years, but Kyle Brady was never a star.

            People remember the Jets (and ten other teams) passing on Sapp, but people forget that Bill Belichick had an absolute meltdown after the Jets took his man. The rest of the Browns staff literally had to bring him back to the war room because he was off throwing a hissy fit. Then he drafted a linebacker who never started a game in three NFL seasons.

            Shanahan’s time in Los Angeles was much worse, though. Hated at least as hard as we hated McDaniels all the way down to the semi-serious “double-agent” talk.

          • BlackKnigh

            Shanny would not allow the Raiders players to sit on their helmets. That probably did him in as much as anything. Also his fights with Al Davis. Davis did not want him to run 3 WR sets.

        • RSH, Esq.

          Absolutely. My whole point is that none of us knows how this will turn out. There seems to be a narrative in the media and with many fans that because Joseph’s defense got abused by one of the best offenses in the NFL yesterday and that because Miami struggled at times on defense this season, that ipso facto, Joseph will not be a good head coach.

      • gobroncos

        One thing that while we may show optimism about Vance, if you look at every twitter reply where a dolphins fan posted, they say take him. They don’t want him. Sure, they’re fickle fans, but it’s not like they’re clamoring to keep the guy. I have my doubts too.

    • iowabronco

      Or is it Elway posturing indirectly for Shanahan to help with negotiations? Either way, I trust John Elway to run the operation more than DMac, Klis, and other random armchair tweeting GMs.

      • Paco Alonzo

        Damn you!!!! That is what I was thinking. Definitely something that Elway would do judging from his past negotiations.

        • iowabronco

          Well Paco, great minds think alike, right? Worst way to negotiate is to say you’ve already made the decision before you make it…..I think he enjoys the strategy/posturing with dealmaking, and overall has been really good at it. Hope the trend continues….

  • drewthorn

    I haven’t seen a defense get prison raped lby the Steelers like the Dolphins did yesterday since at least December 20, 2015.

  • Posted this late last night so reposting since it’s a solid breakdown: http://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/01/top-3-offseason-needs-denver-broncos

    • Snipe

      Sounds about right. Wonder if we will keep Okung?

      • I have mixed feelings about that one, it’s a tough call. He wasn’t great but he’s better than many of the other options and it’s very unlikely they can find a LT alternative in the draft especially one who can step in next season. The idea of not picking up the option but then renegotiating makes some sense, then. Basically, I’d bring him back, but at reduced rate. (If possible.)

        • BlackKnigh

          I would build around Okung , Paradis and possibly Garcia, Schofield, Sambrailo and Frentz being the swing guys. That means signing 3 other guys. Also the departure of Stephenson – which is pretty much a given around here. It would also mean spending some moola on upgrading the line.

    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      That is a very solid breakdown. I would just add a potential upgrade over Todd Davis at ILB. Otherwise they pretty much covered it.

      • Yeah basically some up the middle upgrades on defense would make sense (via draft as well as FA). Davis is fine to keep around but can definitely upgrade over him and we obviously need to beef up run D up the middle.

    • gobroncos

      Donald Stephenson is one of the top 10 cap hits next year?! Holy crap. That surprised me. Glad they’re dumping his ass.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        I’m not 100% certain they will dump him. He has definitely underperformed his contract, but cap room is somewhat plentiful and he’s still leaps and bounds better than Sambrailo. Even if they sign a new starting RT in free agency, it might make sense to keep Stephenson as the swing tackle and dump Sambrailo despite his much lower cap number.

        • The problem with your argument is Stephenson’s salary becomes fully guaranteed if he’s on the roster by the fifth day of the 2017 league year, meaning he’ll be paid the money no matter what happens to him. That’s not the case with Sambrailo, who must make the final roster after training camp to get his salary.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            That certainly works in Sambrailo’s favor, but what if the coaching staff has come to the (likely correct) conclusion that he simply doesn’t belong in the NFL?

          • That will be determined through what happens in the offseason, ranging from what Sambrailo does to who the Broncos acquire along the way.

            And while you want to have better players on the offensive line, keep in mind that you shouldn’t cut somebody before you have a replacement on board unless that player’s cap hit or salary is not justified based on his performance.

            Stephenson has $4M in salary that becomes fully guaranteed and a $5M cap hit and that’s not justifiable based on his performance or to make him the swing tackle. Therefore, the Broncos will cut him before finding a replacement. Sambrailo’s future depends on the replacements the Broncos bring in and what he does during the offseason.

            It’s fair to say Sambrailo hasn’t lived up to expectations, but that doesn’t mean he’ll be cut before Stephenson.

          • Yahmule

            The more I think I about it, the more I’m convinced that the Broncos have really mishandled Sambrailo and jeopardized his career in the process. He was drafted as a project who was universally regarded as not yet strong enough for the NFL. A redshirt season spent mostly under barbells was the expected course of action.

            Unfortunately, Ryan Clady got injured and the team made a panic move. They threw Sambrailo out there and, not surprisingly, he tore his shoulder labrum, likely trying to halt the bull rush of some physical freak who was way out of his class at that point. I mentioned in a post below that labrum injuries take a long time to recover from fully. Ty’s reluctance to extend his arms was a clear sign that he was not back to even remotely full strength and we ran him out there anyway to get abused by opponents and fans alike. I hope Schofield is telling him that it gets better.

            One thing that frustrates me is many fans literally do not understand the concept of a project player and that a guy can look like shit as a rookie and be a mainstay by year three. It makes me mad when the team can’t even seem to remember.

          • pubkeeper

            See Baktiari of the Packers. They showed patience and persistence with him and he’s had a great year. Even my 15 yr old says football fans are too quick to drop the axe on players.

          • GrizzlyB

            Just for clarity, Sambrailo hurt his shoulder late in the game against Detroit by landing on it wrong while executing an open-field cut block, on a WR screen if I remember right.

            And I personally would be down with Sambrailo as a project player had we not drafted him in the 2nd. I don’t think he can’t improve, and I certainly wouldn’t cut him before he even gets to this season’s training camp, as I’ve seen some people posit, but at the same time, hoping he’ll improve is more a leap of faith at this point than a projection. At least in my opinion, since I haven’t seen anything in particular that he can build on, unlike, say, McManus (to use a recent example of a guy who turned a corner after everyone wanted him tarred and feathered).

          • Yahmule

            He has good size and good feet, so I wouldn’t say there isn’t a foundation to build upon. I don’t know anybody who particularly liked the draft pick at the time, but the cost of acquiring him is already sunk and shouldn’t have any influence on how they proceed with him. Ball was a second rounder who got cut, but Montee had demons and as far as I can see, Ty has not lacked for effort. The fact that he was able to pick up the system and start as a rookie, however poor the result, shows me he came to camp serious about contributing.

          • BlackKnigh

            Sorry to be so late to the party – but he was LT at CSU. Like you said – he has good size and good feet – the makings of a good to very good LT. I hope that they give him time to get stronger and healthy.
            With the skill set of OL players coming out of college – I am wondering why the league doesn’t allow the teams to carry 1 more player – and OL player – who is too talented to make it through waivers to the practice squad but should be red shirted for a year. It seems like the gap between OL guys being ready to play is larger than in the past. Maybe I got spoiled by Clady in 2008.

          • Yahmule

            I would be surprised if Sambrailo doesn’t get an injury Mulligan. The team really kind of screwed him by throwing him out there when he clearly wasn’t right, unless he wasn’t honest with them about how he felt. Probably a little of both was true.

            He couldn’t extend his arms against pass rushers and that tells me his shoulder or pectoral was not right. There’s no way he got to the NFL with that pre-1978 style of pass blocking. It is a shame he wasn’t just redshirted. He could have spent the season rehabbing and the off season getting stronger.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Didn’t he get an injury mulligan for 2015 already? How many does a guy get? Incidentally, I think I would like to go golfing with you.

          • Yahmule

            If the guy is hurt, he’s hurt. Paradis got a redshirt season and we’re glad we showed patience. Schofield also reshirted and has progressed from unplayable to at least replacement level. He played through his ankle injury quite heroically in 2015, but a shoulder injury for an offensive lineman is not something you can just play through. Sambrailo tore his shoulder labrum last season and that injury has a long recovery time.

            I take hitters off my draft list when they try to return from labrum injuries because best case scenario is they will have no power their first season back. Adrian Gonzalez averaged 31 HR a year before labrum surgery, his first season back he hit 18. Often if just destroys their entire season, like it did for the Indians Michael Brantley, who is still a question mark for this season, more than 18 month post-injury.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            The thing about Sambrailo is he wasn’t strong enough before the labrum tear, so even a full return to health doesn’t guarantee he’ll be functional as an NFL offensive lineman.

          • Yahmule

            So why did we rush him and retard his progress?

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Out of necessity, I guess. I understand the concept of developmental player, but I still believe they have to show enough progress to justify their occupation of a roster spot. Sambrailo has not done that, in my opinion. Frankly I wonder if any team would claim him if Denver waived him. If the intent is to hold onto him as a developmental guy even though he’s not currently capable of contributing, then they should see if they can get him onto the practice squad.

          • Yahmule

            IMO, the most important thing a manager can do in any profession is try hard to put their employees in a position to succeed. The Broncos put Sambrailo in a position where he was almost certain to fail and then they did it again. I fell quite strongly that he would not get far through waivers before being claimed.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            So how much more time would you allow him to develop, knowing that after two seasons he’s still not close to being able to play effectively?

          • Broncos777

            My guess is that you are right. CSU’s offensive line coach predicted Sambrailo would be a pro bowl player for as many years as he played. I know we haven’t seen any flashes like that yet, but I think he must have talent and the injuries have been a bigger problem than we appreciate. Just speculation on my part though.

        • drewthorn

          Seems like the line goes from dumpster fire to crisis if they abandon the zone scheme entirely.

          It will be interesting to see how the Kubes-is-tragically-egotistical set is going to navigate that little paradox.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I don’t think anyone is making the tragically egotistical argument; more like rigidly-married-to-an-aging-scheme.

          • drewthorn

            I seemed to detect a lot of that around here. Regardless of the degree of that sentiment, the Broncos are right this second more zoneish than anything else. It stands to reason that the new OC absolutely must go with zone concepts until Sho, Paradis, Booker, Lynch etal retire.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            I think there’s a good chance they’ll seek an upgrade over Schofield in free agency, regardless of scheme. We’ll likely see an entirely new right side on opening day 2017. I agree Paradis is better-suited for a zone scheme, and while Booker is a fit for zone I don’t think he’s necessarily limited to it exclusively. Same goes for Lynch; he appears physically suited to run Kubiak’s scheme (or similar), but I don’t think it’s his only chance for success.

          • gobroncos

            what about Jano? I guess he could work in either Zone or Power blocking scheme, but how often to Power Blocking schemes use a FB? He showed enough flash to me to warrant finding a way to include him in the offense next year.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            FBs can be used in either scheme, but the NFL has definitely been trending away from the position for quite some time. Mike McCoy used one in SD this year, though. They drafted FB Derek Watt in April and he played 141 offensive snaps. I think/hope whoever Denver hires will find a role for Janovich.

          • RSH, Esq.

            We witnessed firsthand how an Erhardt-Perkins offense, which deploys many power and angle blocking plays, used a fullback in Denver’s Week 15 game against New England.

        • gobroncos

          I tend to agree with Morris. Our RT play was so abysmal this year that it’s worth going in a different direction. Even if we think Donald has a chance, I still think Denver will cut him or to rework a deal more commiserate to his level of play rather than one of the top 10 paid players on the team. That’s just ridiculous and it also sends a message to the rest of the players that mediocre play will not be tolerated or rewarded.

  • QDoc

    I know it’s been said before, but it bears repeating: regardless of who we hire as HC (of the top 3), we need to have at least one experienced coordinator around him.

    If it’s Shanny and he brings along McDaniel as his OC, great. But he damned well better keep Wade around.
    If it’s Joseph… he’d be advised to keep Wade too. But if not, then McCoy makes sense for OC because he’s experienced and can at least be a sounding board for the HC-related stuff.
    If it’s Toub… same thing.

    A bad scenario is something like Shanahan/McDaniel/Woods. Not saying those guys can’t be good. But as a team, that would be a very low-experience group. I’d be nervous about our next few years with the lack of experienced leadership.

    • The Color Orange

      I’m guessing if Elway had a wet dream coaching staff it would be Joseph HC, Phillips DC, Shanahan OC. God that would be awesome.

  • The Color Orange
    • SterlingMalloryArcher

      Injuries to Keenan Allen and on the offensive line contributed to their problems for the last two seasons, but it’s not like he’d be walking into a great situation on the OL here, either.

      • RSH, Esq.

        And when Rivers had a healthy Allen, it made a huge difference.

        When the season began, San Diego Chargers quarterback Philip Rivers braced himself for a rocky transition. That’s the way coaching changes go: Comfort dissolves, even in favor of the greater good, and players settle in for a long road back to relevance.

        Which is why, when Mike McCoy replaced Norv Turner before this season, it was natural for Rivers to expect a difficult year. Instead, McCoy’s first order was to center his offense on Rivers’s comfort, tailoring a no-huddle offense to the 31-year-old passer’s intelligence and ability to adjust. And through seven games this season, Rivers has built one of his best seasons and a 111.1 passer rating, second only to the Denver Broncos’ Peyton Manning.

        “He’s the Philip Rivers that, four years ago, you were like: ‘Oh, boy. This guy is a handful,’ ” ESPN analyst Herm Edwards said by telephone Tuesday. “He’s playing at that level again.”

        https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/philip-rivers-is-rejuvenated-under-mike-mccoy-as-chargers-prepare-to-face-redskins/2013/10/29/6cb5aca8-40e5-11e3-a624-41d661b0bb78_story.html?utm_term=.4c54207e1818

        • The Color Orange

          I wonder if a return of McCoy would mean a return of Magazu. I don’t remember being wowed by him, but he seemed better than Barone.

      • The Color Orange

        It will be interesting to hear what his plans are for the offensive system and Paxton Lynch. Lynch seems to be a slow learner and said after the season that he really hoped that the offensive terminology didn’t change. Elway obviously drafted Lynch with the Kubiak offense in mind; I’m not sure that Erhardt-Perkins, which is McCoy’s favorite offense, is ideal for Lynch.

        • RSH, Esq.

          Lynch may be able to grasp the Erhardt-Perkins offense better. There is far less memorization involved and much more spread and shotgun sets, particularly in the more modern variations of that offense.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Yeah, having only been exposed to one NFL offense to date, I’m not sure Lynch knows what’s best for him. If he has trouble grasping the terminology, the lengthy play calls associated with the West Coast Offense would seemingly be harder for him to learn, and much different than his college spread system with single word calls.

  • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

    ODB jr is just so damn “passionate”, punching holes in the walls, and stuff.
    https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/41a015462ff38029371b0386644e1d063f3b5d696de3ee50f50b989c87eca082.jpg

    • Yahmule

      “Oh fame, you two-edged sword!”

    • RyanHennigan

      Ugh, I get told I look like Rodgers about once a month.

      • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

        That can be really good in some circles, and bad in others.

      • gobroncos

        See if you can get a date with Olivia Munn.

        • RyanHennigan

          Not a bad idea. I also live in Chico, CA (Aaron’s home town) so I should see how far I can take this.

  • RSH, Esq.

    Again, so much conjecture and speculation currently.

    https://twitter.com/AndyKOASports/status/818508080161914880

    • Andrew

      My sources are telling me Eric Mangini is a sneaky dark horse candidate ;).

      • Kush-Lash

        The stories from Nate Jackson’s book alone would make me temporarily disown the franchise if they hired that fool.

    • I feel like if one guy – like Marvez – says the top choice is Joseph, another guy – say Legwold – comes out with the opposite. You’ve got a 1/3 chance of looking like a true insider, with unparalleled knowledge of the Broncos. If you’re wrong, oh well. Like predicting the weather I suppose. It’s surely all driven by the agents too.

      • The Color Orange

        Then I guess I’ll go out on a limb and say Dave Toub is the front runner.

  • RSH, Esq.

    Muggsy Bogues is 52?! Where does time go?

    https://twitter.com/ThePostGame/status/818515694404833280

    • Nick

      One of the best pictures ever taken in the history of mankind.

    • FarAwayBroncoFan

      And Manute has been dead for at least five years…. I wonder if time passes more quickly as we age…

  • RSH, Esq.

    Thankfully, no one here is pining for Jeff Fisher, as some absolutely deranged Broncos’ fans have on Twitter. I like this guy’s response to such idiocy.

    https://twitter.com/BrendenSchacher/status/818515636313653248

    • Andrew

      He’s the man we need to take 9-7 to 7-9.

  • Nick

    It didn’t take me long to get sick of both the backlash, and the backlash to the backlash, from the Giants players on that damn boat. My ice cold take: the Giants were going to get destroyed no matter what happened in the week before the game.

    • Andrew

      I think if DRC stays in the game things could have gone a lot better for the Giants his replacement got worked.

      • Jeremy

        I miss that guy.

    • G Mik

      Haters gonna hate hate hate hate hate. Players gonna play play play play play. I mean, it’s just that simple.

      Really people love to pile on and any and all excuses at which they can use to justify their crappy lives and throw shade on someone else while sitting behind a monitor to make themselves feel better is going to happen.

    • Snipe

      Yes, but when Beckham dropped some passes and they lost, they pretty much lost the ability to say that the little trip didn’t affect them, whether it had anything to do with the outcome or not.

    • RSH, Esq.

      Odell Beckham, Jr. sure looked refreshed and focused from taking his Florida trip. πŸ™‚

  • Jeremy

    Just realized I had full access to PFF grades still. Here’s how the Broncos offense ranks.

    Siemian: 32/36

    CJ Anderson: 46/61
    Devonte Booker: 54/61
    Justin Forsett: 61/61
    Andy Janovich: 6/16

    DT: 25/119
    Sanders: 14/119
    Norwood: 113/119

    Virgil Green: 31/67

    Stpehenson: 81/81
    Okung: 38/81
    Garcia: 41/74
    Schofield: 51/74
    Paradis: 1/40

    I really feel the Offensive line problems was primarily a RT problem.

    • Andrew

      Yeah if you could plug in even a slightly below average guy for Stephenson it looks a lot better.

    • Alaskan

      Overall, those are some pretty ugly numbers.
      DT, Sanders and Paradis are the only top quarter guys.

    • The Color Orange

      Did you read this article that was linked below? RT was a problem, but certainly not the only problem. http://www.profootballrumors.com/2017/01/top-3-offseason-needs-denver-broncos

    • Snipe

      Pretty impressively terrible. In this case the chain not only has a very weak link, but several other fairly weak links. πŸ™‚

    • Broncos777

      Just my take… On the right side, both players were terrible, but my opinion is that RG was the biggest problem because the RG was giving up so much penetration that the QB couldn’t step up and HAD to step back right into the guy the RT was blocking. So, no matter what, the RT was going to lose. Also, both players seemed incapable of run blocking, but the RG was particularly inept. I think the problems on the left side were probably mostly Garcia struggling and making it hard for the LT to do his job too, but Okung had his lapses as well.

      • Broncos777

        To add… the left side might be salvageable, but if I could only fix one piece (assuming Paradis will be back), then I would spend real money on an RG if a good one is available.

  • Commenting generally on the coaching search, all the talk ranging from “just fix the offense” to “bring back Wade Phillips” is overlooking the simple fact about what John Elway is really looking for in a coach: Somebody who can do a good job communicating with players, coaching them up in general, and working with his staff while soliciting input from said staff and communicating well with the front office to provide input on personnel.

    John Fox was hired not to “fix the defense” but to provide a coach who most players indicated they loved playing for, would communicate well with them, and worked well with a staff and a front office. His parting of the ways came because Elway thought the Broncos weren’t prepared well for the playoffs, leading him to hire Gary Kubiak, who had the same traits with regards to communicating well with players, staff and the front office and was a coach who most players loved to play for.

    Therefore, the criteria Elway is going to concern himself with for the head coach is not simply who will fix the offense or will bring a certain staff member back. It’s going to be who he thinks can do the best job of communicating with everybody and who will be somebody the players will want to play for. Sure, he will expect the coach to hire a good staff to improve the offense, but Elway isn’t going to insist the head coach be an offensive-minded guy; only that the head coach find the right person to be offensive coordinator, O-line coach, etc.

    All three candidates getting interviews will be first-time head coaches if they are hired. We have no idea what any one of them will do or if any of them will be qualified beyond the previous coaching positions they have held, until they actually get a couple of years as a head coach under their belts. But one thing we all know: If that new head coach doesn’t do a good job relating to players or communicating well with the staff and front office, he’s not going to last.

    • pubkeeper

      Well put. I would add that I think Elway is looking for someone who will NOT be a head coach/coordinator. I think he conceded head coach as playcaller to Kubes as a friend. Now, he’s looking for someone who will be willing to NOT call plays. I don’t know how Shanahan will feel about that. I think he will want to call plays.

    • Yahmule

      I preface these comments by stating Shanahan was and still is my first choice for many of the same fairly obvious reasons the majority of the board prefers him. John has hired and fired a lot of coaches dating back to his dad’s old pal Bob Beers, who knew John before he took a snap in high school.

      From the very superficial amount of information I have to work with, it seems to me like Joseph’s personality is similar to a Gary Kubiak or perhaps a Tom Jackson who was a holler guy on the field, but is a much more reflective

      • It’s known that Kyle and Mike can’t work together?

        • Yahmule

          That’s what Kyle says here in the same article where it’s noted he expressed frustration that the team decided to move on from Griffin to Cousins and says he had “zero involvement” in that decision. Not a real healthy relationship when the QB gets benched and the OC has no say so whatsoever.

    • The Color Orange

      I can’t verify this because I’m not local, but I’ve read that some of the usual suspects on Denver radio are saying that Elway wants to have input on gameday rosters. When I read in the press that Denver wants someone who will “communicate well with the front office,” I wonder if that’s a euphemism for Elway having say on the gameday roster. That’s the kind of thing that could become toxic unless it’s clearly communicated at the time of hiring that Elway intends to assume that role.

      • If it’s the “usual suspects” on game day radio, I’d take it with a grain of salt.

      • drewthorn

        Crazy convenient.

        “Megalomaniac GM and his yes man bitch” is a narrative with a robust set of legs. That stuff should resonate indefinitely.

        It’s amazing how they don’t even need to know who a guy is to start discrediting him. It’s actually rather brilliant against the context of their mission.

        • The Color Orange

          On the other hand, you can only watch Jordan Norwood trotted out so many times before it starts to have the ring of truth. And it was reported around the time of Fox’s demise that there was tension between Fox and Elway about not playing Elway’s draft picks.

          • drewthorn

            What is the connection between Norwood and Elway? Seems he’d more likely to insist on Latimer if that is how he rolls.

          • The Color Orange

            Exactly. I meant that it’s possible that Elway could no longer stand watching players like Norwood dragged out week after week and that’s why he wants input.

          • drewthorn

            OK. I thought you meant the opposite.

            I’d like to think that they are just trolling with the game day roster stuff. That’s a type of micromanagement that rarely ends well. It could lead to the best candidates in the future having little interest in a Denver vacancy.

          • To me, this sounds more like Elway wondering why a coach won’t make a switch in the lineup when somebody is struggling. Going back to Fox, I would suspect any questions about starting Michael Schofield had less to do with Schofield himself as it had to do with Chris Clark struggling at right tackle and Fox not just replacing Clark with Schofield, when Fox instead moved Vasquez and Manny Ramirez (also struggling) one position over and Will Montgomery to center. I think Elway would have preferred to see Montgomery and Schofield replace Ramirez and Clark, though I don’t think he was insistent upon it.

            As for Norwood, Elway re-signed him in the offseason when he could have just let him depart, so I doubt Elway was insisting that Norwood had to be benched. He may have wondered if they could try somebody else out as return man, but I think anyone trying to make out those personnel decision as Elway trying to micromanage are exaggerating for effect.

            The truth is, just about every guy added to the Broncos roster is a John Elway decision because he gets final say. He may take input from coaches, but if he disagrees with a suggested free agent signing or draft pick, he can say no.

          • Snipe

            Seems unlikely to me also that he’s micromanaging who gets played and where.

          • G Mik

            While I would tend to agree, we all know how competitive Elway is and I wouldn’t be surprised if he meddled in all aspects. It is really really hard to sit back and not doing anything when you believe something needs to change. That’s how I feel and Elway is 10x more competitive than I am.

          • G Mik

            As far as Norwood is concerned the team clearly wasn’t trying hard to resign him and only did so after the player didn’t have other options. He was great in the SB and played well down the stretch for us so why not bring him back on a team friendly deal? It wasn’t until this year that he started to play poorly so citing that Elway resigned him may not be a strong example to the contrary. That was well before he went in to the tank. I would think Elway doesn’t suffer fools for long and Norwood was a fool this year.

            Further, I’m sure Kubes and Elway had their differences and that is why Kubiak was such a great hire. He would meet Elway head on and Elway respected him enough to listen even if they didn’t agree. If we don’t have a Coach that’ll do that we could be in trouble. Then again, maybe Elway knows best. He is a much different GM than any other, even Ozzie.

          • RSH, Esq.

            Could not have Elway just made the execute decision to waive Norwood at any point this season?

          • Alaskan

            Another brilliant auto-fill.

          • bradley

            C’mon. Elway has and had input. If he thought Norwoood sucked he could have and would have talked to Kubiak about it. They would have had a frank discussion and both of them would have gone about their business.

          • Yahmule

            I think Norwood stuck around longer than anybody wanted to see because he had the most familiarity as slot receiver.

          • drewthorn

            I’m always at a disconnect with those debates because I can’t sufficiently imagine Kubiak thinking to himself, “We’re just too good in the slot. How can I fuck that up?”

            There is probably a reasonable explanation north of: Our coach is a hopeless asshat who prefers his football bad.

          • Yahmule

            That explanation being it was a personnel limitation.

          • Broncos777

            Norwood is a coach’s kid, and brings a lot of the things you would expect. My impression is that he’s smart, hard working, dependable, disciplined, etc. I think those things swayed the opinion of the staff until he actually fumbled a few times and proved that he actually couldn’t be counted on. He was until he wasn’t basically.

          • Andrew

            Yeah I have no idea if there’s any truth to it but if I was Elway there would be a real element of frustration with some of the scrubs we’ve watched play over draft picks in recent years. When I was watching Tavares King play relatively well yesterday I couldnt help but think about past and present waste of roster spots at WR(cough cough Caldwell cough Norwood etc).

        • Yahmule

          Imperious Elway talk dates back to his refusal to bow down to the anti-QB.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        I don’t know about that…. But I think it could be code for, sometimes uber loyalty to a player is not always the best thing for the team…

  • The Color Orange

    If McCoy comes on board, I wonder if former Bronco Jeff Davidson would be in line for OL coach. http://www.chargers.com/team/coaches/roster/jeff-davidson

    • RSH, Esq.

      I would be more than fine with Davidson or Dave Magazu as offensive line coach and Ken Whisenhunt as tight ends or quarterbacks coach, if Whisenhunt does not land another offensive coordinator position.

      • Broncos777

        I think the system Pittsburgh runs would be a good fit for Lynch. He is often compared Big Ben when being projected. Whisenhunt might be a good coach for Lynch. I actually think SD made a mistake letting McCoy go. His first 2-3 years the team lacked talent at key positions-especially offensive line–and it has truly been snakebit with injuries.

        • BlackKnigh

          I agree with your assessment of SD leaving McCoy go. He really didn’t have a helluva lot to work with and I thought he did pretty well with what he had.
          Whisenhunt IMO is a good OC and a good pickup for whomever gets him.

    • Yahmule

      Least he could do after getting Elway killed repeatedly as a player.

  • The Color Orange
  • The Color Orange
  • drewthorn

    I wonder why Matt Russel never seems to get his tires kicked? The other day, Florio expressed dismay that Reggie McKenzie’s right hand isn’t on the 49ers radar. That’s after one good season.

    Denver’s pro player personnel department has been fantastic under Russell, and they had some pretty salty draft classes when he ran the college shop. Yet he never gets so much as mentioned as a viable GM candidate.

    • G Mik

      I agree. I think he was a hot name prior to the DUI but since… nothing.

  • Nick
  • Jeremy

    Anyone else feel weird about taking a coach from a rival? Not that it should actually factor into the decision, but I’m used to us being the alpha dog everyone is trying to emulate and steal from. I don’t like being on the other side.

    • The Color Orange

      I’d be fine taking Belichick.

      • gobroncos

        No way. Screw that cheater. We’re better than that!

  • Rhett Rothberg

    General comment on the “speculation” meme here today. Couldn’t comment in real time so I had to stew on it…

    I was mulling this over in the context of what the “values” of this site are…for me at least. I would say a short version is:

    “It’s not about the Broncos and it’s not about you….it’s about “me”. (This is the royal me in this case…)

    Why do we come here? Why do we type out hundreds of comments each day?

    Is it to flex our brain muscles and try show each other that we are right? Dear gawd, I hope not… Go to MHR or the Denver Post comments section if that’s your thing…

    Is it to put forth policy that upon being written is sure to be immediately enacted by the team? Clearly not… (Although I have some suspicion that one of you is John Elway)

    Is it to change others people’s minds and make them think the way we do? That’s the visceral approach to human debate…. But we are better than that I think. Animals have visceral reactions…humans are able to ruminate on those visceral reactions and ask why…

    So maybe it is some of those things. But what I (me, myself) would hope is that we all come here in good faith, using the community to try and improve our explanatory model of the team we root for.

    What other purpose is there?

    So it should be ok to speculate… It should be ok to put your ideas out there, have them attacked and refined… It should be ok to do the same to others ideas… It should be ok to be wrong…a lot….

    We are not journalists, we are not front office personnel, we are not scouts… Our opinions in the end matter to no one but us. We are just fans, all who do their fandom in their own way…trying to understand why that team, which tugs on certain emotional strings, is doing what it is doing….

    • RSH, Esq.
      • Rhett Rothberg

        Tod is so silly…. πŸ™‚

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      I am actually John Elway, and I’ve been meaning to talk with you Rhett. Zip it bro. You know too much, and you know what happens to people who know too much.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        ….and now we know who shot Bobby Humphrey…

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          Well done.

    • Snatch Mouth

      Sheer entertainment in an environment of people with a similar end goal…Denver Broncos Super Bowl Champs

    • Snipe

      When you put it that way, seems almost pointless to post (although you are probably correct). I like people posting things otherwise I wouldn’t get much Bronco information and almost everyone knows more about football that I do, so I get to learn something new every day.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Maybe I’m not making my point well… I’m saying that any idea should be presentable here and then up for good faith debate and discussion…

        • gobroncos

          But isn’t that what mostly goes on?

    • Yahmule

      You have a persecution complex.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        Clearly

        • Yahmule

          Layman’s diagnosis, I admit. Just going based on how dramatic you get whenever someone challenges any kind of sophistry that’s submitted.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I just like to debate, my friend. And debate goes south (in discourse and productivity) I think when people are debated over the ideas. That’s all… Over-reaction? Maybe, probably, maybe not … Don’t know.

          • Yahmule

            I don’t see how it’s fair for a radio personality (and what an oxymoron that is most of the time) to speculate that players or coaches are lazy, stupid, egotistical, gutless or selfish, but it’s out of bounds to point out the rather base motivations of the people making these claims.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I agree… And for the most part, I don’t see where that has really happened… The Emmanuel Sanders thing….I guess… But let’s be honest, there are a couple of incidents that haven’t shown him in the best of lights this year.

            Per drewthorn’s comment above, it’s not fair to savage these guys unfairly… But I don’t see a lot of folks rushing to Jordan Norwood’s aid on here either….

            it’s a fine line…

          • Rhett Rothberg

            But my comment was mostly about speculation in general and the fact that without it, of what use is much of what we do around here…. it is, in my estimation, the very lifeblood of the NFL….

    • Royalwithcheese

      The royal me? But I’m already royal.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        An unstated assumption

      • gnasses

        But, we’ll never be royals. (Royals) It’s just not in our blood.

    • drewthorn

      For the record, there is a big difference between Joe Fan speculation and the flimsy and often mean spirited speculations of people who claim access to the team, and who have implied expertise and credibility on the subject. When the latter is regurgitated here in all its splendor, it’s bound to be confronted.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        And that’s fair of course… and I’m trying to tamp down the mean spirited part, so if that is being done by some media person, then I guess it’s fair to point that out. I just try (imperfectly I’m certain) to confront the idea, unless the person is doing some sort of real, actual harm… Which perhaps I am naive to…

        • drewthorn

          For what it’s worth, I have a loved one that was occasionally flayed by cynical pundits for entertainment and public has the right to know purposes. While their baseless speculations were plausible, it didn’t make them less fair or less painful to the real human being who was targeted. That’s the best explanation I can give for my admitted hypersensitivity regarding the practice.

          • Rhett Rothberg

            I get it… and that’s fair. I don’t think anything that focuses on an athlete’s personal life is in bounds…

            But when your profession is pretty much one where you are paid lots of $$$ to essentially be the one who exerts yourself the most….well, if there is an exertion problem, I think its fair to comment…

            Now, as far as speculation goes, again, there’s two sides… Human decency and intellectual honest cry for fairness… But the NFL, the biggest reality show on the planet, begs on its hands and needs for publicity, for comment, for discussion……for dollars…. The other side of that previously mentioned coin is part of the bargain as well…. Again, a very fine line…

    • Kush-Lash

      Well said. For the record, I come here just to make sure I’m not psychotic for incorporating the Mile High Salute into my daughter’s bed time routine (kiss, hug, Mile High Salute).

    • gobroncos

      I am NOT John Elway!

  • Nick

    I missed this tweet but I had similar speculation:

    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/818443464744562689

    If Joseph really impresses on Tuesday, I wonder if the Broncos will even let him get out of Denver.

    • What’s the point of that tweet? Guys just tweeting to tweet. Is he breaking any news, sharing anything new?

      • Yahmule

        Ian has tweeted 116,000 times. You decide.

  • RSH, Esq.

    I really miss Dave Krieger’s and Dave Logan’s radio show.

    https://twitter.com/DaveKrieger/status/818583477750624256

    • Oh shit I sent that to the wrong place – sorry Dave!

  • In checking to see if Yahmule was correct that Rapoport has tweeted 116K X, I found this one interesting given Denver let him get out of the building (hard to argue with the decision given SB50) and there have been some comparisons of Kyle Shanahan to Gase:
    https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/818216573739667458

    • G Mik

      If Elway knew Kubiak would be out of the building in 2 years he may have made a different decision. who knows? But I agree with the results of last year that in other words – whatever! We got ours!

      I hope Gase gets one some day but as good of a coach as he may turn out to be that could still elude him as it does most.

      • Rhett Rothberg

        It was telling to hear Elway talk about Kubiak in the farewell press conference… He made it sound like he knew there was a good likelihood that Kubiak wouldn’t last long in the job….

        • G Mik

          Maybe you’re right but I can’t believe he imagined it would be this short-lived. He may have recently started thinking that way once Kubiak had the heart problem again. Who knows, but good point.

        • I think he really had to convince Kubes to take the job… he was ready to settle in Balt. as OC for 3-5 yrs. and then retire. He was already building a house there. So, I speculate Kubes said he’d do it but no guarantees as to how long he’d last, socially given prior health scare.

        • BlackKnigh

          I think Elway knew that Kubes could take this team over the top. It wasn’t as strong as he would have liked – but I think his gut told him that Kubes could do it. And in 2016 – just a few plays going the other way – Denver would have been playing Pittsburg or maybe Houston.

    • Rhett Rothberg

      It’s interesting to hear the comments of Dr. Rick Perea, the sports psychology guy who works with Denver team and with Miami this year as to how he saw Gase… He was a real supporter…

    • Jeremy

      It will be interesting to see how they come back next year. I still feel they were much worse than their record would indicate. statistically they had one of the easiest schedules, and they got lucky in several regards (playing Pit and SEA when they were struggling, playing NE with No Brady). Their last 8 wins came against Buf (x2), Jets (x2), SD, LA, SF, and Arizona, all who had very disappointing years. Next year their schedule looks a lot tougher, as they are matched against the AFC West and NFC South, along with games against Bal and Ten (but these are always hard to predict). All this combined with a likely loss of VJ, could lead the team taking a step back in their progress.

      • Nick

        They may not make the playoffs next year, but at least the good news is that with the Bills and Jets looking like dumpster fires right now they should finish no worse than 2nd in the AFC East. The bad news, of course, is that thanks to the Patriots they likely aren’t finishing better than 2nd, either.

  • The Broncos should leave well enough alone: http://milehighsports.com/broncos-leave-well-enough-alone/

    • G Mik

      While I agree….. if Wade is trying to be the highest paid DC that changes things a bit. This is one of the most talented Defenses in the NFL and they spend a lot of money on that side of the ball so I understand their pause if they don’t believe they should have to pay top dollar.

      • Russ

        As a fan, it’s one thing knowing that your roster spending is constrained by a salary cap, so it’s excusable, in a way, when you can’t or try not to sign big-name free agents. But I have a hard time relating to front offices that refuse to spend money on proven coaching commodities. It just seems a little foolish to nickel and dime your way out of a situation you know is working well. (Is the money you save really worth it? Is your goal to win SB’s or not?)

        • Rhett Rothberg

          Whenever that kind of stuff comes up… It always brings to mind that urban legend that the Broncos are a somewhat cash strapped organization…

        • G Mik

          I disagree with Rhett. I believe the Broncos are more cash strapped than most franchises. Having a $2b valuation is nice, if you’re selling. I’m sure they make a healthy profit annually but you can easily chew in to that with Coaching and Front Office personnel. Hard to imagine where $25m-$45m would go, but hey it’s not my money.

          The point is that you still have to manage to a budget. Otherwise where do you stop? But I think I agree with you in that you don’t draw the line at Wade Phillips. I’d also be surprised if he wouldn’t rather be here than somewhere else outside of Washington (his Son coaches TE’s there).

          So maybe that gave Elway pause (as I phrased it) but it doesn’t mean he won’t negotiate to the right price for Wade. The big question is – does he make his new Coach hire Wade or does he let his new Coach pick his DC and OC? That’s probably the real question. Not the coffers.

  • RSH, Esq.
    • Nick
    • The Color Orange

      Schefter: “Kyle Shanahan is the best play caller in the NFL.”

      • RSH, Esq.

        The multi-million dollar question spread over a number of years, however, is do the Broncos want Kyle Shanahan to call offensive plays? If he does call the plays, how will this work out for him in his first stint as a head coach? If the Broncos were just hiring Shanahan to be the offensive coordinator, this would be a slam dunk decision.

        • The Color Orange

          As Schefter pointed out, Mike Shanahan called the plays for a number of years before handing off the responsibility. That worked out O.K.

          • RSH, Esq.

            But it has not worked out for many offensive coordinators who became head coaches recently, including to some extent, Gary Kubiak. Whatever the Broncos’ brass decides, I am fine with, but there are interesting drawbacks to each of the coaching candidates.

        • Interesting cause he was available two yrs. ago but Kubiak opted for loyalty and brought Dennison with him as OC when he could have hired Kyle Shanahan.

      • Broncos777

        Reminds me of the days when Elway called Mike Shanahan the most aggressive play caller he’d ever seen.

    • Sounds good for those in the KS camp, but keep in mind Schefter is very close with Mike Shanahan, and co-authored Shanny’s book.

  • RSH, Esq.

    Brian Billick discusses the difficulties of interviewing for a head coaching position, while the team you are currently employed by is still in the playoffs.

    https://twitter.com/CoachBillick/status/818600686275465216

  • SterlingMalloryArcher

    I’ve begun work on my draft preview, and while the first position I break down thoroughly will be offensive tackles one name at another position that has caught my eye is Washington WR John Ross. He’s listed at 5’11” 190, and might be a little smaller than that. He projects well in the slot, is blazing fast and scored 4 KR TDs in his college career. He scored 17 total TDs this year, and if he lights up the stopwatch in Indy during the combine he may not last until #20, but McShay currently has him at #21 in his top 32, which is right in Denver’s range. If there’s no tackle available that is commensurate with the 20th pick they could do a lot worse than John Ross. Here’s some highlights:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gnz6MPmtp4E

    • drewthorn

      I started the process of familiarizing myself with the draft class yesterday, and also found myself intrigued with Ross. I’ve heard a lot of worse ideas, for sure.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        From his highlights it looks like he just ran by everyone at the college level, which obviously won’t work in the NFL. I suspect his route-running could use some work, and while he’s an accomplished kick returner he didn’t return many punts in college. Still, I think he would be a very nice fit, but he may be gone by #20.

        • The Color Orange

          How do you think he compares to McCaffrey? I’m picturing a fan meltdown if we take a speedy slot/KR guy not named McCaffrey.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            Ross seems to be ranked as a better prospect overall by most draftniks at this point. He’s smaller and faster than McCaffrey. A lot can change between now and April, but right now Ross looks like a top 20 pick and McCaffrey looks like a late first or early second rounder.

          • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

            I’ve watched all of his games, and the dude is legit. Total play maker, and super fast, with great hands. I would be happy with this pick.

          • gobroncos

            One of CMC’s knocks was his size. That he wasn’t big enough for the NFL. this guy is smaller than CMC? That doesn’t bode well. Sure there are exceptions, but it would concern me drafting someone that high with a big risk like that.

          • SterlingMalloryArcher

            McCaffrey is only small by NFL running back standards, whereas Ross is pure WR. For comparison, Emmanuel Sanders is listed as 5’11” 180.

          • Alaskan

            Highlights look like a modern day Cliff Branch.
            A team could do a lot worse.

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      He reminds me of Corey Coleman. A blur off the line. I think Yahmule is pretty high on him to my memory.

      I wonder if this year’s draft will have a WR run in the low 20s like last year. I still think Williams (Clemson) will go ahead of Ross.

      • Yahmule

        Williams sure hasn’t cost himself any money tonight.

        • InSiemianWeTrust

          Good to see the goods of Leggett and OJ. Deep TE class.

      • SterlingMalloryArcher

        Williams will almost certainly go ahead of Ross. At 6’3″ 220 Williams projects outside whereas Ross will likely be a slot WR, and would fill a need for Denver.

  • Broncos777

    I thought that I would have a strong opinion on who the next HC should be by now, and I don’t. I’m still torn between KS and VJ. I will say that I have been more impressed by KS in the interviews that I have seen online. I was initially in the VJ camp, but I’m starting to think that KS would be the best choice. I like the fact that he’s been around the block and had to adapt to a variety of challenges. He comes across as very mature and thoughtful. I also think his heart is in Denver. As a Colorado native who has spent 25 of the last 26 years away from my home state and longs to return, I think KS really loves Colorado and wants to return. VJ is a CU grad and seems to feel the same way, so again, I guess I am on the fence. My sense is that returning to Denver would be a truly religious experience for KS.

    • Agreed on the interviews that are out there… KS does say um quite a bit but he comes off as natural and knowledgeable and comfortable. Joseph on the other hand seems a bit shy and hides underneath his hat pulled down almost over his eyes.

      • pardon my ignorance, but where are the interviews?

        • Someone posted a link to a couple of recent interviews/press conferences of each candidate. You should be able to find on the respective team websites.

        • bradley

          Taub in KC; Shanahan in Atlanta. VJ will be in Denver today.

    • Clifton Jackman

      Its comfort level with Vance Joesph Vs Offense scheme growth for Lynch and Simien. If Elway is comfortable with Kyle as HC, he wins. If VJ convinces JFE that he has a viable plan for Trevor and Paxton going forward He wins. Either way; it will be settled and we can all get on with 2nd guessing it!

  • Snatch Mouth
    • Russ

      Sour grapes. I am 98% confident the Broncos would have won that game with Derek Carr, and 100% healthy lungs on the team. Sour grapes, JDR. Enjoy your offseason now that you’ve gotten that off your chest.

    • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

      Wow. Congratulations to the Raiders for inventing the upper respiratory infection. Real fucking pioneers.

      • What’s amazing is it took them 30 guys being sick to think maybe they have a problem and should maybe do more to stop the spread of infection. 😷

        • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

          This story is the same in every locker room, every year. Being on a Football team is probably almost as bad as having kids in terms of germs spreading like wild fire!

    • Random Anonymous Coward

      I didn’t know mediocrity was contagious.

  • Snatch Mouth

    College football is sad

    • Snipe

      I can’t watch it without thinking about the ludicrous yearly speculation that the best college football team could beat the worst NFL team

    • Rhett Rothberg

      It’s almost like cock fighting… Rich dudes battling visa participants, who are not rewarded in kind, for personal gain… Just a weird thing altogether…

      https://twitter.com/darrenrovell/status/818658045601390593

      • ElwayIsGod7

        Fuck Bear Bryant. Dig his ass up, fuck him in the bear-ass & bury him again.

      • Snatch Mouth

        Great example but they get gift bag with a Xbox for participating…cocks dont get shit but a lousy tshirt and chicken shit on their face…these guys are lucky ; )

  • Rhett Rothberg

    I still think this is a significant component of the decision…

    https://twitter.com/ProFootballTalk/status/818476092373827584

    • The Color Orange

      Maybe “a component.” If it’s a “significant component,” that’s disturbing. I don’t think Elway’s stupid, so I doubt it’s a significant component. If Joseph’s his guy, it’s not because he’s available sooner.

  • ElwayIsGod7

    For the record: FUCK ALABAMA.

  • Yahmule
    • Kush-Lash

      It’s funny, Murray wrote “I don’t think reporters and columnists who cover and comment on baseball news should be making baseball news.” Yet he finds himself right in the middle of it.
      SMH

      • Yahmule

        His primary motivation is to troll all the people who hate him. I blame the Hall of Fame for enabling this kind of bullshit.

  • InSiemianWeTrust

    So much talent on this field it’s crazy.

    • GrizzlyB

      Pretty retarded on O.J. Howard’s part to grab that screen intended for someone else, though…

      • InSiemianWeTrust

        That seems to be a play problem or coaching problem. Howard shouldn’t have ever even been looking for that ball.

  • Yahmule

    The Broncos new Twitter header is really nice.

    https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1yMHStWEAEZnSB.jpg

  • GrizzlyB

    This referee crew is really bizarre. It seems like they pretty much want to stop play and review every momentum Clemson play, even when it’s not really questionable.

    • ElwayIsGod7

      Don’t think for 1 second the updykes haven’t got the goods on every refew in the country

      • Snatch Mouth

        No Bear Bryant record tying today…you love you some Bama eh?

  • Snatch Mouth

    Lot of future pros on the field

  • Yahmule

    I love how casually Renfroe flips the ball to the ref before getting mobbed.

    EDIT: Make that Renfrow. :~)

  • Snatch Mouth

    Its Clemson and Watson can flat out play

  • Yahmule

    Nice to see a good guy like Deshaun Watson succeed.

    • InSiemianWeTrust

      Also I wonder how much the fact that he always “plays up to competition” will factor into his draft status. I know a lot of niks have moved him to the 2-3rd rounds. But he sure has “played bigger” than Goff did in college, and there a lot QB needy teams..

      • Yahmule

        Obviously he’s very bright. He’s going to graduate in three years and his athletic ability can’t be questioned. I can’t see him falling too far out of the top 40.

        • Royalwithcheese

          Any QB that can play like that vs. Bama should go in round 1. I’d be surprised if he didn’t go top 15.

          • Yahmule

            I hope three QB’s go in the top 19.

          • Royalwithcheese

            You and me both. It could happen, especially now that Trubisky declared. It all comes down to which teams like Kizer.

  • WhoShotBobbyHumphrey

    http://www.9news.com/mb/amp/sports/nfl/denver-broncos/mike-klis/the-good-and-bad-of-toub-shanahan-joseph/384582131

    Not sure if this has already been posted, but I think it’s a good, quick read about our coaching options.

    • BlackKnigh

      Thanks for the link! I am thinking that Taub would be the best choice. I did not know that he worked with John Harbaugh for 1 year. He would need to get 2 very good coordinators – hopefully retaining Wade and looking at who could effectively help rebuild this offense and run it as OC.
      I was surprised that Joe DeCamillis, the Broncos’ ST guy, was not given consideration.

    • I tend to grade Klis on the curve πŸ˜‰ but yeah thought that was a pretty solid breakdown of each guys pluses and potential minuses. (I do think with VJ it’s important to remember he used to be a QB so he’s not a total neophyte when it comes to offense. ) It doesn’t really settle anything for me, I still see how each would be a solid choice, and there are probably some intangibles that come out in interviews that we’re not privy to. I can see how Toub would make sense as a balanced guy. And as Klis noted we don’t know for sure who each guys coordinators will be. We will probably know all in a few days!

    • bradley

      The article highlights one of my concers about Kyle, which is Daddy. Mike still lives in denver and might comclude that he’s now the Grand Duke of the Broncos.
      I’m hoping for Taub and Wade and someone as OC.